Does anyone else have this issue with playing electrics?

[JohnHurley]

Ummmm are there some good old fashioned guitar guys running a shop anywhere near you?

I think its probably easiest to take it to a luthier aka good guitar tech and get it checked out.

Personally my guess nut needs fixed maybe action lowered and use a regular 9 or 10 set of strings.

But yeah take it to someone knowledgeable who can hands on check it out.

 

[Norfolk Bill]

pressing way to hard by the looks, the easiest way to see is to , mute the string gently then apply pressure slowly and gently until the note rings clear that will give you an idea of how much pressure is required,,,hope that makes sense

 

[Silicon Valley Tom]

I have been playing guitar since 1952, and I had some good teachers. From the classical world, Fred Stockton, Rey de la Torre, and Andres Segovia. From the flamenco world, Carlos Montoya, Sabicas, Mariano Cordoba, and Juan Serrano. My approach to the guitar is based upon classical and flamenco, and modified for other styles.


For me, thumb position is important! Having the thumb behind the neck is important to me. Rarely, do I move it, and do so for techniques like bends and vibrato. I place the tip of the finger directly behind the fret, and press until the string is against the fret board. If you vary the pressure of the finger tip against the string, you will change the pitch of the string. That is why you touch the string to the fret board. You will then produce a uniform pitch. Also, placing the finger tip away from the fret closest to the bridge, will change the pitch even slightly.

Tom

 

[Stanley]

I have been playing guitar since 1952, and I had some good teachers. From the classical world, Fred Stockton, Rey de la Torre, and Andres Segovia. From the flamenco world, Carlos Montoya, Sabicas, Mariano Cordoba, and Juan Serrano. My approach to the guitar is based upon classical and flamenco, and modified for other styles.


For me, thumb position is important! Having the thumb behind the neck is important to me. Rarely, do I move it, and do so for techniques like bends and vibrato. I place the tip of the finger directly behind the fret, and press until the string is against the fret board. If you vary the pressure of the finger tip against the string, you will change the pitch of the string. That is why you touch the string to the fret board. You will then produce a uniform pitch. Also, placing the finger tip away from the fret closest to the bridge, will change the pitch even slightly.

Tom

thanks Tom

I agree on the pressing to the fret board. Only way to maintain a consistent pressure and therefore pitch. All those rock performers who jump around and run all over the stage playing in all kinds of positions can't possibly be controlling string pressure so delicately to keep it light enough to not bend over the frets out of tune as visibly happens on my guitar. I can barely do it sitting still and doing one simple note, but for a microsecond, as it will bend or mute if I breathe. Therefore the guitar should be set so that the strings are in tune when so pressed.

Despite so many folks insisting I'm pressing too hard, I can assure you that I virtually used no pressure on the strings in the video. They were that soft and gave that easily. I can see that myself in the video. Also, it DOES NOT HAPPEN this easily on my other guitars, the acoustics, altho it happens to a lesser degree on my other electrics, even the high end one. unless I really force it, which I don't.

I was actually surprised to see my thumb over the neck. It may have been just natural when I was only fretting strings to show the pitch change, but apparently I rest it there when playing too. I know I learned with it behind the neck. I will definitely work on that when I practice going forward.

I simply won't be playing electrics unless we can figure out this issue. I am having a very experience guitar guy look at it soon. Hopefully he will be able to adjust it so its playable for me.

 

[PapaBear]

I had the very same issues going from 15-20 years of playing acoustic only to electric, the strings were like spaghetti, and I couldn't fret in tune for a month or so, even then I would pull an open D chord sharp for a year or so, probably occasionally still do!

 

[Elwood]

I agree on the pressing to the fret board.

Only if the frets are low and going to the fret board occurs easily. The string sound is from the fret to the saddle, that's it. The object is clear tone. any more pressure than is required will accelerate fret and finger wear. To play smoothly, fast enough for the tune, and be able to play for hours while making the guitar, bass, banjo, sound good, those are the goals I have always valued. I noticed (and have tried to correct it out) that when learning a new, difficult passage I tend to "strangle" the neck, and that always ends up making me play in a stiff, uncoordinated way, with sore fingers as a reward. Of course, this is my opinion, and what do I know anyways?
Cheers!

