Planned Obsolescence?

[Elwood]

Never mind the waste.

One point of view. It is also easy to take the view that by eliminating the need for floppy and optical they also eliminated unknown tons of waste being generated, especially if you take the "cradle to the grave" view of product life along with disposable supplies and packaging.

We all want our stuff to run faster, do more, and be more stable and secure from threats. We just will not tolerate any change that comes along with our wishes being granted. If you want change you have to be willing to make, or at least accept change. Actually no matter, we can fuss and cuss, changes will come regardless. And, typically we will hustle to beat each other to the newly released stuff as soon as it is available.

 

[MikeS]

Interesting video,

Will Apple be shutting off your audio gear?

Apple's announcement that it will be actively removing the last bits of IEEE 1394 Firewire computer code in its Ventura and Sonoma operating systems has huge...

youtu.be

And there you have another reason to stay away from Apple products. They have ALWAYS relied on proprietary equipment.
If Apple had opened their Firewire standard so that everyone could use it, this would not be happening now (assuming that Firewire is a better answer).

 

[PapaRaptor]

wouldnt some things become obselete just because bigger and better ?

I mean, I have cool animation software that a top of the line I7 processor struggles on, even with m2 and 64gb of ram..............I am looking at I9 and Ryzen 9 now, so isn't there outside factors that force things to become obselete as they improve ?

I mean, as AI is filtering down to the personal home use, God knows what has to happen with hard drives and processors now

Oh certainly.
To exemplify that, I just loaded a Presonus demo session into Studio One v6 Pro (all at the latest updates) on three different computers just to see how much difference in processing power they have.
Machine 1 - i7- 8th generation with 32g of RAM - 23% CPU utilization (Windows 11)
Machine 2 - i5 - 4th generation with 16 gig of RAM - 65% CPU Utilization (Windows 10)
Machine 3 - AMD Athlon 64 with 16 gig of RAM - 100% CPU Utilization and it would not play back in real time without serious pauses. (Windows 10)

I would expect a 12th generation i7 with 32 gigs to come in at about 10% CPU Utilization.

It confirms your observation, more or less in reverse. I have a working Core 2 Duo processor with 4 gigs of memory with Studio One Pro installed. I suspect it would crash or be completely swamped if I tried to play the demo song on it.

If you have Studio One and a My Presonus account... Actually that's redundant. If you have a working copy of Studio One, you must have a My Presonus account, but I digress. You can download this demo tune for yourself. You may already have it.
Open Studio One.
Click on Open
In the Explorer Window Select Demos (If you don't have a Demos folder, check your Demos and Tutorials folder).
Double click on presonus.studioone.demos.as1 (You may have the zipped version, which is the same except with the suffix .zip. If so, you need to unzip it).
Double click on "Rhythm of the Night.song"
Once it loads into Studio One, click play and monitor your CPU utilization near the left hand side of the bottom bar.

 

[PapaRaptor]

And there you have another reason to stay away from Apple products. They have ALWAYS relied on proprietary equipment.

Conversely, if you have a PC running Windows, Firewire (IEEE 1394) still works on Windows 11. Microsoft no longer supports it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work. Apple has just flat-out shut it off.
Microsoft's record on stuff like this is a bit better than Apple's.
I still have Adobe Audition v1.5 installed and running on my computer. It hasn't been supported since Windows 7 by either Adobe or MS. When I installed it, I got a warning from the operating system that this "is not compatible." It allowed me to continue at my own risk and has never failed me yet!

 

[Elwood]

Apple products. They have ALWAYS relied on proprietary equipment.

I have come full circle on that. I used to criticize that aspect of the "Apple ownership experience" too, and I was a staunch PC advocate.

Now I realize that if I buy an Apple product, to go with an Apple product, it is going to work. Full stop, no excuses, no necessary tweaks, it will work. If you dig down in many tales of woe from folks reporting "Apple problems' it is not unusual to see that are actually whining because they are using some cheap junk that is not fully compatible, with their Apple.

