Here’s the thing… when we say we’re in a “key” in blues, we aren’t really in a key at all.
It’s a convenience, but it’s not accurate.
For example, when we say a blues is “in the key of E,” it’s not, really. That’s just something we say. And if you’re new to the blues, and new to music, in general, this can be pretty confusing.
I did an article about this once before, that you may want to read, but the subject seemed to need a video as well:
Download it – MP4
45 replies to "Blues Keys Vs. Real Keys (With Video)"
This concept shouldn’t be a problem. It’s really a language/definition/communication issue. In any blues band situation, call out “blues in G” and everyone knows what you mean. If a highly-trained player in an orchestra quibbles about your use of the word “key”, and says you must mean “tonal center”, just let it slide.
This idea that a DOMINANT 7TH chord can only be a 5 chord is news to me! and you can’t have a Dom 7th as a 1 chord! news also.
He’s not saying you have to do anything differently. Only that no one key has 3 Dominant 7 chords.
However, if you want to go beyond playing the same minor pentatonic scale over an entire 12-bar blues that fact may become important to you.
Makes a lot of sense. I also play a bit of sleazy blues harmonica and I think this explains how a blues in A (ie centred on A) has to be played in 2nd position on a D blues harp. Discovered the discrepancy when wanting to play an ‘E blues’ so got an E harmonica to discover it gave me blues in B . I now know the difference between play in D is centring in A.
It’s called “cross harp” It’s easy to remember which harp to grab, just match the 4 chord, so yeah When playing a 1,4,5 progression, the 4 four chord for A is D.
Nice to learn how to pick the right harp for a blues in this blues guitar space. Thanks
My handicap remains… as an “ear player’ I don’t ‘”fly solo” without a backing track which provides a context for my improvisation. backing provides a resonance in my brain.. I suddenly “feel it” and that is what blues is all about I think. Those of us that play by ear need that kind of support.. that was why I criticized your Sloe Blues Construction course as no resonating ending to it. perhaps being the skilled musician that you are, we “ear players” don’t belong’ along? LOL Seriously, need more focus on providing resonance for my retarded blues brain cells.
I sometimes half jokingly say that since music isn’t about the chord but about momentum (where you’re going and not where you’re at) that (let’s say A blues) is actually in A minor with the caveat that the minor chords (I-IV-V) are being substituted with the dominant (which is always allowable.
Can I play minor pentatonic D on the four chord a minor pentatonic on the one cord then play e minor panegyric on the five cord???
E minor pentatonic on the 5 cord
You can play anything that sounds good to you.
Good concept to know. I’m glad I don’t get hung up on that. I’ll just accept that and play. Thanks again!
Alexander
I’ve been doing this for a long time. Now I know what to call it.
Thanks Griff you could not be more clear in our group back in the 60’s we would keep it short we would just say for example Loui loui in E or green onions in G or memphis in A we used a play list all songs were notated with what we play it in we all played off the list.
A simple trick I use….is to when playing(for example in the Key A or Am)….I will strum a A7….if it sounds good with the song….then I know it’s ok to play both the A and Am pentatonics scale together… and is as well ok to use the 7th chords….if it sounds bad or clashes with the music….then I know not to use 7th chords and to only use the A major pentatonics scale and chords with A major only… and A minor pentatonics scale and chords with A minor only….this trick works with any Key….hope this helps others….has worked great for me for many years….good luck!
Sorry….. This video creates more confusion rather than clearing anything for me.
I will stick to just use the G minor pentatonic scale or the G minor blues scales when playing over the G7, C7, D7 chords & call it the G key when playing the blues.
(Nice, clear & simple.)
Hi Griff, Great explanation and now I clearly understand. Cool lesson.
So much to learn so little time. I have your Blues course and am slowly getting through it. This is somewhat helpful. Thanks for your consistent help and direction. Keep it coming.
The real meat of the video comes at about 7:23 when Griff tells you to play in the key of Gm pentatonic over a jam track in G, good advice. He does NOT say what to do when the music moves to the IV or V chords, though.
Still, good information. When music theory was worked out, they didn’t know about the blues. What a great time to live, with blues and jazz!
You don’t have to do anything different, that is why I didn’t mention it. You can continue to use the Gmin Pentatonic over the IV and V chords.
i now feel vindicated.. that’s my approach to solving chordal “mysteries”…… wasn’t seeking “approval” but now I got it.. thanks.
WOW, how about a tab for that intro solo.
me too.. I want that lick in my “arsenal” too.
OK, cool…as you said.
When in Blues mode, we all know what to do when one of us says “…in the key of…”.
Yesterday, I looked up examples of all the scales in the world, from Min-Yo to Hirijoshi, to Ionian, to Bebop, and on and on. In the music world it is infinite.
So, I guess I’ll pick up my gitfiddle and play a medley beginning with several flamenco Malaguena rounds, blending into all those classic surf tunes (Pipeline, Penetration, to Miserlou…I used to watch Dick Dale and others at the Rendezvous in Newport Beach…until the night when it burned down), and finally busting out a pentatonic “Blues” riff with some of those BB King bends. They can all fit together in all sorts of wonderfully weird ways. I find myself ever “Exploring” on my guitar.