 

[Stanley]

Only if the frets are low and going to the fret board occurs easily. The string sound is from the fret to the saddle, that's it. The object is clear tone. any more pressure than is required will accelerate fret and finger wear. To play smoothly, fast enough for the tune, and be able to play for hours while making the guitar, bass, banjo, sound good, those are the goals I have always valued. I noticed (and have tried to correct it out) that when learning a new, difficult passage I tend to "strangle" the neck, and that always ends up making me play in a stiff, uncoordinated way, with sore fingers as a reward. Of course, this is my opinion, and what do I know anyways?
Cheers!

Totally agree. Thanks

 

[JPsuff]

The nut is way too tall.
There's a point in your video where you're fretting the "A" string on the first fret and there seems to be a significant amount of deflection.
The nut slots seem to be OK in terms of depth but I would find the specs for that guitar and shave the nut to bring the strings down.

As for other guitars, that's hard to say.
It seems unlikely ( but not impossible , I suppose), that every electric guitar you have has a too tall nut so it's still possible that technique is an issue.

Is there a guitar tech near you?
If so, perhaps explain what's happening to him/her and maybe see if you can bring a few guitars to them to "demo" the problem.

 

[Elwood]

You can verify or eliminate any suspected nut problem by using a capo. If you still have the same problem with the capo even if the nut is too high it is not the main factor in the problem. If you capo it and the problem is gone, viola! Get some good nut work done.

 

[Jack]

I put your playing in Reatune, which tracks the pitch. Here's your open E, 1st fret E, then open B, first fret B, etc.: (please disregard the giant spikes, that's just the program getting confused)



One thing I notice is that as you press and then release pressure on the string, you of course get a wavy line, but when pressure is at its minimum, the line does seem to drop to the correct pitch.

And here's me doing the same thing on my Strat - I first play the note on the 1st fret normally, and then press down good and hard to produce the same sort of "vibrato" you got.



I dunno, you can compare them and see what you think.

 

[BraylonJennings]

I like Elwood's problem solving method, it's a great test. All except the part about the viola, I don't think many of us own one
In your video you appear to apply a vibrato to the single notes, a definite no-no when your checking your intonation and tuning.
Lastly, when I switched from mostly acoustic playing to an electric, I had the same issues with accidentally tugging notes out of tune. I used much heavier strings until my touch improved to wear I'm comfortable with 9's. Probably headed to 8's if I can.

 

[Norfolk Bill]

just to back up about what i said earlier practicing the right pressure,,,do not push to the fretboard mute the string press gently until note rings thats all you need , the rest is practice and yes rock stars jumping around can do this as they have practiced lol i cant be arsed writing out other problems this can cause but just a quick google search and this about sums it all up https://guitarandbass.com/how-hard-press-guitar-strings/

 

[Elwood]

All except the part about the viola,

well wa-lah.
being somewhat of an intelligent derrière I have so often exclaimed "Viola" that I guess I type it that way now. You don't even want to see what I do to "you-reek-a". So much for French and Greek.
You guys seem to be way more aware of string things than I am I guess. My Taylor "full size" all wear 12s (the mini is running 12s on top with 13 size bottom strings now - 13s are fine too, the hybrid set is a little easier on the hands though) and my electrics all wear 10s. I really don't notice greater difficulty with electric or acoustic. I guess full barre chords are easier on the electrics but I do my best to work around using those chords anyway that I can. Now the few times that I have tried 9s on an electric they felt bad to me, mushy feeling. I may try a set of 9s again though. After spending more time with the banjo I may be more receptive to 9s on a guitar. I don't really care much about bending past a 1/2 step or so anyways.
My old misshapen hands do like short scale fingerboards though, and the rest of me vastly prefers a light weight instrument (except the banjo, it just sits plop in the lap so aside from moving it the weight is not much of an issue, that is a long neck son of a gun though).
Those videos of hearing the pitch go sharp as the note is squeezed down make
my fingers hurt just listening.

