There seems to be a huge amount of confusion when it comes to the CAGED philosophy… both what it is, and what it isn’t.
Since this is “Blues Guitar Unleashed” I’m going to talk about it from a blues perspective. But many of the points I’ll make here you can apply to other styles of music.
Before I get too into this please understand that I didn’t learn CAGED until I had been playing a guitar for 20 years. And to the best of my knowledge the first person who used the term CAGED and really pioneered what people now call the CAGED system is Bill Edwards in his series “Fretboard Logic.”
If you know of earlier uses of this, please let me know in the comments.
I’ve gone through that book at a very cursory level… I have never studied it in depth only flipped through the pages for about half an hour. It didn’t make much sense to me how he connected a lot of things so I could not connect with it. You may have a different experience.
So CAGED is basically this – there are only 5 major chord shapes on a guitar… C, A, G, E, and D.
If you take a C chord and refinger it so that your first finger will barre the open strings, you can move it up to a C#, D, D#, and so on as long as you like.
You can do the same thing with an “A shaped” chord. These are what we commonly know as root on the 5th string barre chords.
The “E shaped” chords are what we commonly know as root on the 6th string major barre chords.
There are some kind of cool connections that happen with this in that the C shape connects to the A shape which connects to the G shape which connects to the E shape which connects to the D shape which then connects back to the C shape.
So you have these 5 chord shapes which all connect and you can put arpeggios and scales on top of them and have any arpeggio and any scale you want.
But here’s the thing, you also have 5 pentatonic boxes. They have 5 notes instead of 3, connect in the same ways, and lay on top of the same chord shapes… plus they have the advantage that you probably already know them!
The reality is that a guitar fretboard divides into about 5 pieces per octave. Whether you choose to look at those pieces as chord shapes with 3 notes or pentatonic boxes with 5 is totally up to you and really doesn’t matter much. You can put the CAGED chords on top of the pentatonic boxes just as easily as you can put the pentatonic boxes on top of the chords.
And for blues, in which we tend to use the minor pentatonic/blues sound more than the major sound, CAGED falls apart just a little because the C and G shapes are not playable when they become minor.
When I do a blues solo, do I used CAGED? Rarely.
When guys like BB King or SRV play a solo, do they use CAGED? Not that I’ve ever seen and I’ve transcribed hundreds of solos from artists like those.
Do you need to learn CAGED to play like those guys? No.
The exception to the rule for me is Hendrix. Playing in the “Little Wing” or “Axis:Bold As Love” style with his cool chord embellishments is a style of playing that goes well with CAGED chords…. but ONLY once you know how to put the chord shapes and the pentatonic boxes together.
Which… again… you can do in any order you choose.
And again, CAGED falls apart a little because certain chord shapes don’t finger once they become minor. In other words, I think there is a better approach to playing in that “Little Wing” style than going through CAGED first (and my Little Wing Lesson DVD is all about that.)
So let’s say you’re thinking you should learn CAGED. Here’s the first question… what do you want to do with it?
If you play blues and are still working on your improvising and know you still have a long way to go… now probably isn’t the time to create an entirely new mental model of the fretboard.
If you find that you are really struggling trying to remember the pentatonic boxes and how they connect, then you might find that CAGED is different enough that it makes perfect sense to you. You have to be able to judge that for yourself a little bit.
Also if you find that you need to be able to play a chord in many different ways CAGED can really help a lot with that.
I’m also a firm believer in being able to view the fretboard in many different ways… I’m just not a believer in trying to run before you can walk.
So if you’re in a place where you have the 5 pentatonic boxes down and they are totally in your fingers and you’ll never forget them and you play through them easily and effortlessly and you are looking for a new way to look at the notes on your guitar… again CAGED may be just the thing.
I hope this helps and maybe answers some questions. Feel free to post other questions below and I’ll try to keep up.
101 replies to "Blues And CAGED"
Hey Griff,
I’ ve been a guitarist for over thirty years but never took lessons. Friends showed me some open & Barre chords and I’m blessed with a pretty good ear, so I was able to learn rythems to most any rock or blues song fairly well and some leads if I went note by note wearing out the needle on my turntable. Needless to say there were gaping holes in my playing! Never learning scales was is a big one CAGED seems like an apiffany moment for me! Linking scale patterns to chords
I’m a stickler on correct spelling;thus ,” epiphany.” cheers
I find that for me, (having played for longer than I’ll admit in this response), the caged system provides another avenue to bridge me into areas of the fretboard that I (lazily) have avoided for all too many years. My primary playing is blues oriented, however, I write often based upon riffs or chords which I stumble upon when purposefully “not” trying to copy another sound or idea. In applying the caged ideas to my searching, I am opening up levels of creativity which I haven’t experienced for many, many years. I guess it is all relative to how you apply and approach the idea, but I DO like it. Thanks Griff!
Nothing like a video to make what you are saying come alive. 🙂
PS. Not that I want to lead anybody in any faulty direction, however a (probbably) very good explanation on the “Pentatonic vs Caged” issue can now be seen at the Guitarzoom members website. One of the instructors there seems to have presented a good explanation on the topic.
Griff:
I agree totally with you. It depends on if BLUES is all you are going to play or if you want other types of music. It can be a help with JAZZ/BLUES. -Fly low – William
Its funny Griff. I had a conversation recently about things like this. We have played together a few times and had a good time doing it! The conversation however consisted of the circle of 5ths, theory. My question to him was where does it end? Is there an end to the thought or the physical playing of music? There are so many ways of going about it…… My personal opinion is that i love that groove when i can put together notes and sounds that make sense to me and make others happy as well.Therefore, its continuous and ongoing… It makes a person wonder and strive to know more of this gift of music!
I first saw the caged system in a book by phil capone”100 killer licks & chops for blues guitar’.It has the licks and how to apply them,being self taught is a bit much but I am getting there.Thanks for all the tips!