I have enjoyed trouble free, hassle free, usage from my M1 mini Mac. With my pc sitting idly by. Instead of modding and updating a pc, along with all the surprises that are hiding along the way, I will just be a happy customer, and use my Mac until I feel it is time to get a new one. And when (and if) that day comes the change to the new machine will be even easier that my first Mac install. The Macs will communicate like mature little devices and all my stuff will be ready to go in minutes. I have not once felt that the Mac mini was even close to being more expensive than a comparable pc, I just get to spend my time using it instead of being flummoxed by some new problem that came while I slept. edit// and I still enjoy using my little Mac in silence, one of the big reasons why I went to Macs is because I really got sick of the cacophony of PC noises (and I did run through a few "quiet fans, tweaked BIOS, "quiet case, yada yada, it still sounds like an x-wing spooling up when the PC runs).

I do appreciate all the Apple envy, or criticism. Please continue to do what you can to help keep those prices down.

 

[MikeS]

I have come full circle on that. I used to criticize that aspect of the "Apple ownership experience" too, and I was a staunch PC advocate.

Now I realize that if I buy an Apple product, to go with an Apple product, it is going to work. Full stop, no excuses, no necessary tweaks, it will work. If you dig down in many tales of woe from folks reporting "Apple problems' it is not unusual to see that are actually whining because they are using some cheap junk that is not fully compatible, with their Apple.

I have enjoyed trouble free, hassle free, usage from my M1 mini Mac. With my pc sitting idly by. Instead of modding and updating a pc, along with all the surprises that are hiding along the way, I will just be a happy customer, and use my Mac until I feel it is time to get a new one. And when (and if) that day comes the change to the new machine will be even easier that my first Mac install. The Macs will communicate like mature little devices and all my stuff will be ready to go in minutes. I have not once felt that the Mac mini was even close to being more expensive than a comparable pc, I just get to spend my time using it instead of being flummoxed by some new problem that came while I slept. edit// and I still enjoy using my little Mac in silence, one of the big reasons why I went to Macs is because I really got sick of the cacophony of PC noises (and I did run through a few "quiet fans, tweaked BIOS, "quiet case, yada yada, it still sounds like an x-wing spooling up when the PC runs).

I do appreciate all the Apple envy, or criticism. Please continue to do what you can to help keep those prices down.

"Not fully compatible with Apple" yep. right there.
I've never had that issue with any of the 6-10 clones I've built.
To each his own.
If however, you complain about Apple, as in the "Will Apple Shut Off Your Audio Gear" I'm going to reserve the right to agree.

 

[Elwood]

I've never had that issue with any of the 6-10 clones I've built.
To each his own.

Ha! I guess I reserve the right to have a faulty memory then. Without doing any archive research I do seem to recall some members being a bit "challenged" during the last round of postings about their new PC builds. Some expressed some frustration? Naw. I guess my memory is faulty?

No matter what you are doing, things always work better if you use the right stuff with the right stuff. "Compatibility" applies to more than mate selection. I definitely do recall that "compatibility" is a primary concern when selecting the components for any pc build. Oh, and some of those compatible parts for the pc build don't come cheap either.

How do you value your time? I used to be a proud builder of things that were readily available. Now, I value my time more than that. I found a product line where "plug and play" is more than a slogan. I just brought my new baby home and plugged and played. Shucks, it even came with a top line DAW with free upgrades for only $200.00 added to the cost of the build. Let's see ya top that!

Now the last pc I built will chug along (when called upon) until it is no longer compatible with its own operating system. That's OK, I have found a better way to skin the cat... Apple. Shhhh, don't wake the others, it will certainly drive the prices up.

Signed,
Lovin those PCs.

 

[TexBill]

Here is my question relating to all the comments above........
When did the industry adopt the term "digital ecosystem” used to describe the combination of technologies?

The first time I recall hearing "ecosystem" I went "WTF" not what you may think it is....

As @PapaRaptor has outlined in the way technology outdated his Phone System, I too have experienced changes that have made perfectly functioning machines destined for the RECYCLE BIN.....

One piece I currently have that may fall victim to MS is my laptop that came with Win10. A limiting factor may be (haven't exhausted all sources yet) is the lack of TPM 2.0. Just started looking into whether or not this generation of MOBO has TPM>>>>>>>
According to MS Health checkup for Win11 TPM is required...... So do I go that way or just wait till Oct. 2025 and replace it if I need the capability of portable computer.......

 

[PapaRaptor]

So do I go that way or just wait till Oct. 2025 and replace it if I need the capability of portable computer.......