 

[Norfolk Bill]

just a thought , you have a tuner? maybe it would help you visualise as well as feel the amount of pressure needed to get a clear note that is not pushed/pressed out of tune

 

[sdbrit68]

Maybe I am saying the same thing as @dvs.

Number one, look at DVS hand position compared to yours, at least in the video it looks like you have a very over exaggerated hand turn, not sure if that was to show more for the video or natural.

Number 2 , every pick, your hand was moving like a forced vibratto , but more pushing not vibrating. And to use a shooting reference, it looks like you are anticipating the note and your thumb is jumping forward every pick, then to make it more interesting, your elbow and shoulder are getting into the action

Number 3 you are moving the guitar neck every note. Now, on all my guitars, cheap or expensive, I can put pressure on the neck and it will distort the sound. On ones without a whammy bar I will do that when play some rock songs.


Number 4 , it would be interesting to look at the neck profile of your acoustics vs electrics, maybe you have a style you are comfortable with


Anyways, I don't think it is any one thing, I am thinking it's two or 3 things in combination and it's really cause a bad sound, whereas one alone would just be a little off.

I am guessing, you have gotten so frustrated, that at this point, when you try to play, everything looks like it tenses up and makes things worse.

But, my opinion and $5 will get you a cup of coffee

 

[PapaBear]

I'm actually having a bit of the reverse issue, I've been practicing with and electric unplugged for the last 6 months or so mostly, and I've noticed my acoustic chops are suffering greatly!

 

[ChicagoCharlie]

In some activites, one gets lessons from a professionsal.
Golf, tennis, swimmong ........ I've taken lessons from a couple of local instructors with Evil Pony, my horse.
Guitar is no different, as it is very physical.
For example, Randy Rhoads, while on the road with Ozzie, would take lessons from local classical guitar instructors.
[ Yes, this is real. Years ago, I met the classical guitarist that worked with him a long time ago in Chicago. ]

Forom all that I've read in this post, here is a suggestion.

Find out if there are any cometent guitar instructors in your area.
If so, talk with them and consider taking a couple of lessons for problem solving.

 

[Elwood]

I'm actually having a bit of the reverse issue, I've been practicing with and electric unplugged for the last 6 months or so mostly, and I've noticed my acoustic chops are suffering greatly!

I have a sneaking hunch that the fix is on the way.

 

[MarkDyson]

I have a sneaking hunch that the fix is on the way.

That fix wouldn't be Taylor-Made, would it?

 

[Stanley]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I haven't been back to the forum since the original postings and wanted to thank the additional replies and advice I received.

I ended up not playing electric again for some time, playing my acoustic daily still, gut also putting most of my effort into lap steel.

Some updates and replies:

apparently I deleted the video from google drive, but as I recall the 'vibrato' some of you commented on was deliberate simply to show how easily the strings bent up and down, not to actually play a vibrato.

it was extremely difficult to video at the right angle so the string/fret view was in frame, and I was not playing as I normally would.

on my acoustics, both Martin and cheapo $75 Rogue I found I am not actually pressing to the wood. It takes significant effort to do so, and if I do press hard it will go a little sharp. not sure what gauge on the cheapo, but I think I had the Martin restrung at the shop with .13s as it comes with. so I'm more certain its the lighter strings on the Epiphone that are a big part or the issue

I put .12s on my Tele-(parts)-caster and that helped immensely. Also the Tele was built by my former teacher and an experienced tech, so I was more confident that it was set up right, at least for his preferences.

And as some suggested, once I started playing them more, my touch adjusted a lot, but the $100 guitar in the video really needs some work still.

but now I'm actually having fun playing electric again and eager to start working my way thru Griff's courses.

Thanks!