I personally think that the caged systerm is a waste of time. If you know where all your notes are on the fretboard there are alternatives all over the neck. I tore my hair out trying to learn this but I am smart enough to figure out alternative ways of playing chords other than caged.
Thanks no need for more
Whistler
I am self taught, and have been playing for 35 years, but mostly as an acoustic rythem guitarist. Once I sat down and actually studied the CAGED theory, it has opened up a whole new world for me. I am able to relate virtually everything I do to the CAGED theory. I have a brother-in-law who is an incredible guitarist…one of the best I have ever seen! He is always looking at new things to broaden his already vast knowledge. He tells me about the new “patterns” he is learning, and I am always able to relate what he is telling me directly to the CAGED theory. As my experience with CAGED grows, I find that I rarely play “common” chords any more, and my arrangements of songs are far more interesting! I now understand lead guitar where it never made sense for thirty-something years. I even teached CAGED to younger students whenever I have the chance. For me, CAGED is “great understanding” where I once had little understanding!
Thanks again Griff
Every bit of guitar and music knowledge you teach me is important … Be blessed
Interesting. I’ve been taking so many lessons for over a year with you and two other on-line instructors. Recently I took a CAGED course and it explained a lot to me about what “I” did to learn to play over 30 years ago. As you are aware compared to today not as much was available then. So I put things together the best I could while investing mostly in university level engineering books and coursework. I was interested in using guitar as a stress release over the years and was not real interested in learning another “discipline”. Guitar was about freedom. Not knowing it, I learned guitar with the CAGED method and such things as “The Guitar Poster” giving me everything from the circle of fifths to the block diagrams of chords with their accompanying scales. So I learned the entire fret board and all the bar chords fairly well and was happy. Even though the pentatonic scale was available my previous experience with Coronet, French Horn, Saxophone, and “notes” lead me to the diatonic scale thinking that 5 little notes was not enough. This worked real well playing acoustic songs chords and with fills/riffs that sounded great (and still does) (forget about a riff off the 5 chord for now). When I would jam to an album it worked great for the major scale. I usually adapted by “feel” unknowing moving 1-1/2 steps to anything minor – for some reason the radio just doesn’t tell you what key songs are played in and neither do albums. For Blues I would throw down the flat 5th. It’s all good at home. Now, all that has changed as for over a year I’ve been working very hard learning the pent minor scales and applying them (here comes the riff off the 5 chord). But now I was wondering how to apply the major scale or when to play major when jamming and – the music book telling me the key wasn’t around. I was very pleased to find the CAGED lesson and see what I did for 30 years and that methods strengths and limitations. So I feel I’ve come full circle and understand a little better this tool called the CAGED system. For me after I needed humpty dumpty to fall off the wall over a year ago it’s helping me put it all together with more tools today than ever and a relief that the method I did flanked forward. I’ll continue with my lessons I’m working on and that I’ve backlogged. As soon as you or Steve comes out with a lesson merging the major or minor scales for Blues… I’ll buy it.
Good article Griff. I usually think pentatonic in blues, but was struggling in my jazz lessons until I got going in the caged concept. I see the whole (sometimes unfingerable) caged shape, but seldom play more than 3 or 4 strings at a time. In a band situation, caged has really helped me break out of the pent boxes. All I need is the chord progression chart, and I’m good to go. By the way, your blues course helped me a lot as well.
Griff,
CAGED gave me an epiphany moment, when the C.A.G.E.D shapes were demonstrated as a connected progression in each chord i.e. open G, E (3rd fret), D (5th fret) etc. This I found useful in Blues chording to give variety over a rhythm track eg play a D shape on fret 5 rather than a 3rd fret barred E.
A suggestion for colleagues who say that a barred G shape or C shape is too difficult to play, is don’t play the whole chord, i.e. in a bared G shape just play the barre and the A (5th) string.
I’m sure you can explain it better than me, if you haven’t already.
Regards to all.
Chris
Any chance of a video of the above plese Griff
Hi Griff, I learned the Fretboard Logic, Bill Edwards books 1&2, and his 3rd book on theory about a year ago, and when I got your Blues Unleashed course, I seems to me, that your course is also based on the same pentatonic scales, although with the “Blue Notes” added. Your “box 1” is Bill’s box 2, A form position and your “Box 2 is B.E’s box 3, G form pentatonic scale.His Pentatonic, Diatonic, etc. C,A,G,E,D. Your boxes are A, G, C, D, and E. fretboard position. I pretty much liked what I learned from your course, but I was expecting a little more since I thought it be more advanced. Thanks, Hal.
Thanks for putting it in perspective. I think I will stick to the pentatonic boxes until I have them mastered
i think you are right if you assume that all people are somewhat advanced, however the c a g e d sys works very well as a tool for improvising-i find bill’s “fretboard logic” to be very well organized for beginners to intermediate players-diagrams in right column ,explanation( in text form)in left column-works for me-ties chord forms and scales in to a meaningful context-and throws in arpeggio options and/or suggestions as well-there may very well be a better way but i haven’t been exposed to it-it’s a very good place to start
I’m not getting the five shapes except for 3, or how they connect or C A G E D. And I don’t know why not. I memorize the shapes but can’t seem to do anything with them. When I attempt to improvise, it all sounds the same and more like a scale than like music. Getting very frustrated. Can it really be this hard when everyone else in the world seems to “get it”?
