How to use triads - target chord tones and play back and forth and in between chord tones

[CraigHollander]

Thank the lord you found that error, The charts were cut and pasted to show the evolution minor chord to shape to pentatonic minor scale to minor scale and triads . When I transferred did not see fret marks and did not catch that one missing word shape next to Em in the instruction pdf those 2 things would screw everyone ujp . here is fixed which turned into a hour long format nightmare. I just was able to cover frets markers with X. Everyone ignore the X it's nothing to do with anything. Erv let me know if all good now please and any other errors thank you.

 

[CraigHollander]

Good Morning

part 1 how I learned and started using CAGED in 3 days. Its a whole 6 pages ( 1 was intro 1 was list of videos) 4 pages of material and 5 pages of guitar pdf. Thank to Erv for finding 2 mistakes I had made that would have screwed everyone up and I fixed that in last post. Now it's time for the short videos which "triggered" me to understand all this and more. A few thoughts

-If you want this to work and learn how to apply it in less than 1 week do not watch these videos before you understand the charts and few pages of material I sent out. Follow the steps carefully and if you are not getting it post questions here.
-When you watch the videos you will see him use minor chords not just Dom 7 and also Maj Pentatonic and Minor and Major Scales at times.
-Do not get thrown off. The "system" works with any chord family and the scales you use depends on the chords not the other way around.
- I kept to the main objectives to start with in PDF Soloing and playing over changes targeting chord tones in 12 bar blues. I limited only to only dom 7 chord soling with minor pentatonic as well to keep it small so anyone can get a handle on the system fast.
-Unless you can already do this easily dont screw up learning it by. trying to soon to move to use Major Peantatonic other families of chords or major minor modes .
-Watching the videos is to let you see an expert doing the system how it sounds and get ideas from each video .
-Just know this in relation to BGU I looked at the courses last night and what this is doing is bring together multiple deep dive courses into 1 system you can use all of it.. CAGED-Soloing Without Scales-Essential Blues Chords-Modes-Modern Blues Soloing and later when more advanced Chord by Soloing, Major Minor blues scale (mixing) and harmonic Minor. its going to help you master all BGU material.
-When you look at all the courses and take out the backing tracks , the how to play like , the speed builders , the how to construct , etc and look for only the ones that are instructional on how to solo that kinda is all of them . Thats the point of BGU it's broken down into amazing material about each but if you never see how to use it all together how it fits how are you going to be the best player you can be?
-Its all up to you what you want but I am the guy like many who tried for so long and this is how my ability has exploded by seeing how it all fits together and how to apply and execute it.

I hope that my effort to document how the hell I finally "get " it helps many people who are frustrated or just beginning to learn.

Here are the videos

Is CAGED worth the TROUBLE for guitar?

Since starting my YouTube guitar lessons channel, people have often commented things like, "you seem to be teaching the CAGED system without mentioning the C...

youtu.be

Note the title is sarcasm. He says why I hate CAGED but then is teaching CAGED What he ireally s saying that the way it is taught in general has made it very difficult to learn and students hate it but its key to playing over the changes and not really hard he explains the main roadblocks to learning it and how he is going to show you its easy to learn.


I would watch in this order
=========================

Uncover the Secret to Soloing Over Chord Changes - Soloing Made Simple!

I can't tell you how many times students have come here for guitar lessons and asked, "How can I solo over the chord changes?" Or "How can I break out of Min...

youtu.be

He has videos with similar names on same subject but after watching although some repeat info each one has something very useful so I would watch all of them

Solo on guitar like a pro! Target notes the easy way!

The music theory books may tell you to memorize all your intervals by letter names, but we guitar players know that's not actually how we play and think abou...

youtu.be

Target Notes the Easy Way (guitar solos to the next level)

Take your guitar solos to the next level by learning to target chord tones in your solos the easy way. Guitar teacher from Vancouver, Blue Morris, shows you ...

youtu.be

Guitar Soloing Like a Pro ... NEXT LEVEL!

Learn how to combine chords and scales and create your own solos using these simple techniques from the guitar instructional book "Guitar Soloing Like a Pro"...

youtu.be

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Triads on Guitar: What's the Point???

There are a number of videos on triads on the guitar here already, but the thing that many videos miss out is that we need to do more than just memorize tria...

youtu.be

Triads what they are and what they do for you.

Most useful CAGED chord shape on guitar?

Is this THE most useful CAGED chord shape? We are often taught how to move the A shape up the guitar fretboard, and the E shape to form bar chords. But the D...

youtu.be

The most useful CAGED chord shape?

Unlock chord-scale connectors on the guitar

Combining chords and scales on the guitar is something that so many guitar students ask me about in their lessons with me here in Vancouver. To many, it seem...

youtu.be

This is how to connect it one box to next smoothly

Can you play CHORDS and SOLO at the SAME TIME?