Excellent, it is nice to know the basic rules – so you can break them properly!
Welcome to the big bad world of the blues…
The land of breaking all the rules
However I do like to clear up things like this in my head so I can move on and concentrate on just playing the blues, whatever that means to me and whoever is hearing it, so thanks for that Grif – much appreciated.
So if I don’t use 7th chords I’m in the key of A. If I add a 7th I’m in the tonal center of A, not the key of A. Please!
Thanks Griff.It was a informative lesson.
The mention of using the route note is a good way of positioning your thoughts for transferring to the next. Never thought of playing in any key any ways as most of music is by sound orientation and having fret board knowledge of minor and major notes. As music is about sound complimenting each other in music. Its the way I think of it. I blend to the general cords and sound of the music. Scales are truly the foot notes of music to me.
Surely clears the thinking on the application of chords to scale composition for the blues genere. Thanks for the lesson.
Great lesson as usual…thanks Griff…
WHEN YOU SAY THE SONG IS IN THE KEY OF A, WHAT DO YOU TELL YOUR RTHYUM GUITAR PLAYER, OR KEY BOARD PLAYER WHAT CHORDS TO USE??
I GET WHAT YOUR SAYING !
WHAT I GOT FROM THIS IS IF YOUR IN THE KEY OF “A”, THEN YOU PLYT AN A7TH??
I TOTALY UNDER STAND BLUES IS IN THE MINOR SCALES SO I WOULD DO LICKS AND A SOLO WITH THE MINOR SALES. JUTS ABIT CONFUSIND WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE 4CHORD AND SO ON! WELL YOU DID GIVE ME SOMETHING TO NOT DUE. THANKS GRIFF
Paul—
What you tell your rhythm guitar player, or your keyboard or bass player is, “This one’s in A-Blues.”If they are at all experienced, they will immediately know what the I, IV, and V chords are, That will distinguish what you’re communicating from an Amajor or Aminor piece. Have fun!—Doc
The A note as the anchor point for all your soloing work finally lit the bulb in my head when I was listening to you. I think my soloing is going to be a whole heck of a lot more coherent from now on! Thanks as always for the profound impact you’ve made on my ability to play guitar.
I like the lessons . I seem to be one step ahead of You or its just that I have been playing for so many years that this is stuff I do know already . Just a enforsement on theroy of blues playing . I have the time to focus and jam a lot . The ancor notes and where all of them are has made Me a better guitarist . Knowing them and being able to repeat a simple 3 note thing all over the guitar helps Me to progress . I thank You . Good lesson . Jam on !
A big thing that opened my head on music why and why nots.The natural science of music,overtone series, has flat 3,5 and 7 occur , blues scale.thats why it sounds good with major or minor.I first heard about this from a jazz improve. teacher. and it gives some freedom in jam…
Griff , this was a very helpful lesson . You really made it easy to understand what really is going on . Thanks for another great lesson . Mike Z.
Hi Griff,
Thanks for such useful and re-assuring. advice.
When playing blues in A monor say, do you see the use of Amin7, Dmin7 and Emin7 very often? What the use of D and E without making them seventh chords?
Rod
A, D and E Major chords are the I, IV and V in A Major, as in “pop”, folk, etc.
Am, Dm and Em are the i, iv and v in A minor.
It’s the A7, D7 and E7 Dominant 7 chords used in Blues that aren’t all in the same “key” of A Major.
Thanks.great teaching, you really are teaching a lot of music there theory.Im 72, don’t plan on joining a group, unless it’s an oldies but goodies group, get it? Did play as a teen in a group.now I’m just a couch player, just sit on my couch and play the sixties stuff.and lots of delta blues. Mississippy John hurt.you have got me learning lead licks.love it.Thanks so much
Cheers Griff
Must get back into your music theory course so much to learn not
Enough hours in the day 😎🎶
This is very interesting and can also be incredibly confusing.
Songs use notes and chords from outside the key all the time. Songs also often break the rules of harmony by using minors or majors where they shouldn’t. We don’t say that these are not in that key. Isn’t Res for Two and example of that?
Secondly, I don’t always play a 7th chord for the one or four when playing blues. I usually use a seventh for the five chord.
Isn’t the blues played in a minor key? If that’s the case, I think the only note outside the key of G minor would be the F# which the third of the five chord.
Griff is specifically and only referring to the use of 3 Dominant 7 chords. Each chord is a V7 of a different key.
Playing a Major I and IV and a V7 are all in the same key.
Playing a minor i, iv and v are all in the same key.
Playing min7’s for the i, iv and v are all in the same key.
There are only 7 notes in a key. Adding any other note or chord containing any other note is simply not in that key. Yes, we can use them but that doesn’t make them part of that key.
ron to Paleoblues
see my response to Mark below…I messed this (reply) selecting input by clicking in the wrong place…No Harm intended. Sorry for all readers who care. I agree w/ Paleo
ron,
75 going on to the end (it blues all the way).
Hi Griff, any lessons coming up on the muddy waters chicago blues guitar style?
With thanks Mark.
I’ve been focusing on theory now for 4+ years… and your comments fit very well as best I can tell.Thanks