Hi Griff. Never heard of it til’ I read your stuff about it!!!!! See what you miss out on when you are SELF TAUGHT. However, I read about it with interest and then I was discussing it with my wife, I ain’t got no-one else to talk to, (Billy No Mates), joking. I was telling her how you are supposed to Barre and then hold down the chord of G or D, impossible for me I said, holding an air barre then bending my fingers to show a G and D chord in mid air, my fingers looking like they had just been squashed in a vice. To prove the point, I picked up my Crafter acoustic, which I use firstly on all of your downloads. I then proceeded to barre and hold down a perfect G and D and when strummed, they were absolutely clear. It was then that I remembered, that many moons ago, whilst teaching myself to play, I had done this barring and chording out of curiosity to see not only if I could, but also, what they would sound like. At the time, I believed that I was doing something that I shouldn’t really be doing, as a barred G or D just didn’t look like that in my chord book, even though they sounded sweet. So, in my ignorance, I wasn’t doing anything wrong, but, I was now able to understand your discussion of the CAGED system. In my many years of comping, I have achieved some cracking sounds whilst messing about with chord changing at speed, both full and partial (cos I couldn’t do lead and solo stuff) and if it added to the piece I was playing, then I would keep it in, this included those barred G’s and D’s. However, I admit to preferring and will be sticking with the pentatonic method. Yet, since downloading your BGU lessons, I am now mainly doing what I always wanted to do, PLAYING SOLO. Have now started on the DVD course, GREAT, but, I still open and do the download lessons, so, keep em’ coming Griff. Ray (UK).
Any style of teaching if correct information is good for some people and not for others. You never know when the Light Buld in your head is coming on, So for me it’s a life time of reading all teaching styles. and get what i can from that teacher. It is a longer way but it keeps me sane and interested in learning. sorry for the babeling I love your playing and teach videos keep the jam going and love what yoy do every day. My wife is in my band to.
LOL!- CAGED is a nice idea. It is nice to extend a barre chord and play with the modes in and around the basic C,A,G,E,D caged shapes.
Griff, you taught me two valuable lessons with approaching the blues, the semi-tone under and then raise to ‘home’ chord and your excellent scale that bridges the root as a Major or Minor chord in the same scale.
For those reasons you have been like a voice of God to my poor ears and fingers!
I use the CAGED system when I have trouble hooking up a chord, or ‘partials’ to a chord!
God Bless you and keep you playing…I also loved the Red House work you posted about 5 emails ago with you playing with a band and keyboards player.
Stop by my website and sample the pure delights of my music-making!- LOL- reel29 has some nice blues jams!
Thanks ever so much.
As always i appreciate every thing you show me. You’re a very good player and the same as a teacher. There’s nothing wrong with making money as a teacher, but you truly have your students in mind.
Hey Griff,over the last couple of months you have covered some valuable topics ie.strumming (rest and ties and the CAGED system but the’re been much more. As a sort of intermediate level guitarist I have always found some very useful advice in your emails. Cheers
Having learned Caged first and later the pentatonic boxes, this was a great explanation, well written with just the right amount of detail. I usually prefer the pentatonic boxes but it depends on what I’m playing. You are talented musician and articulate teacher. Keep up the good work.
Hi Orrin,
thanks for your excellent explanation-i like to understand things and you help a lot !
All the best
Thank you for that extension, Griff.
If I may venture a comment… the human brain operates slightly differently for everyone and, at the extreme end of this spectrum, some people can grasp and memorise elements of any skill or knowledge regardless of overall context. In other words, the ultimate goal does not matter. This incorporates academics and scientists. In fact for some, the means outweighs the end.
At the other extreme, and I am one of these, unless an element of new knowledge is immediately frameable in terms of the ultimate goal achievement, I flounder and lose interest. Worse, unless the skill is immediately seen to be integral to universal reality (as I see it), learning is a real grind. This represents people of vision.
And slotted in between this spectrum of learning environments and methodologies, fits all other human beings. Culture, as anthropology tells us, adds yet another dimension; as does life experience.
This is why one music teacher or method works for one person and fails another. It’s really just horses for courses.
The really admirable thing about you, Griff, is that you are secure enough in your skills and knowledge (and, no doubt, emotionally, psychologically, and socially) to spread us students around: to expose us to other teachers, methodologies, philosophies, and techniques.
Where CAGED fits into this I have yet to discover, but I just want to express my gratitude and appreciation for the diversity of learning curves you guide us into. This makes you the ultimate teacher.
Kindest regards
Tony Ryan
Australia
Hi Griff. I can understand where you are coming from. I was introduced to the CAGED system last year while taking some private lessons. While it is definitly out of the main stream this system offers some interesting options when playing in a jam with a couple of other guitars. I have found it to be very useful in adding flavor to a song. Rather than having two or three guitarists playing basically the same chords over each other and then waiting for a turn to solo, the caged system adds an extra layer of “tone” even in the blues. So while one guy might be playing the open I, IV, and V rhythm the caged chords have a I, IV, V which can ad to the song and in a sense “broaden” the palatte. I find it simpler to narrow it down to the A, E, and D shapes. I even use it in Classic Rock songs when I jam with a friend. I let him play all the open and barre chords he wants and I fill in with caged type chords. We really get some life out of old favorites. I don’t use it all the time but when you want to be a little creative I would suggest trying it. It’s just another weapon in the arsenol.
When I read Fretboard Logic more than a decade ago, it revolutionized my understanding of the guitar. Its logical, methodical, systematic approach to explaining the guitar’s unique organization and pattern relationships (standard tuning) strongly resonated with my analytical, engineering mentality. Fretboard Logic connected the guitar with the music theory I learned from playing piano, and enables me to analyze and learn songs by ear. Someone with a background and experience different from mine might be less enthusiastic about Fretboard Logic, but I do know that when I have recommended Fretboard Logic to other guitar players, they were equally amazed by what they learned.
Having said that, as Griff pointed out, CAGED isn’t the be-all, end-all (e.g. certain minor chord shapes are unplayable). The universe of guitar skill is much larger than a single method book. I’m learning some fundamental skills (and having to unlearn some bad practices) from Griff’s Strumming and Rhythm course. And, I know some very talent guitarists who honed their skill not through reading any method books at all but by spending 8 hrs at a time practicing guitar while grounded in their bedroom as kids.
