There are 2 ways you can approach soloing – by key or by chord.
In a blues, it’s going to be in a key – and the easiest way to solo is to play the minor pentatonic/blues sound that goes with that key.
Doing a blues in A? Play A minor blues.
Doing a blues in G? Play G minor blues.
Doing a blues in D? Play D minor blues.
You get the idea… but what happens if you want to go by chord?
2 things happen, it gets a lot more interesting (read that as difficult) and the possibilities grow dramatically.
Over the I chord you can mix the I major and minor blues sounds…
Over the IV chord you can mix the I minor blues sound, the IV major and IV minor blues sounds…
While over the V chord you can mix the I minor blues, V Major and V minor blues sounds!
That’s a total of 8 different sounds instead of 1. So clearly that’s going to liven things up a little 🙂
But it gets a little more complex even than that… Let’s imagine a blues in A again and let’s think about the IV chord, the D7.
You should be able to play A minor blues, D major blues, and D minor blues… but if you play D minor blues without adding in D major blues, you probably won’t dig the sound all that much.
Well, “why not?” you might ask.
And while there’s no hard and fast reason, I think the simple answer is – because that’s not what people generally do.
We all tend to dig the sounds that we are used to hearing.. and I can’t think of any blues players that make a habit of playing just the IV minor blues sound of the IV chord… so it’ll probably sound a little weird to you.
I might be wrong, and maybe you’ll be the first to make it work – but if you’re new to soloing now is not the time to try and stake new territory (if you know what I mean.)
Instead, focus on really making things sound good the way they are usually done:
1) Play I minor the whole time
2) Play I major and minor over the I chord, and I minor over the IV and V chord
3) Play I major and minor over the I chord, IV major and minor over the IV chord, and V major and minor over the V chord.
Obviously 1 is the easiest, 2 is a little more involved, and 3 is a little more difficult still (most folks don’t really get to 3 and that’s okay.)
Most of your heroes played the minor blues almost the whole time and if it worked for them, it probably will work for you. And if it’s not, chances are you don’t need more notes, you need to make better use of the notes you’re using.
75 replies to "By Key Or By Chord…"
Good advice – I guess.
Always tricky, how to explain major/minor and when to apply (or not!) each.
Griff’s handy three color comparison chart of left and right leaning patterns allowed me to get out of my usual minor blues pattern and ear and start enjoying the major ones. (The chart is tricky as to whether the bar is present and in that the positions on the neck don’t line up with each other to easily see what to do.)
What wasn’t explained but may be useful is that the blue notes in the minor patterns are the flatted 3rd notes in the major ones.
I agree a video would help this.
I would like to see the I, IV, V7 patterns shown at one position on the neck at a time. How do we conceptualize the chord patterns changing right there where we are?
Also useful would be pentatonic patterns or chord patterns for the entire neck at once. That way we could have a set of three or more neck patterns right next to each other to see overlapping and varying notes in their various chords. Once can easily then add in the unusual but fun +5s, b9s, HOs, bends, etc.
Griff’s a brilliant teacher but I just don’t understand this one. Wish there was an accompanying video to watch him demonstrate!
have you all seen the movie called crossroads?
awesome blues movie with RYE COODER AMAZON HAS IT. FOR SALE
I would like to see a video of what you where explaining also.Thanks griffin
I Think a live video would be very helpful in understanding what you where explaining about playing lead over the 1,4,and 5
Just THANKS to all. This Griff blog was (IS) fantastic. For me, being older then dirt, and just starting to get the hang of things (4 years & counting)it’s the best confirmation that justifies my mission. Thank you
Well! I kind lost him after but, 99.
Oh Max!
99. It took me 40 year to understand that much and i still cant play a major scale.
But Max!
Yes 99 I know. I can throw in a couple of rouge notes I’ve picked up from BB and Siegfried, but it’s all bluff.
Oh Max! Don’t be like that.
Don’t worry 99. Kaos wont win. We’ll beat it in in the end. I’ve been studying Siegfried for years now. He has a habit of letting these little intricacies slip.
Yes Max. I know. I know. Its Gold.
The forces of goodness and niceness cant help but unfold from the depths of the universe.
Love from Australya to Annette and Griff.
You’re nuts
I have most of your courses.