Many students ask me in our guitar lessons here in Vancouver how they can combine the 12-bar blues form and soloing at the same time. There's a specific meth...

youtu.be

This is now showing you much like BGU slow blues construction blueprint a way to practice going back and forth chords and licks in a 8 bar blues format that you can just repeat over and over playing. Not only format just easy to start hearing it all come together

 

[Paleo]

I'll risk a few comments.

1) Most of the CAGED "resistance" I've heard comes from "shredders" who play "3-note per string scales" which do not "fit" with CAGED chord shapes.

2) There's a difference between being "pattern based" and "theory based".

Starting with 5 chord shapes you can learn 5 more patterns of where the other notes of a pentatonic scale fall around it.

And then 5 more patterns of where the 2 more notes of diatonic scales fall around the previous patterns.


Whereas starting with a scale you harmonize it to derive the chords that go with it.

Then when soloing you use the scale the chords were derived from.

You already know where all the scale degrees are that "surround" any chord you built from the scale.

Labeling scale degrees the way we do in patterns makes no sense without the Major scale for reference.

Starting with a Major scale and knowing scale and chord formulas I can create any scale or chord imaginable.

And play them in any position by knowing where all the scale degrees are surrounding a root note anywhere on the neck.

I heard the comment that "a scale is designed to fit a chord" which is just the opposite of how chords are derived from scales.


3) I first saw all the diagrams in Bill Edwards' book "Fretboard Logic" that I bought 40 years ago.


I don't make value judgments and I refuse to engage in arguments.

I merely point things out.

It's great that you saw the connections and put it all together.

It's just not the only way to fly.

 

[CraigHollander]

It's not the only way to fly but in my case its the way I have made massive progress again in 8 days?

LOL The Scientist

 

[Paleo]

.., in my case its the way I have made massive progress again in 8 days?

I think you’ve already mentioned that a couple of times.

And again, that’s great.

For you.

How about coming down to the VJR and honoring us with a sample of your massive progress.

 

[CraigHollander]

-I am singing off for some time. Done

- Instead of even responding to your last text as I get the meaning I am doing this

- Taking the BGU and outside material and grabbing my son who never played in his life and going to teach him using all the bullshit I have been trying to help those on the board not those who can play but those who are stuck and some if you read the post depressed and angry and ready to quite trying.

- The proof will be when I reappear for the last time with the practice logs and the video of him playing , I think he will be better then I am in less than 6 months because he didnt have to break all the wrong habits and because I will show him how to practice and learn this in a different way that you do not understand right now. Same material different learning approach.
I will keep practice logs when I teach him and how and then post video in say 3 months.

While I am gone best to all including you

many years of happy playing

Scientist signing off

 

[Jay Dee]

Looking forward to the results. Be well, peace.

 

[ervjohns]

Craig, again thank you for the effort of documenting this process. In reviewing the material I think it is one part of learning the fretboard, but not the only one. For instance I use the 5th string roots to find box 3 and 4. The C7 is a movable chord and using that depends of knowing the 5 th string roots. Then there are all the horizontal shortcuts for major and minor that most of us have learned. Again if this worked for you it may help others as well.

Erv

 

[Jay Dee]

This is inside my brain at the moment. Changes daily.

 

[Paleo]

One request can bring down an empire?

Who knew!

 

[Tayport]

#4 on your list, knowing the root notes on all six strings is something that I am working on right now. I am not finding it easy, but it will really help if I can get it down.

 

[Paleo]

The proof will be when I reappear for the last time with the practice logs and the video of him playing ,

That won't be proof of anything.

It will just be documentation of what he can do after 3 months of your teaching.

You'll have no control group comparing what someone can learn during those same 3 months by following somebody else's more "conventional" methods.

Also, you can't compare the two of you because he'll be learning from scratch while you already had a history with guitar before your "awakening" on December 19th.

A "scientist" is aware that it is his duty to provide evidence of his claims and it's the duty of other scientists to scrutinize that evidence as well as the experimental design used to gather that evidence.

You've put together a lot of seemingly disparate information into a more ordered system that helped you make more progress in a short amount of time.

Again, that's great.

You've provided evidence of how you compiled that information. You've come up with procedures and chronologies of how and when to implement that information.

However, you haven't provided any evidence of your newly acquired improvement in actually playing the guitar.

You've memorized 50 licks.

You can play the "Boss" level 4 licks in Blues Speeding Blocks.

That's really impressive.

I can't do either of those things.

I would really like to hear some of that from you.


You've asked for feedback along the way.

And when it's given your usual response is that we just don't understand.

That's going to put more people off than it is to draw people in.

Believe it or not I understand everything you've said and every video you've asked us to watch.

I and others have tried to point out flaws in some of the things you've said, but you really don't want to hear it.

That's why I "risk" making comments.