Bottom line: My experience was that Fretboard Logic, as a method, significantly lowered my learning curve to understanding fundamental aspects of the guitar. It laid a solid foundation upon which I continue to build by learning from other instructors. And I hasten to add how much I appreciate Griff sharing his skill and experience through publishing his excellent courses.
Griff, you are right. I’ve learned all five boxies and can move from #1BOX TO #5BOX TO THE LEFT OF #1, and to #2Box to the right of #1, #3 to the right of #2, to #4 to the right of #3, #5box to the right of #4 and connect to all up and down the fretboard and work them into any song. I did buy Steve Stines’ TEACHING OF THE CAGED SYSTEM and do feel that learning this system and how to use it just makes me a more valuable guitar player.
Dance with the one that brung ya!
If anyone is that bothered & seriously imagines that this particular philosophical outlook wil make them a better musician, in any sense of the term, chuck your guitar {or whatever} in the trash can & buy a Jaws Harp or perhaps an Ocarina.
Tony
Actually, the diatonic chord built on the 7th scale degree of a major key (G in your example – I’m assuming you are talking about major keys) is half-diminished (F#ACE in the key of G major). However, blues generally uses the Mixolydian mode/scale, which is identical to the major scale except that it has a flat-7th (a 7th scale degree lowered by a half step). This means that instead of the scale being [G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G], which is G major, it ends up being [G, A, B, C, D, E, F, G] – which is G Mixolydian. This makes the diatonic chord built on the 7th scale degree [FACE], which is a major 7th chord, not minor or diminished.
Think about the I chord in a twelve-bar blues in the key of G. It’s a G dominant seventh chord, right? Well, that’s spelled [GBDF], with a lowered 7th scale degree (the F-natural). The important thing to remember is that the Mixolydian (re: major and minor pentatonic/blues) scale does not have that half-step leading tone before the root like the major scale does. In fact, neither does the natural minor scale, which is very similar to the minor pentatonic/blues scale, and is also used heavily in soloing in a great many styles of music. That familiar major-key resolution of leading tone to tonic (F# to G in the key of G major, for example) is one of the strongest movements in Western diatonic harmony, and thus has been pretty much used to death over the last several hundred years. Blues doesn’t use it a whole lot.
Hi Griff,
great lesson ,and as always ,very well explained ! But i have a doubt – in the chord progression ( key of G ) why the F chord it`s not a minor chord , since is the 7th chord of the scale.
All the best and keep the good work !!!
Hi Griff, I agree with your analogy of this whole “caged system.” I’ve been playing for many years now and I never knew about CAGED. Anyway, it’s a take it or leave it system. If your new, give it a try. If you’re fairly seasoned, stick with what ya’ know and expand upon it. Guitar is a very complex instrument; more so than many people think. Yes, always keep learning, but don’t get thrown off course by some new fangeled system. I know, it’s not that new, but it is a bit of a twist. You just have to ask yourself – am I ready for it and do I need it? I say, don’t fix it if it isn’t broken. You guys know what I’m saying. Just give it some thought first before diving in!
Rock On,
Jake
This was a helpful explanation.
Thanks,
Griff, You always do and amazing job with what ever your trying to explain. But for the rest of you if you truly want to learn the caged syatem check out steve stine he is a master guitar teacher at north dakota state he is amazing. he has several courses out. so go go check him out………
Hi
By using the relative major/minor combination it is possible to use caged in both major and minor. C
Major pentAtonic is also A minor pentatonic,both scales containing the same notes.So if you remember that C major has a relative minor key (A minor) 1.5 tones or 3 frets below it,it is easy to find your minor pentatonics directly from your major ones.So G major is also E minor etc.
Cheers
John
Gee Griff, shows what I know, I always thought that ‘caged music’ referred to the kind of establishment that you guys played in. I understand that chicken wire can be a life saver when the music Isn’t going down too well……… ha ha.
Thanks for the Blues Guitar course Griff its exactly what I need at my level, I can just drop onto that sucker when I have a bit of spare time, perfect.
My problem is, do I learn ‘playing on the porch’ then build a porch or build a porch then learn how to play ‘playing on the porch’ sure got me beat. Guess I should get those scales down first then think about it uhh……
Seriously though Griff, thanks again your an inspiration.
Ten yrs ago in Turkey I saw a guitarist playing caged with much mobility.I was ignorant but determined to learn so I bought two CDs from the Peruvian group.to strike out a conversation.He told me is caged. Found a book by David Mead on Caged ideas. Practised six months with 3hrs per day. Spread my fingers and applying pressure against the table with the finger tips to enhance the dexterity whenever I had the opportunity”.The spirit must succeed.within a yr.” I discovered that I had to land my ring finger and pinky first on the strings followed by middle and index for barre.Vast improvement. From then on one barre chord per week. Now I use mixtures of both open and barre to play and sing along. This may not be the best method but great achievement without a teacher. Cheers!
I have read many versions by teachers trying to make sense out of this system. Ever Justin Sandercoe whom I respect greatly, like your Griff is using it. Fortunately, I am a musician (violin) and learning guitar in my late eighties, I have found that learning scales, positions and then jazz chord progressions has set me free to improvise and enjoy playing. (Thanks to Mickey Baker). I like your approach and as soon as I can sell my Dan Denley Course I am going to get some of your great material, that seems to better fit my style. Thanks for the free tips that you hand out.
Thanks Griff. The CAGED system is confusing to me, but you actualy cleared a few things up. Like others that already commented, I am already down the path of the 5 boxes, and that makes sense to me.
Griff; Thank you my friend for clearing that up. I am exactlly where you said, I am in the process of getting the 5 boxes under my fingers.I have boxes 1&2 and am working on the rest,but I am not there yet. My isue is ,when I began to play I had no money and hence no lessons. Also I am left handed and had no lefthanded people to help teach me ( at least not for free ) so I learned how to play right handed. You can imagine the challenges. My point is I am dedicated and I do learn it just takes me longer. Is there a tric or an exersize you could recomend, to help a slow learning man, learn a bit faster? I will learn this CAGED thing, but I think I should get some other things down first. Can you or will you help an old struggeling poor man. Thanks H. Haun
Thanks, Griff. Maybe some day I’ll look into this CAGED thing. Right now I’m staying pretty busy with SBS.