This is a little off topic but could you please do a Bass Blues guitar unleashed course?
I have become obsessed with the bass guitar. Would like to learn slap and fingerstyle and how to get in the mix with a band on bass.
Everybody wants to be a star lead player but I feel I would have more chance to get in a band if I played bass.
You play all kinds of styles and have had the chance to make a living with your music. I know you could come up with a great bass blues,jazz,rock course.
I have quite a collection of guitars and have recently purchased a Fender American Deluxe Jazz Bass.
Thank you for this latest lesson. You are a great teacher and player
Hey Rox, Griff posted an article and reference to a friend who has a blues bass for guitar players course at this link. http://bluesbassforguitarplayers.com/?hop=playblues
I liked it enough to download, but haven’t had time to dig into it yet. Check it out and see if it’s what you’re looking for.
Good luck.
U of M for your son, then maybe you could have bgu seminar in the heartland and more of us would be able to attend..😁
No problem mister lead guy!
I will just hang back and play 1,4, &5 rhythm while you knock your self out.
I have been told the pays the same:]
Kinda lost in this topic 😌😞
I have had that question on my mind for quite a wile now , thank you very much , I think now I understand most of that , you are right it gets way more complex by the time you get to #3 , but really that’s what I would have expected , it would be a lot easier to just go with the #1 rule , but to be a great soloist you really should understand and even practice using all three maybe? , but until you can flow with all three , stick with the #1 rule , I think I get it
I am still working on music theory so I somewhat understand what you are saying Griff and also somewhat lost. I also think that if you would make a video on this subject it would be more helpful to me and I am sure others, some of whom have already asked for a video version. Thank you Griff. Good luck to your son!!!
Hi Griff, for me it is stil complicated how you describe this. What I do do on stage is simply listen to what I believe sounds well. I noticed that in a blues there are many more notes which can be played in the scale without being part of this. This is probably because they follow the rules as you describe them without me knowing these were the rules. . thnx
I am learning mandolin and read/listen to these as a lot of these translate over to mandolin obviously. I have been wondering about this for a bit now. Thanks for clearing that up.
Griff, this question has been lingering in my head for years!! I do not fully understand what you are saying and a video would sure be helpful on this. Please, please do video on this, this is the one thing I have been trying to figure out and getting real close now.
I assumed you can mix major//minor sounds over the I, IV, and V if you are playing minor blues. If you are playing major blues, then you have to stick with just major sounds and not mix in minor sounds? Is this anywhere close to correct?
I know the 5 pentatonic shapes well and realize that the shapes are the same for minor or major and it just depends where you start them (Major being 3 steps below minor) and what root notes you are using.
Praying you do video Griff!!
I sort of have it figured out in a way that pretty explains how everything works. It’s more common sense that theory, but plenty of both. First you must agree that dominant blues is played over the I, IV, and V chords using respective flat 7 along with both minor and major 3rd. That’s not rocket science… that’s just how you play 12 bar blues, and you play that way whether you know it or not.
For playing over the I chord (e.g., A7), use the A minor blues scale plus the maj 3rd. Whenever you land on the flat 3rd, just slide, hammer on, or bend up a little toward the maj 3rd. Nothin’ else to it. Theoretically, you play the A Dorian mode with an added 3rd. That means you’re mostly playing the notes of the G major scale.
For playing over the IV chord (D7), use the D major blues scale. Theoretically, you play the D Mixolydian mode with an added minor 3rd blue note. This means you’re mostly playing the notes of the G major scale.
For playing over the V chord (E7), use the E minor blues scale, similar to the way you play over the I chord. Theoretically, you play the E Aeolian mode with an added maj 3rd. This means you’re mostly playing the notes of the G major scale.
You don’t need theory to play this way. Just play like Albert King, BB King, Eric Clapton, etc… just sayin’.
Hi Mike,
You are right when you say “You don’t need theory to play this way. Just play like Albert King, BB King, Eric Clapton, etc… just sayin’.” In fact I think you can generalise and play the guitar well and compose new riffs and tunes without ever studying music theory. A friend of mine plays pretty well and he just sort of makes it up as he goes along copying tunes and playing what sounds right. He plays the pentatonic scale up and down the neck without having learned the shapes. He just sort of worked it out from scratch. However, I have found that for me learning a bit of music theory as I go along really helps me progress with my guitar playing. It helps me to make sense and remember what is likely to work and sound good. One does have to remember though that music theory is a guide and not a set of hard and fast rules. Sometimes you can break away and come up with something that sounds good even though it strays outside the guidelines. Have others experienced that?