What you don't understand is that we're all actually trying to help.

If you don't want to deal with these things now be prepared for them to come back up again 3 months from now.

Good luck regardless.

 

[CraigHollander]

" I don't make value judgments and I refuse to engage in arguments." You said that .

I wish you had actually done that and not sent yet another one out directed at me today.

You could have waited and seen how my son did with my method or learning BGU material.

Instead you shot the idea down and called me out a second time to play something now?

That could be perceived as calling me a liar 2x in last 24 hours?

So I tell you what I will answer your challenge but on my terms . I made clear I am a student not an expert. I recognized that I was having huge success with approaching things in a non standard way that might benefit all the people who come on this site including in just the last month despondent at not being able to make gains not being able to play . I was them so I admitted as well I could not really play until these last 2 months but yes I can now at lower intermediate level . never said I was a master . I said my way of learning is working. I will show you what will be 5 months of progress . Not 5 years because I was no better than all the other guys who come on lost and sad they couldn't play 2. months ago.

I want to thank you. You have assured I will get 50 x better in next 3 months. Motivation works wonders . Note new goal produce the best video I can of playing solos by may 15th present to forum.

P.S I did not call myself the scientist Early on someone said I feel like I am in Science class. I thought I was being funny?

All see you in 90 days and Have fun play guitar!

All the best !

 

[CraigHollander]

It has been brought to my attention that Griff does not recommend using box 4 5th string root minor over the iV or IV chord. I saw his chart and I
he says technically yes but you will not like sound. So I need to respond to that before all of you who are trying to use the pdf trash it . Can not do it now will later today. Thanks

 

[Paleo]

You have assured I will get 50 x better in next 3 months. Note new goal produce the best video I can of playing solos by may 15th present to forum.

Again, you will need some baseline to show that on the 15th of May you are 50% better than you are today.

You'll need some way to objectively measure your improvement.

I'm assuming your goal is to show people how much better your new approach is and what it can do for them.

You will not have proven that you can play solos any better than taking a random person off the street, handing them a book and giving them 3 months to learn.

If you don't understand that I'm actually trying to help you show what you want to show, please either ask for clarification or simply ignore me. And, as I said before, be prepared for people to bring it up again on the 15th of May.

People will judge your efforts on their terms.

Good luck either way.

 

[PapaRaptor]

It has been brought to my attention that Griff does not recommend using box 4 5th string root minor over the iV or IV chord. I saw his chart and I
he says technically yes but you will not like sound. So I need to respond to that before all of you who are trying to use the pdf trash it . Can not do it now will later today. Thanks

I'm not sure what you meant by "iV or IV." Can you clarify?
Can you cite where he says this, please?

 

[CraigHollander]

Papa I dont have time to fully fix this right now . I will fix by sunday. I do understand what griff is saying in this pdf but.... there is a but to it when looking at it from this angle . It will cause. a problem if I do not explain clearly the statement about using box IV over the 4 or 5 chord which is the box with the root on the 5th string. See attached This applies to Minor Penatonic playing which I limited the focus of my pdf to. I am coming back to fix it because I dont want to confuse people the opposite of what I am trying to do . To dat Erv found a little problem because I was cutting pasting charts and I fixed as well as one left out word in the pdf that altered intent. Fixing things to make this 4 pages flow perfect not a problem and that is fine to point out. I do want to expand on why I think he is saying technically yes but you won't like the sound much and how you can do it with a bit of added info. Thank you

 

[CraigHollander]

Paleo

I see you are making an attempt to explain and understand why I got frustrated with you. You do not get it, this last post you are doing it yet again. I am not responding one more time to this. I will fix the pdf then dark for 3 months then posting video and see if I want to come on live.

Timeline
- I come on after nearly 3 years of watching you all post . I just didnt post.
-I was stuck with all the knowledge in the world put like many could not effortlessly execute , rarely. played full songs , and could not just jump in and play. I made this clear and as you point out many times since
-1 month later I updated on how many days I actually got to practice and how many hours. To encourage others what works with newbies and people who appear all the time trying and trying for years and cant play
-I stated at the end of a month I had done the following
1- worked on memorization skills. -we went back and forth on this topic and I reported from never memorizing I ingrained all 50 licks in slow blues by the box course. I checked after a week of not being able to play once yesterday... still got them.
2-Playing at speed smoothly and I said I could not do speed builders I reported after 1 month being able to pretty easily do level 3 top speed and level 4 was at 85-90% its same now due to working on topic we are now on
3- I fixed all my physical playing changed so much to be able to execute licks clean and fast when needed.
Hand position finger position how I was holding pick muting arm position bends pull off hammers etc all discussed here on thread
4-I worked on my guitar tone actually not using pre sets that suck and we still are talking about spark amp because of the value and many own it

so how do you not know my baseline. Clearly my knowledge is high and since I can do some decent playing with tab I cant say not beginner player I would say upper intermediate about to be expert knowledge once I fix 2 things in my shape system and intermediate lower half about to go to upper half on actual playing. Being expert is going to take the final phase of proving to myself not to you or anyone that I can jump in with a band and carry it that I can memorize and play through a full set of songs and that I can jam alone by moving back and forth chords to licks etc

You have different definition fine but not effect me..