Thanks Griff,
I’m a beginner and the ‘CAGED’ thing was confusing the hell out of me. I’ll leave well alone for now and just follow your course. Ian
Thank You! Your approach really makes sense!
Hi Griff.
Wow lots of comments. Some good, some bad. I have owned guitars for 30 years or so, I’ve bought the Mel Bay beginner books, I had a great teacher for a while, but a bit like you I only heard about the CAGED system several years ago. The comment I make is this, nobody has enhanced my playing as much as you have, I, like many others feel that the points you make are on the money. I have waisted valuable time looking into other methods from time to time. The way I see it you are far better off to stick to a course that you know works first, then look around, otherwise you have diverted your focus away from your goal and start burning up more time wrapping your mind around something new with yet another learning curve. For me time is too short now, so I will look at the CAGED system after I finnish my current course. I do take the points in favor of it, they also represent good experience of those that have gone down that path so I believe there is good merit in giving it a go. But not while I’m in the middle of another course of study. As always Griff thanks for your insight on this matter. James.
Griff,
You bring all of us to a new level each week.-Jim
Griff,thanks for sending this lesson on CAGED. I am not ready to get into it right now. I want to finish the Acoustic Blues Guitar Unleashed DVD’s first. I will file this for later. Thanks, Mike Z.
Hey Griff and fellow geetar tragics.
I still have a Mel Bay Orchestral Chords Book about 50+ years since published (yes – I’m a geezer) that clearly shows the moveable (CAGED) chord shapes, also known as “power chords”. The use of “little chords” in blues is an essential skill as the use of Orchestral or Power Chords is essential for many other playing styles including jazz and basic backing comping. They also avoid the use of that abomination called a capo! FYI Merle Haggard uses the larger form in some of his music allowing a fuller tone to the Telecaster. Hope the post is of some interest.
[If you’re not usin’ a Gibson, you’re slummin’ not strummin’] c):0)
I understand and am using the CAGED system more and more, very cool. But it is only for the open Major chord shapes. Is there a similar system for open Minor chords / shapes (i.e. open Em, Am)? I hope you can post a reply, should benefit many guitarists.
Checked out the little bird lesson. Nice stuff. I had been using most of what you showed and did not realize what it was that I was doing. The G and F fingering was new to me and will come in very handy. Thanks for the info. I usually don’t post on things like this but your lessons are pretty good and it was time to say so. I will most likely be getting you DVD set when I get some time to get at them. Till then, keep the good stuff coming!!!
I’m sorry if you hadn’t received my letter stating that I do not have a guitar yet but i’m planning on getting me one. It’s too soon to say when, but I maybe in a month at the most. Until then, what would you suggest that I do. Should I continue to follow you sessions or wait
CAGED or as I like to say it EDCAG is probably the best way to make sense of the guitar, however, it may not be be the best way to express yourself. I would suggest a “learn it then forget it” approach. Learn the scale and chord shapes. Make that your foundation, then build your house.
Griff,
Great follow up to the CAGED System Video that was sent a out a week or two ago featuring, your buddy Professor Steve Stine. If you know your barre chords, just that short excerpt that was featured from then CAGED system DVD Course, turned my lights on and the small improvisations that he demonstrated made catching a, G shaped C and a D shaped G, so much easier and then using those same chord’s shape notes to create a solo out of, definitely opened my eyes up, and now I am practicing these other shaped barre chords beyond the usual E and A shapes. I never realized I could play the I-IV-V in the same neck area with little to no vertical neck movement and play a minor blues mixed with mixolydian solo using the notes of those CAGED System chords with hardly a left hand shift, and the ability to use half intervals, by mixing in the Mixolydian scale. I think if your trying to learn rhythm, especially using barre chords it would be very beneficial to understand the CAGED system, I find it actually pretty easy once you understand the basic concept, that each open chord moved to the next position, in a barre( imagining that your pointer finger becomes the guitar nut) creates that same chord with a slightly different voicing just by beibg able to spell CAGED. I think Professor Stine did a great job, just in the small promo that was given to us for free, let alone the course in it’s entirety (3 full DVDs) and as usual I always enjoy Your blog and the short tutorials that you share with us. Griff THANKS ALOT to You and your buddies Dan Denley, Professor Steve Stine and Marty Shwartz, Love all you guys and the small arsenal of guitar techniques you’ve all divulged
I’m 69 years old. Studied and played accordion for years, but wanted to play guitar. Picked up on and had someone show me C D F. Knowing there was more from my accordion I started to put the progressions together with the way the base notes on the left hand of the accordion were arranged. So changing keys was always easy and with a little experimenting was able to break the I, IV, V and add some chords transitioned more pleasingly. I bought two of you courses in the last two years, Soloing Without Scales, and Guitar Theory Made Useful. I love the way you teach what is really useful and in a way we can grasp onto it. I learned more from you Guitar Theory Made Useful, than in all my years of study with a conservatory. They only wanted the money. Anyone interested in going farther in their learning would do well to order your Guitar Theory Made Useful and learn the Modals. Now we’re talking about how to make the music talk to others. I’m too old to really learn it in depth, but as far as I can see, the pentatonic scales is the easiest way to play by ear add the blue note and its almost complete, understand the modals and you can do it all. Anyway, back to the caged system, most everybody probably knows them anyway if they move the shape up the fret board put a barre a fret or two below them, No mystery, just another way to squeeze money for a “secret” way to shred. Pay attention to Griff, you’ll be years and miles ahead not to speak about the money.