Griff your lessons are spot on! Just what I need.
Rod (Ottawa)
Hi Hotrod, and thanks for the reply.
There is a foundation for playing dominant 12 bar blues. For blues in A7, you’re mostly playing notes in the key of G major… and that goes for switching between major and minor pentatonic or not. As Griff has said on numerous occasions, they are all the same notes. For me, knowing why standard blues riffs sound magical helps me make sense of what I hear. Classic A7 blues riffs played over the I, IV, and V chords sound “right” because the notes you play are based on the key of G major. Now there’s the major-minor rub between the flat 3rd and maj 3rd that is essential for the blues, but that’s all part of my original post.
Understanding why blues riffs sounds magical doesn’t complicate, it simplifies. I would have supplied a beautiful fingering chart that illustrates in detail how it all fits together, but that’s a step to far for most of us. Just try to play A Dorian (A minor blues scale), D Mixolydian (D major blues scale), and E Aeolian (D minor blues scale) respectively over the I7, IV7, V7 chords and listen to what happens. 🙂 It’s magic.
Oops, meant ‘E Aeolian (E minor blues scale) respectively…’ at the end the last line before the emoticon. -Sorry.
Bravo, Griff. This is deep-inside-baseball blues voodoo.
Griff’s discussed this before and it’s helped my solos get exponentially better. For everyone asking for charts and diagrams, I just have to say try it. If you already know the minor pentatonic boxes, or even just a couple of them, you already know those major boxes (move A minor Box 1 down three and it’s A Major, with different target notes. Same with all of the other boxes.)
So that means starting Box 2 on the 5th Fret of the high E string instead of the 8th Fret, like you would in A minor, makes it A Major. Layer that over the A minor Box 1, in the same position, and a lot of options start to become apparent. Same for all of the other positions.
But even this is getting too confusing, and won’t solve everything because targeting certain notes, rather than just playing a random pattern, is HUGE.
The big key, I found, is to try it and LISTEN. A lot. Then do it some more. LISTEN, LISTEN, LISTEN.
Your ear will start to hear the subtle difference that using the Major 3rd, flat 7th or 9th of the chord you’re playing over top of makes. (Without having to over think the theory.) Listening and learning to hear what these little spices can add to your solo gumbo is like a blind man suddenly being able to see.
Play with you ears and teach your fingers to follow, rather than lead. Then your playing starts to come from your heart, not just your hands. That’s when it all starts to sound like music.
Early on you asked “key or chord”?
For discussion lets say play a mix of Major / minor in box 1/2 over the I chord.
The IV chord can be played using box 4 minor in the same position. Only one note changes by a half step. The issue is how to make the transition sound good. I tried this once in front of a private instructor (music professor) and apparently offended him. He was adamant that the flat 3rd of the IV had no place in the I .
Griff?
.
I just gotta say..”Thanks Griff, this has really helped. I appreciate your dedication to helping the less educated. Myself included.
Hi Griff,
Just a brief note to thank you for all your great work…it’s a huge help to me.
Best wishes,
William (from Scotland)
Hi Griff,
It’s appropriate that this lesson has appeared as I seem to have stumbled somehow onto chord soloing over the IV and V chord and can concur that the major (box 2) sound is preferable (& easier in my opinion)…at least to my ears.
Keep up the good work.
Steve.
Thanks Griff
Extremely helpful. Thanks
I’m with several of your other respondents – a video would be more helpful
Hey Griff,
I am like Ravi, a Video lesson for explaining these Techniques makes it much easier to understand. Not yet that technical.
Michael-Sydney-Australia -Feb 2016
Thanks Griff, This very question has been perculating in the back of my head for a while now….probably slightly embarrassed to ask so I just let it sit there. However, I’m somewhat relieved to see that what I’ve mostly been doing, method 1, is not wrong. I also use methods 2 and 3 when I’m in a more comfortable key such as E, playing notes over E7/A7/B7. Really appreciate your willingness to spread the joy! Thanks again!
