The Final Solo

[BoogieMan]

Just finished going through solo #6. Griff doesn't bother going through this solo lick by lick because he feels it is very obvious when he changes the key and corresponding minor and major blues sounds. As I went through solo #6 I tried to figure out which boxes were being used. For example, when the key changes to C7 in bar 17 it looks to me like he is playing the major box 4 in the key of C. In some cases he blends major and minor boxes (composite blues scales).

I appreciate that Griff hasn't handed this to us on a platter because I think you learn it a lot better by working it out yourself. But I wouldn't mind comparing my thinking with others. I was wondering how many of you have gone through this solo and tried to work out the boxes.

 

[OG_Blues]

BoogieMan,
Please do not take this the wrong way, but this is another example of how you and I seem to look at this differently. You are clinging to your boxes - I am not.
First of all, the very purpose of this whole solo is about treating every chord as if it were the I chord, i.e. each chord change is treated as a new key center.
When doing this, to me it makes the most sense to view it from the perspective of the root and then one of the 4 patterns (right or left facing and major or minor and composite).
So take measure 17 as you suggest, which is based on a C7 chord.
Play a left facing major pattern starting from C on the 5th string 15th fret.
You will see that most of the notes in that lick come right out of that root and pattern. There are an additional passing note or two thrown in which are in the left facing minor scale, so this would be considered and example of the composite major/minor scale. In this case, the minor note (Eb) is used as a passing note and it goes by so quickly that they sound fine. It's the key center concept that counts.
I went through this solo when I first saw it and mapped out most measures in this manner.
You can then view each individual lick for potential use over that chord whether it is a I, IV, or V, or for that matter any other song format like a II - V - I or you name it.
It may help to carefully re-read Griff's commentary ahead of this solo in the manual.
Hope this helps.
Oh, BTW, to actually answer your question directly, yes, that would be box 4, root on the 5th string, as per the chart on page 38 of the manual
Tom

 

[BoogieMan]

BoogieMan,
Please do not take this the wrong way, but this is another example of how you and I seem to look at this differently. You are clinging to your boxes - I am not.

I appreciate your response Tom. I had a feeling when we ended the other thread that there was something that I wasn't quite getting. I always try to be open minded about new ideas but I seem to be having a problem getting this one through my thick skull!

First of all, the very purpose of this whole solo is about treating every chord as if it were the I chord, i.e. each chord change is treated as a new key center.

I am quite aware of this.

When doing this, to me it makes the most sense to view it from the perspective of the root and then one of the 4 patterns (right or left facing and major or minor and composite).

I agree.

So take measure 17 as you suggest, which is based on a C7 chord.
Play a left facing major pattern starting from C on the 5th string 15th fret.

which = box 4

It may help to carefully re-read Griff's commentary ahead of this solo in the manual.
Hope this helps.

I had read this very carefully and don't need to re-read it.

Oh, BTW, to actually answer your question directly, yes, that would be box 4, root on the 5th string, as per the chart on page 38 of the manual
Tom

The way I see it is that using relative terms like "left facing major pattern" are necessary when instructing because the pattern of notes changes with each root. But ultimately we have to translate a particular root pattern to a box (unless you are someone like Griff who probably knows the fretboard so well he no longer has to think in terms of boxes or patterns) in order to know which actual notes to play. Just because you feel you have risen above using the term boxes doesn't mean that you are not still using the idea.

 

[OG_Blues]

BoogieMan,
Please understand that none of my comments are intended to be either argumentative or condescending in any way shape or form.
I am merely presenting the point of view that I interpret and believe this entire course to be about.
If I elaborate on things that you already know, realize that there are likely others that read this discussion that may not be as advanced as you are and may benefit in some way or see a light bulb turn on or come to a different understanding of something we discuss.
I do not feel I have risen above using boxes as you say - truth is, I have never learned them all - at least not to the point that they are completely second nature, or that I think about them while playing. I had to look up that the example you brought up was box 4.
For me, I just see this other approach as easier and it works better for me.
This is likely because I came to learning the blues from a different musical background than many guitarists, that's all.
For the last time, and then I will shut up about it, I will point out that Griff says the idea of this course is to move beyond the boxes.
I guess upon reaching the end of this course, a person either embraces that idea, or they do not.
Like everything else, it's a personal choice.
Tom

 

[BoogieMan]

I appreciate your perspective which seems to be quite different from mine. The pentatonic scales and boxes are so integrated into the course that it is difficult for me to imagine going through it without using the box patterns. You are certainly right that Griff says that the idea is to move beyond the boxes and your different musical background may have been to your advantage in this course.

I think Griff's most important advice is to try not to focus on the box number you are in but rather listen to the sound and learn to play either the minor or major sound around a particular root. This seems to be where you are at and where I am struggling to go.