Thank you I’m sure you have good ideas …but hey how old are you? I started in 1964
I just finished reading Kirk Lorange’s book on the CAGED sysem called Plane Talk and found it very pleasant to read in its comic book format and learned quite a bit about constructing cords all over the neck of the guitar in any key. The book came with an excellent slide scale to help you find cord shapes up and down the neck of the guitar and also has a supporting dvd, where Kirk demonstrates all the CAGED techniques.
I agree with you Griff that in soloing on the Blues and other pop music, the Pentatonic scales are invaluable. They, more than anything else, have taken my guitar playing to a new level. At the same time, there is a lot of value in learning the CAGED system.
Thanks for bringing the topic up for discussion!
There is MUCH more to the CAGED system than that. For example if you start with an open C (with the C shape) you ring finger is on the third fret. Now bar the third fret and use the A shape and you have another C chord. Your ring finger is on the 5th fret. Bar the 5th and use the rest of your fingers to play a G shape. Another C. You pinky is on the 8th fret. Bar that and use the E shape. Another C. Your ring finger is on the tenth fret. Bar that and play a D shape but skip a fret lie you would with an open D. Another C. CAGED. If you were to start with an open A move up in the same way but this time your next shape is a G (G is after A in CAGED) etc. Some of those are ever difficult to finger with full chord, so make them SMALL chords. Plus arpeggios are easy to play. It s a great way to play correct notes for each chord change from a position you are already in the same general area. It can be used for all chords but you’ll have to pay me $37 for that explanation (kidding). I’ve said too much already. Guitarzoom.com sells a course on it called CAGED made simple. An interesting and unique way to look at the fret board.
Hey Griff,
Just ask your buddy Bob Murnahan about the “Caged” system. He has a course called “Major Scale Tactics” that I myself and many others have paid for which began in December of 2012. It is a 10 month course and he got up to 3 months, 5 Lessons and then has not followed up on any more.
He screwed us all! The lessons are fantastic and I learned so much in those few lessons. Bob is a talented and gifted musician and teacher. Unfortunately he is not an honest man and rips people off with his schemes…….
Thank God your nothing like him!
John
Thanks Griff for saving a confused newbie a boatload of time
Thanks, Griff!
GREAT explanation!. You made an old-timer feel less stupider when you said it had been twenty years before you saw CAGED. My take is that you better understand the CAGED shapes all over the fretboard as chords and as solo patterns. (wish I did after 40 years!)
This makes perfect sense, or not. I’m in the middle of BGU and I’m leaning some of my favorite songs at the same time. I like Griff’s way so I’m not in a position for more confusion/complication.
Thanks for the info on CAGED. I get a feeling for what it is, however I will stay on the path I’m on.
Thanks Griff!!
Hi Griff,
I had a post on your web page a short while ago with the topic “which course should be the next and the next and the next…”
The aim with that topic was really trying to sort out in what order, and which topics, should we amateur students of the guitar follow to be able to play the guitar “as our heroes do”, for instance the way you you do! How does the pro´s learn to play?! What do they need to know?!
Maybe there are too many smart sellers out there, making money on peoples dream of becoming a great guitar player. So how do we know what is the best, or at least a really good path to follow to reach this goal?! We search, we try, and we want to learn. But it seems to be to much and also wrong information out there.
Hundreds, or maybe even thousands, of web commercials speak about their “fantastic way” to help you reach the Holy Grail, i.e. playing like the Heroes do.
So what can we do in our search, and whom should we believe in? From my point of view this is a big challenge for many aspiring guitarists, maybe we are being (mis)used by many unserious actors in this marked, selling “a dream that cant be realized?! I guess its all about business.
What about the guitar students in the professional music universities, which path and method do they follow to become professional guitarists? Do they learn all about the diatonic, pentatonic, blues, CAGED and so forth?! Does anybody sell their way of learning how to play?
I just try to find a sound structure and a good way and pedagogic method to follow to be able to learn to play guitar seriously. However its easy to get frustrated in the search for the best way to learn plying the guitar, thats probably why I have bought courses from way too many sources already; And now I wonder “Which of all of these courses should I take next”?! I don´t know!!!
I think I have enough courses to cover the next 30 years…But I don´t want to spend so long time, and I will probbably give in long time before that. I had a dream… Best regards LeifBS
Never heared about caged before. You kind of confused me. I’m still trying to memorize Box’s 3-5 and Box 5 is a hard one. If I saw it it on paper what you where explaining maybe I would grasp it. Your right, I’m still to envolved with BGU and my health has been bad , so I’m trying to play at least 10 minutes a day on the Blues Minor Pent. Box’s. Playing the Kiddy club? Great place . If I was feeeling good I would love to see your band perform. Before I Got My Dieases the band I was in , we played the coach house in Capistrono. Great place. We played our own Music. Not Blues.That was in 2003. Have fun tonight. I’m Jealous.:-) Paul.
PS. I thtink i just got the caged idea. Some of the notes in the major chords are the same , Like G and D your fingers are on the same fret and strring? Am I close?
I have learned are box I, II, iv and v what is Box III If you can show me. Thanks!
Joseph
I have been following your Blues lessons for guitar even though I have been trying to learn how to play the BASS Guitar. It might be helpful to know what the guitar player is doing. Now I wish that someone would teach Blues Bass the way you are teaching Blues Guitar. Just about every on-line teacher I have viewed seems more interested in showing off their particular style rather than teaching the basics and “secrets” of playing an effective bass line.
So far, Stu Hamm is the only on-line Bass instructor that even comes close to theory the way you do with the Blues Unleashed series but his only instructional set is concerning modes and the different fingering patterns for Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, etc.