Major / minor is always confusing to me. Eight options are offered, but not fully.
I tend to think of the scale as having positions of influence, like big planets with moons.
The I and the V notes of a scale have the most influence and so “own” their adjacent notes, which want to pull back to the I or the V note. Marvelous dissonance comes from mixing a I and a b8 or a #8 (b9), and/or or by flatting the 5 or sharpening it.
The iii and the vii notes are different because the natural harmonics of a vibrating string put the 3 and the 7 in between the equal-tempered notes such as restricted on a piano. In the key of C, the real 3 is between Eb and E natural, and a real 7 would be between Bb and B. (The major 7 gravitates to the octave if CM is used, which is way different in sound to the blues or dominate 7 as in C7, most notable in the odd but nicely tensioned C-(M7).)
I suspect singers, fretless instruments, electric guitars that easily bend, etc., all play with that sweet spot between the minor and major 3, and perhaps they also do that with the dominate and major 7.
The I, IV, V options offered here seem vague. Perhaps a single chart with preferred sounds and useable but odd sounds could be listed both for major and minor songs.
Perhaps another aid would be to list the wrong notes, the ones that sound horrible and won’t work hardly ever. Any tricks to knowing and avoiding these?
I was reading this thinking, “this is just what I think and wonder,” when I noticed it was me who had written it! And I still think and wonder the same things.
Kool stuff, you da bomb man. Answer to a question i never new how to ask. Cant emagin how complicated my old classical teacher could make it
I Agree with those friends who asked for a video lesson. for me ,I can learn better by visualization. but as always great material.
Here’s a trick which allow you to play those boxes, everywhere, much, much easier.
Play Box 1 in A (5th fret)
Now play Box 2, 3, 4 and box 5 right there. All starting on the 5th fret.
Now play it out of order in the A position, mix it up; 5,2,4,1,3 and so on.
Now play only on the E, A and D strings, every box in the A position.
Now play the D, G and B strings, every box in the A position.
Now play the G, B and E strings, every box in the A position.
You should do this from the first fret to the 12 fret.
Once you start to get this, go up the neck from fret one, box one, only on the E, A and D strings, up and down, and then move up to Box 2, then Box 3 and so on, only of the 3 bottom strings. Take this all the way to the 12th fret.
Move onto the 3 middle strings and then the 3 high strings.
Don’t forget to come down from the 12th fret as well. Coming down is as important as going up; across the fret board (1 to 12) and up and down the strings (E to E).
Teaching your fingers to recall the whole box, portions of the box, out of order, everywhere, will really set up a foundation where you’ll stop getting lost and you’ll stop wondering where to go next.
This wont make you a lyrical soloist, but it will get you past the struggle of “looking” for the notes. Typists do this type of exercise as well.
As a bonus, use this exercise to practice your alternate picking at the same time. I’ve read on the forum that guys are just letting nature takes it course regarding foundational picking tech. You shouldn’t. Get alternate picking down pat; slow at first and then build up your speed, and you’ll forever be thankful that you took the time and effort to put that to bed.
Licks are great but if you ever want to start soloing like you, get past the physical and get more comfortable with picking and strumming. Make it a priority before the bad habits take over. If they have, patiently break them.
My 2 cents.
Mark from Murrieta
I like to see that concept spelled out on the fretboard, showing every step!
Thanks Mark
Mark,
Would you be willing to make a video illustrating the concept you have written? Appreciate it, Tony
Interested, but losthe too. Could you tab it out?
This subject is very relevant for me right now. I’m getting confused between the boxes and the major minor sounds.
I read somewhere that if I just assume box 1 is minor and box 2 is major, I’ve missed the point. But I really can’t see it any other way right now.
Can you please expand on this concept for me. That would help me implement level II and level III, as opposed to level one where I would play box one for the whole solo.
Scott R- the boxes are the same for major and minor BUT it all depends upon where you start them. Let’s take box 1. It sounds like you probably know how to play box one or know the shape. If we put box one on the 5th fret and start playing it from 6th string and first finger, that is a A note and you are playing A minor pentatonic and you can play it down to the next A which is an octave away (this would be 7th fret on D string. You can keep playing it down and will end up back on a A note when you get to the high E string on 5th fret.