Just because it hits end of support doesn't mean it won't continue to be functional for some time.
Many of Wal-Mart's self checkout terminals were running Windows XP as recently as 2013.

 

[PapaRaptor]

Ha! I guess I reserve the right to have a faulty memory then. Without doing any archive research I do seem to recall some members being a bit "challenged" during the last round of postings about their new PC builds. Some expressed some frustration? Naw. I guess my memory is faulty?

I haven't built a clone for probably close to a decade, but there is certainly a point at which it becomes more prudent to buy an appliance instead of building it yourself. I don't think I've reached that point yet, but it's getting close.

It's like most things in life. What is your peace of mind worth? Buying an Apple means you can pick something they offer, plug it in and the probability it will work is extremely high. Or you can spend time learning and assembling your own Windows machine and build it exactly the way you want.

It doesn't strike me as that much different from buying a new car vs. building a hot rod.

 

[TexBill]

Hot Rods? @PapaRaptor a hot rod builder, well U concealed that creativity gene well....LOL

No, I agree with the analogy of peace of mind vs having someone build a PC for you. Almost twenty years have passed since the last assemblage of a variety of parts with the final outcome called a custom PC. I reached a point early on when I could get the parts I ordered assembled for a very small fee in comparison to my hourly fee to put together a machine the customer wanted. The added price being passed on to the consumer more than offset the frustration level of enduring assembly.

And to the "Choir" I do recall there were several who complained about Win 11 and incompatibility issues with certain software packages. Not to mention the inability to easily locate certain aspects of the "NEW LOOK" of Win 11. With each passing day, the thunderous roar of discontent has subsided to a much lower rumble.....

Now as Win 10 support wanes on the horizon, I will continue using (sparingly as the case may be), a win 10 laptop until I either upgrade to win 11 or find a non internet connected purpose for it. This is based on my discovery of the absence of TPM on the laptop.... Should have done a more thorough research into the features before purchasing. Can only blame myself on that front.....

 

[Elwood]

It doesn't strike me as that much different from buying a new car vs. building a hot rod.

Bingo! The last motorcycle I bought was a new (2001) 1200cc Suzuki. In the first year I ripped all the emission stuff off of it, put on a Yoshi exhaust, changed the timing, changed the carb jets and properly synched them, changed the suspension and brakes, and added some 12v access for my vest and radar detector. It would defecate and git!!!
I always enjoyed tuning my own cars, including my 735i and 535i bimmers (the 535 was 1 of 200 imported in the "M-sport" config for that year, a small block v8 with 50 - 50 weight distribution and a six speed manual xmission. It did not hold up traffic - the kid that I sold it to wrecked it in a week, and I warned him!)
If I couldn't have a sporty comfortable car or a fast bike there was always a Ford truck around, years with a Ranger and my F-150, what a fine truck they both were!
January this year I made the last cut and no longer have any of that, except for three tool boxes. I got myself a new Mazda CX-5, not a turbo - it's plenty fast if you use the long flat pedal - with 8 years of dealer service written into the purchase agreement, with the most reputable dealer within range of me. All I do is keep air in the tires, put gas in the tank and my ass in the seat. No flood risk or doubtful history, I tracked it as it crossed the sea from Hiroshima to me (a Japanese car, made in Japan, by Japanese, the fit and finish is "just so"). Easy for me to get in and out of, and I don't have to park a mile away from where I am going. And Apple car play is welcome to nag me to unfamiliar destinations (how cool is that anyway, I can load up my trip in the house on my phone, walk out to the car, and just follow directions, ha!)
So Papa, you are dead on with your abstract comparison. Times change and what I am will to spend it on has too. I was just visiting a long time friend, he has been an Apple guy forever. We used to go like cats and dogs over his stinking Macs and my fondness for PCs. Now he gets the last laugh on this matter, and I get Macs. I always figure that if you are not willing to change, no matter, change is coming regardless.
I have sung the praises of the PC, now I just settle for a nice serving of crow now and then and enjoy my trouble free cyber life in the Mac world.
No chance of me going back the other way. I do enjoy the banter though. And I do appreciate the PC loyalist very much, keep keeping prices as low as possible please.