What do you suggest for an aspiring bass player?
hi there griff your CAGED system is great i love it for sure so keep posting it from time to time and may be i can purchase it in the near future thanks
Hi Griff; Somewhat off the subject of CAGED…I’m a newcomer and just getting started with
my ‘Beginning Blues Lessons’…..but I’m writing this just to say that I am so happy
I chose your lesson plan…..chords and licks are coming together and I am making
music while practing and it is really a cool experience. I did take classical guitar
lessons and I am used to playing arpeggio’s on a nylon stringed guitar….but my
real desire is to learn rythym and blues in it’s many forms and I know that I have
chose the right venue. Thanks for sharing your music talent. Tom in Pensacola
Hi Griff. I first encountered the CAGED system way back in 1975 when I took guitar lessons from a guy named Keith Allen in San Francisco at a funky music school called “Blue Bear Waltzes School of Music” (I think it is still around).
Anyway this guy Keith Allen had published his system in Guitar Player magazine (the only guitar mag back then), but he didn’t call it CAGED. But it was definitely the same system of how the chord shapes connect to one another. Keith even had his system copyrighted, but I don’t know if he “invented” it. He was an excellent player and a great teacher; very technical and really knew his stuff. He could read and write guitar music in standard notation … he even sometime supplemented his income by writing out the guitar parts for guitar books in standard notation …this was before TAB was popular. Don’t know what became of him.
Anyway, you asked if anyone knew of earlier uses of the CAGED system (Fretboard Logic was published in 1983 I think).
Thanks for all the great lessons!
Not ready for the caged system I’m still stuck on 12 bar blues
Great ! Good stuff,Griff. Thanks again. 🙂
I’ve been playing guitar for 40 years and 3 years ago a friend of mine (who is an awesome lead guitar player) told me how the CAGED System by Bill Edwards…Fretboard Logic.(which I highly recommend…get his video & book) had changed his life on lead guitar playing….for years I had been playing lead guitar but until I tried the CAGED System….it opened my style and eyes in ways I didn’t know of….a light all of a sudden just clicked on for me…it will help you play lead in any key effortlessly once learned…..I would tell anyone …just concentrate first on learning the 5 patterns forwards and backwards…then connect them together….everything else will fall into place….trust me…..you will learn to understand it and have the best time of your life doing it.
Ricky
Nashville, TN
I took guitar lessons at a music store in the Syracuse, N.Y. area back around 1979. The music store was Gerber Music….they sold records and tapes and…Gibsons and Fenders! I also bought my first amp there…a brand new Peavey Pacer. The guitar teacher was a guy named Don Bell. I didn’t realize it at the time, but he was teaching the CAGED method. He never referred to it as that, if my memory is correct. He taught it as “Call All Girls Except Doris” (CAGED). Me and my buddies changed it to “Call All Guitarists Except Don” for kind of a joke. I remember him relating the scale degrees to the various chord shapes…where the flat fives were and the tonics. He would have you play the scale “tonic to tonic”, up and down the neck. I still remember the whole pattern, covering the fretboard, and sometimes play it, backwards and forwards, for a warm-up exercise. At the time, it was all very confusing. It makes a little more sense now.
griff, thank you for all the tips on how to play. a great amount could translate into music theory. I do not play except the 5 major chords shown in the article (Super) I write country songs. on my website joemopublishing.com. are some of my songs on reverbnation sung by david max Baldwin-who has perfect enunciation,and all songs produced by ray gantek lead musicion at the orange blossom opre in weirsdale, fla. ray is an phenom when playing the guitar, and all other instruments on the cd. you will be pleasantly surprised by the cd joemo. thank you again for the quality of your expertise.
Okay Dan here goes, my first communication back to you. I must tell you first that I have not purchased any products from you, I am an intermediate guitar player, and I’m setting on the middle of the fence in terms of what direction I want to go with improving my playing. I love playing Blues music but I’m not able to improvise and that is the level I’m looking to achieve.
I’ve been following your comments and small bits of exercises/pieces of songs you send me since I registered. Your timing on this blog is right on. I have also been getting “a lot” of stuff coming into my email box on the CAGED system but I am not able to discern alot about it either and I really can’t make a determination which way to go. I want to be a good improviser and be able to play-over progressions creatively and have it sound like real music.
I’m inclined to try your Blues Guitar Unleashed but frankly still a bit confused on which learning style will work best for me. Thanks for the Blog commentary. Perhaps I can sift through my confusion and get into learning improvisation Blues style.
I’m not sure I can get back into this site to see Blog comments. But hope to hear little more advise. Thanks.
Steve
Why not simply say: the CAGED system is quite similar to the Pentatonic boxes.
G=Box1, E=Box2, D=Box3, C=Box4, A=Box5. Mostly the same thing, different expression of it.
Bill Edwards took the Pentatonic ideas, rearranged them, wrote a book, made some money.
Very rational Griff, was first introduced to caged about 15 years ago, as you say not the “Holy Grail” but anything that creates expansion of your knowledge can’t be bad.
The caged system, works especially well for learning to play the five penta shapes up and down the neck fret board logic was a huge inspiration for me…more than any video lesson……that being said … you have also been a huge help……and I sincerely thank you…..I, m 64 yrs young and been teaching myself to play….for just the past year……rich….
What?? This is confusing.do you have a video explaining caged system?
Im stillworking on scales I prefer rhythm guitar so what ever advice you have for playin chords for blues songs would be appreciated
Hi Griff
As I understand it, the ‘caged’ style means visualising a chord shape on the fingerboard then visualising a lick/run/scale around this shape and remembering this in my bag of tricks to be pulled out as and when required. If this is what you mean, then you could visualise a lick/run/scale around any shape – major or minor. I’ve also learnt licks and things around diminished, augmented, flat 9th, etc., shapes. In fact whenever you give us a lick, I try to marry it with a chord type/shape. This way I can get a feel for how the lick sounds on a particular chord style or shape no matter what kind (basically assuming that a minor lick is played over a minor shape, for instance).
However, sometimes you suggest a lick without a chrord symbol – I just guess!
Good luck,
David
Thanks Griff for putting this into perspective. At times; with Maj,Min,Dim,3rds minor 3rds etc, it becomes difficult to keep them all straight.