Now we can take that same exact box shape – box 1 and keep it at the 5th fret but instead of starting with your first finger in the 5th fret- start with your pinky in the 8th fret. This is a C note and if you play it down to the next C -that is on G string 5th fret- you have played a C Major scale octave. You can keep going down to the next octave and that is at high E string on 8th fret.
So, you should be able to visualize that this is the same box but you can use it to get Minor or Major sounds depending upon where you start and stop. You can do this with all 5 box shapes. It is all a matter of what root note you start and end on that dictates whether it is major or minor. So box 2 is not just a major box, it is also a minor box but will have a different root note to make it sound minor than it would if you wanted it to sound major.
Hope this helps you.
If it’s a simple blues song using only three chords, I find it easy to just use the different pentatonic positions for the different chords…so for a blues in A (A=I chord, D=IV chord and E=V chord) I’ll use pentatonic position 1 for the A (I) chord, then jump up to position 2 for the D (IV) chord, and position 3 for the E (V) chord…it’s really easy to do and probably makes me look and sound better than I really am…you’re moving up and down the fret board but only using three positions. It also helps sometimes to use only the E/B/G/D strings so that you’re hitting some higher notes (octave wise that is). And you can do some pretty cool walk-downs on the turnaround using only the E and B strings, possibly ending on the root on the G or D string.
Hey George,
Question …….when you indicate position 1, position 2, position 3 for the three chords are you using the same Box 1 pattern at the 3 different note (A, D, E) positions on the 1st string? Please give me your clarification.
Thanks
Dan Scharf (danscharf1@aol.com)
Hi George.
I totally get where you’re coming from with your post. I do the exact same and most of the time it sounds ok! The only thing is after a while it all sounds a bit the same. In my mind i think….I know the minor pentatoninc and some of the major pentatonic. I should learn the major pentatonic but more importantly learn the root notes. I could be totally off track here but hey….I’m a learner.
This is what I was looking for several weeks ago. Thanks Griff.
Some how I seem to play within the Key most often because it is easier. So in key of A, I will move around the 5 positions of the A minor pentatonic blues sound. At times one can get a better sound at times by playing the minor scale over the minor key ~ Am play position 1 or G position of the CAGED pattern over the Am, if it is the first chord of the key played and then work with the 5 positions of the minor scales from there. When soloing over a major key begin with the major pentatonic blues which is starting with the box 2 or the E position over the first chord if it is the first chord of the key played and work up and down from there using the CAGED system (5 positions). However I do try to stray and solo by way of the chord played. Your explanation was very helpful, Griff, but a video lesson would help even more. Thanks for the tips.
Hey Griff,
Gotta ‘ave a video demo to get the zest of this. Then it’ll make more sense to most of us.
Keep rockin’
Go that minor Pentatonic!
Go Grif!
I agree with.my friends. I think this topic deserves a video demonstration, Griff.
To all you guys bemoaning you don’t know the fret board yet pick up a bass guit and play bass for a week use the root note of the of the one chord play it let it last fog four beats play it agai as if it was a guitar chord then the next note will bee d a is on the firth fret d is on the fifth string next to a yes goth fret as well and e is on the fifth string 7th fret it’s surprising how quick you learn the fret board when you learn the bass funny enough if there’s no bass player available I get to play all night fantastic
I don’t profess to know nearly as much about theory as Griff does, but I do know
one thing that always works for me. The best way I think of to apply what the Master is saying is to use it to embellish whatever key you’re playing in. For example, my main key is minor pentatonic. However, in my studies, I’ve found that I can insertan alternate key phrase into a song and then switch back to minor pentatonic if I get lost. As an example, take the harmonic minor key. You can switch seamlessly back and forth between A minor harmonic and A minor pentatonic at any time and it will sound great. You can do the same thing vis a vis A minor pentatonic and A major. Same goes for A major and A harmonic minor. I’ve done it. It works for me, and the variables allow you to play all night long without getting into a rut. You can also mix in I, Iv, and V changes with the same results, although that is where things start to get complex.
When I say to restrict yourself to “embellishment” all I really mean is that if
you feel yourself getting lost, then you can always return to your original
pentatonic key without blowing your solo. Don’t linger too long in the alternate key. I hope that makes sense to you all.