 

[MarkDyson]

Heh. I've already griped at long length about the trials and tribulations of trying to get good high end PCs for my 3D animation and VFX studio, that led me to abandon them and jump into the walled garden. I have an analogy of my own: I traded spending hours under the hood of my hot rod for a ready-to-go Formula One racer that Just Worked. No more production time lost in care and feeding of my tools.

 

[TexBill]

Heh. I've already griped at long length about the trials and tribulations of trying to get good high end PCs for my 3D animation and VFX studio, that led me to abandon them and jump into the walled garden. I have an analogy of my own: I traded spending hours under the hood of my hot rod for a ready-to-go Formula One racer that Just Worked. No more production time lost in care and feeding of my tools.

Mark from the standpoint of production in a graphic world, you get no argument from me.

I have told numerous individuals that if we all had learned MAC OS in the beginning, there would not have been IBM Desktops that found their way into the CLONE WORLD.

I have supported both and after getting near the pinnacle of the learning curve, I began to appreciate and understand the MAC OS at a level never before dreamed of. I used a MacBook Pro with Retina for roughly 3 years before retiring. I almost went MacBook Pro upon making the decision on when I would officially retire. Looking back, maybe I should have spent the extra $1000 and got one. Then again, there is the obsolescence conundrum Mac users are facing shortly..... Never a win win scenario, is there?

After doing more research, there is no guarantee that Win 11 will function properly on a device that has not been equipped with at least TPM 1.2. So the day will come when my win 10 laptop will no longer be updated......

 

[MarkDyson]

I have told numerous individuals that if we all had learned MAC OS in the beginning, there would not have been IBM Desktops that found their way into the CLONE WORLD.

My first computer interactions (in the late 70s) were in the UNIX world, and that's where I stayed until I got my first C-64 in the 80s. It was a long while before I got my first machine running MS-DOS (v4).

One of my favorite parts about MACOS is that it's really BSD Linux with a sexy GUI in front of it. Under the covers it runs *NIX and I can happily run command line tools, shell scripts, PERL and PYTHON and all of the other tools that have been the industry standard for over fifty years. When I was forced to use a Windows machine for development work at Northrop Grumman I (and everyone else on my teams) just used it as a front end to run Red Hat Enterprise Linux virtual machines so we didn't have to deal with all the MS nonsense that bedevils developers.

Windows has become a rather solid OS, and it's perfectly fine for most normal uses. It's just that in my personal experience for some activities it's a hassle, especially in the realms where you have to worry about stuff at the metal level, and driver compatibility issues.

 

[MarkDyson]

Heh. Speaking of hot rods....

 

[MikeS]

Ha! I guess I reserve the right to have a faulty memory then. Without doing any archive research I do seem to recall some members being a bit "challenged" during the last round of postings about their new PC builds. Some expressed some frustration? Naw. I guess my memory is faulty?

No matter what you are doing, things always work better if you use the right stuff with the right stuff. "Compatibility" applies to more than mate selection. I definitely do recall that "compatibility" is a primary concern when selecting the components for any pc build. Oh, and some of those compatible parts for the pc build don't come cheap either.

How do you value your time? I used to be a proud builder of things that were readily available. Now, I value my time more than that. I found a product line where "plug and play" is more than a slogan. I just brought my new baby home and plugged and played. Shucks, it even came with a top line DAW with free upgrades for only $200.00 added to the cost of the build. Let's see ya top that!

Now the last pc I built will chug along (when called upon) until it is no longer compatible with its own operating system. That's OK, I have found a better way to skin the cat... Apple. Shhhh, don't wake the others, it will certainly drive the prices up.

Signed,
Lovin those PCs.

I think you are remembering the process not the end result.

 

[MarkDyson]

I think you are remembering the process not the end result.

The making of the sausage is never pretty.

 

[ChrisGSP]

One of my favorite parts about MACOS is that it's really BSD Linux with a sexy GUI in front of it.

Yay !! I've been waiting for MS to introduce WindX for years. Trouble is, being Microsoft they would have to recompile the core to incorporate NetBeui compatibility and gross memory mismanagement before they released it. Apple did a good job with Os/X.
If Microsoft could be trusted to keep their fingers out of the Kernel, X-Windows is already well-developed and stable across many (?all?) hardware platforms, and would easily replace MS Windows.