I think that each method has its place and if it is not overwhelming and you can learn it in a relatively short time it is worth learning. A long time ago when I was playing in bands, they would give me a song to learn, or I would find out songs they were doing and instead of sticking with the normal formation of the chords, I would learn the notes of the chord and then roam all over the fret board until I found a chord formation of the same chord they were using, that looked entirely different then how they were fingering that same chord, which helped me learn the fret board pretty thoroughly, but it also angered them because they couldn’t figure out what I was doing and of course I would never tell them either. When I got suspicious that they were figuring out what I was doing, I would relearn the chord in another place with an entirely different finguring and shape, which really drove them crazy. Of course when we played and I was using them for real they didn’t complain, but from that I really learned the value of knowing the fret board.
That really helped. I’ve been trying to figure out what I was supposed to do with the CAGED system and really couldn’t find a way to apply it to something. Additionally, I find some of the barre shapes really hard to play. I understand what CAGED is and I am glad to know I don’t have to use it. I was doing just fine with the five pentatonic boxes. Thanks Griff!
Hey that was some good info,thanks…..:))
I learned the CAGED chords first then learned the five minor & major patterns. I would have had difficulty learning any barre chords had I not known the CAGED cords. Your strumming course seems to be centered around CAGED chords. Maybe I missed what you were saying.
According to Bill Edwards the CAGED system has been around for 500 years.
http://www.guitarnoise.com/blog/bill-edwards-interview/
Joe Pass gave a number of seminars during the early 1970’s as I recall on the topic of the CAGED System, one of which I attended.
CDNBob, I find that when you just use the first four strings, then the gymnastics of the G and C shapes goes away and they become pretty darned handy.
Whew! Thanks for letting me out of the CAGE-D Griff.
That system is really confusing and it sucked the air right out of my determined sails leave me ship-wrecked on a deserted island full of chord bones and decomposing scales
I’ve played around with the CAGED system for a few years and recently started using some of it again mostly to achieve a different chord voicing. I can’t successfully use the C and G shapes barred because I have short fingers plus a bit of joint problems makes it painful.I found that the E shape was the most practical/movable chord of the bunch as with the D and A shape (used as a partial).
Ah, the CAGED system. I have studied it and you are so right when it comes to minor chord shapes. Hendrix had such long fingers that he could do just about anything he wanted with a guitar physically. I had the pleasure of seeing him several times and was just amazed by his special talent, as were most folk that saw him. However, we have not all been blessed either with the reach or the talent of that very special guitarist. What I do not see in discussions of Jimi are two important things. He was a great musician and rhythm guitarist also. The best. Period.
Since I have studied both the Caged and now working on “Blues Unleashed”, I am finding that the differences are slight, outside of the numbering, and all having both courses is doing for me is improving my playing by magnitudes!!! Thank you, Griff, for the Unleashed course. It has just cleared up my knowledge and cleaned up my playing and is the better of the two. Of course, maybe being old enough to be retired and devote as much time as I want and having been fortunate enough to afford to equip a home “studio” so I can break down my work might also have something to do with it 😉
And, thank you, Andy, for the website!
Very informative explained in a way that is easily understood, many Thanks Griff.
Griff, you have probably already made this point in some other place, so forgive me – I agree with you almost completely, with one modification: finding root notes. The pentatonic boxes by themselves tell you nothing about which notes are the roots, but the CAGED system is grounded in the roots. I think it really helps even the beginner to know, for example, that in good-ol’ minor Box 2, the roots are a “D” shape; that the next box up has a “C” root shape; and that if your index finger is on the 5th string root, well by god you’re in Box 4. FWIW.
Great blog Griff. Very practical advice, since to me the goal to learning is not to have a mental exercise but to play music. The pentatonic scale seems to get a fair amount of bad press, as being very limiting and one needs to learn the modes or Caged to be a better player. I spent a fair amount of time focused on CAGED and seeing just the 3 notes in each shape. The result when playing the Blues, was I was so mentally focused on trying to “see” the other notes around the basic 3 in each shape, that I was really going nowhere in my being able to actually play music. On the postive side, knowing CAGED DID help me to learn the 5 pentatonic shapes .
So to me, after much trail and error in learning, as you point out, it really is a combination of ways at looking at the fretboard with the goal being to be able to have the freedom of making music and not a mental exercise.
One more thing, in one of your lessons that you did, you in the Little Wing style, you showed how the pentatonic scales, major and minor, mapped to the modes…that was a real eye opener to me. So yes, youre leaving out 2 notes from each of the modes , but to me, so what, 5 notes is plenty.
For anyone, who hasnt gotten Griffs Little Wing lessons, it will really open you up musically besides being able to play those cool sounding Hendrix chord embellishments and including chord stuff into solos.
Thanks again, sorry for the long post , just wanted to share my experience ..you were spot on in this blog
Just starting to find my way around pentatonic boxes. If I ever run out of things to learn there
(maybe in a few years) I will revisit this CAGED system. Until then Its way over my head.
thanks for the break down on the caged system. I will look at that a little farther down the road for now sticking with 5 pentatonic boxes……
Thanks great info tho…………..
Dale
I have not “studied” the CAGED system, but have used the concept of it to open up my understanding and approach to the fretboard. I have almost always used is in relation to rhythm; to find a different space to play with other guitarists/a piano. In my mind that has helped me find different places on the fretboard to ‘land’ when soloing, but not a reason I would subscribe to CAGED.
Cool post – for those of you who follow my lessons, Joseph numbers the boxes differently that I do. He calls A major pentatonic box 1 what I call box 2. I don’t change the numbers based on usage… they are always box 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 regardless of whether they are used in a major or minor context.
Really good article on the caged system with the pentatonic scale: http://www.fundamental-changes.com/what-is-the-caged-system-and-why-do-we-use-it/