Blues pat. seems to be the key to blues soloing. Is this a true statement?
Lets see.a video
Good advice Griff! It really is simple. If it sounds good, play it. If it doesn’t, then don’t play it. Of course if you already played it, oops don’t play it again! I had a friend that would play the sick note again just to make everyone think he played it on purpose. It didn’t sound any better the second time.
UHOH
I think what you did was to open yourself up for a demo on what you’re talking about. It would help I think if you did demonstrate it. Most of the time, putting sounds to the words make it better to understand…like a song.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I have a friend that wants me to “solo” whenever I visit him. He plays guitar pretty well – has no blues what-so-ever. So, “A and E” he says and I tried minor A blues over the I (A) and minor blues E over the V (E).
A sounds OK, E sounds awful – maybe as Griff says its not what people do.
To truly be a great guitar player you have to not only have to know every note on the fretboard, but you also must have the ability to get the most from each note. Excellent food for thought as always, Griff.
Thanks for this one. I have wondered about this for a very long time but did not know how to ask the question… Does this work for rock as well?
Great advice Griff. I think you have solved a lot of mental problem for me with this info on whether or not to change scales as the chords change in a song.
Hey Griff,
What about soloing over Major Keys/Chords?
What does Griff means by “blues sounds” above? Is it the major and minor pentatonic scales for the IV and V plus blue notes?
Good advice, thanks for breaking it down to laymen’s terms. It makes more sense now.
Ohhhhhh! I get it! Griff, you sure make it simple. Thank you.
I am in fact very interested in how all that works and the theories behind the music we make, but for me personally I just find myself poking at the fret board until it makes a noise that I want to hear, and then I memorize it and move on.
Beautifully put Griff – as ever. From the ‘chords’ side of it I’m trying to push the roots and interval positions from all 6 strings and the 5 boxes into my ageing brain (not all at once mind you) – you have provided a nice template for breaking that up and also having quality assured reference points to work with, really appreciate your work and thanks again.
Hi Griff,
For some time now I found it difficult in mixing the Major and the Minor blues sounds, I even wrote to you regarding this a few days ago and want to purchase the Major and Minor Shapes DVD Course to help me improve my playing…………
This blog/artical surely made a lot a sense to me (as usual Very Good)…
Thank you Very Much…………
Keep the Excellent work Coming.
Llewellyn (INDIA)
I find myself doing a little of both depending on the song. I play a lot in church, so many times I just solo in the key. When I do solo by note (chord), I find myself soloing in the 1 and 5 chord, with a slight passing through the 4 chord (standard 3 chord song).
Being a seasoned acoustic player but new to soloing, I find that sticking to good old box 1 & 2 works really well,If I play it well. thanks Griff, you are a great teacher!
I’ve been somewhat confused on the issue for a while. Thanks for the info, that clears my mind completely. You are a good listener as well as teacher. Thanks
I practice on level 1 using jam tracks; once in a while I delve into level 2 with the same jam tracks. I don’t know if I’ll ever get to level 3. I’m still busting out of beginner and getting into intermediate. I still don’t know the fret board like I need to. But, compared to a year ago when I started learning the pent boxes, I think I’m progressing OK. I sure struggle with playing without looking at my left hand and my right hand (natural lefty) goes spastic and misses strings on occasion. But friends who listen don’t seem to mind.
Thanks, Griff. I play minor a whole lot. Less so when it’s an Allmans song but still a lot. I like the sound but always feel I’m not doing enough.
Now I know whatever works is fine. If it sounds bad,don’t do it. I always know when I clash.
Based on what you’ve said,I don’t feel that I have to do it different just to be different. It’ll come out anyway.
I think you’ve made a typo at 3. Over the IV, play the I, since it contains the flat 7 of IV, and of course the major of that chord, IV. Just target so that you include the 3/7 of the chord to be sure.
Satan’s smiling at the crossroads, just passing out stacks of your discs. Wow. Once again you’ve managed to deliver an epiphany of eye-opening insight with utterly ridiculous simplicity. Thank you, Griff.
Hi Griff,
That’s a great basis for lots of soloing! However, I got a bit confused, is it possible for you to make a chart for each of the keys in each of the three possibilities above, guess there might be one in existence already, but I couldn’t track it down. Thanks