- What happened FEB 1 was not planned I stumbled across the way to put it all together when I started to try to apply to play all the 1st months work and attempted to help people by them watching anidiot who took so long to figure it out do it? That is why I didnt practice past week I am getting this all down and as I break out sharing how. Getting all the methods down.

No one including you has to believe it has to follow it but does not change the fact it's working.


I dont need to show you what level my playing is at right now I have documented for 2 months . I never claimed to be an expert or even be ready to jam out. So why do you keep asking me to prove it by playing now. I dont want people actually hearing me when I am not at the level I want to be . I think in 3 months I get on and you are like wow he is playing nice really good are you thinking impossible he must have lied and been able to do it before ?

I am not lying I am not opposed if I make a mistake somewhere in my thinking or any video or info I share I am upset with you because if you realize or dont its saying I am a liar .

If handing someone a book and a guitar is how people get good in 3 months you have not been reading all the post from desperate people who have all this great BGU material and still can play and are really upset or the lost newbies who dont know even how to handle or start they pop in and out all the time. Everything you need is in BGU with a different spin on how to learn it. You are not connecting with that . If I am wrong we would not have the thread if you need to learn guitar again all over how would you do it and you know what I agree with a little of it but its not clear because people are falling back into the same patterns again regardless of a few points . .

For the sake of the group and my sanity I will fix what I already posted then going away for 3 months to get down to business. I have a friend here lives next door he is going to have coffee this weekend with me and He is expert level at guitar drums and sings can even tell you what chord and scale you are playing by ear and he will striagten out a few questions and I will fix pdf.

I am not hating on you. maybe its my fault that you cant understand or others what I am trying to do . I dont care that you disagree with my method and have your own thats fine whatever works what I think happens when you respond the way you do is it discourages lurkers on the forum and guys having problems to speak out or even try new ideas .

If you dont mean to call me a liar fine then drop it and wait the 3 month. I may even come on to board live if I can just get back to practice and finish this last topic off . I will take critique of my playing but no one. is going to tell me that I lied about how I get to that point or already was at it . thats nuts when I document each step and would not waste my time I was trying to help people like me who are frustrated .

Please drop it I do not want to go back and forth again on this. I will fix what I put up. then I am going dark for 3 months .



My question

 

[PapaRaptor]

Papa I dont have time to fully fix this right now . I will fix by sunday. I do understand what griff is saying in this pdf but.... there is a but to it when looking at it from this angle . It will cause. a problem if I do not explain clearly the statement about using box IV over the 4 or 5 chord which is the box with the root on the 5th string. See attached This applies to Minor Penatonic playing which I limited the focus of my pdf to. I am coming back to fix it because I dont want to confuse people the opposite of what I am trying to do . To dat Erv found a little problem because I was cutting pasting charts and I fixed as well as one left out word in the pdf that altered intent. Fixing things to make this 4 pages flow perfect not a problem and that is fine to point out. I do want to expand on why I think he is saying technically yes but you won't like the sound much and how you can do it with a bit of added info. Thank you

I see what you mean, but your interpretation of what Griff says in this chart is not accurate, which is why I asked for a citation. This chart isn't talking about boxes. Which box you use (1,2,3,4, or 5) makes no difference in how good or bad it is going to sound, as they all contain the exact same notes. Different octaves, but the same notes. Edited to add: Just to keep in mind, the boxes are usually notated in arabic (1,2,3, etc.) numerals, while the relative chord positions in a scale are in roman numerals (I,ii,iii,IV,V,vi,vii), with lower case indicating minor and upper case indicating major. The excption is the vii, which is diminished.

Griff's chart says that using the IV Pentatonic Minor over the IV chord isn't going to sound very good, just like he also says that using the V Pentatonic Minor over the V chord isn't going to sound very good. Pure and simple.

As an example, for a blues in C, using his chart, you can play anything in that column. which includes the C Major penta and the C Minor Penta. When you move to the IV chord (F), while you can play anything in the IV column, he points out that playing the IV minor pent (F minor penta) is going to suck.
Likewise in the V chord (G), playing the V (G) minor penta is not going to end well.

 

[PapaBear]

I read the PDF and looked at all the videos, I can see there is some benefit in them, especially for a beginner trying to get to intermediate level.
Sometimes it's good to have a different way of looking at things. I don't see where Craig was discouraging Griff's methods, I think he even stated these concepts might help some who struggle to grasp them or some aspect of them.