Why does the minor pentatonic fit a major blues

[Griff]

Mind you, I'm well aware , that my analysis doesn't say anything about where the minor pentatonic originates from, and it doesn't explain the nature of blues music either - far from it - that was never my intention. But countless are the times, I have heard that the minor pentatonic doesn't fit theory and playing b3rd over a dom7th chord breaks the rules.
Many people, me included, have wondered why it works and I don't think I have ever heard a proper explanation - it's always "it just works", no more. So my only intention has been to show, that playing minor pentatonic over a standard blues progression actually fits theory, and no rules are broken by doing so, and I think, I have done that. It requires, that we accept playing #9's instead of b3rd's and accept that we bend the rules when naming the notes - otherwise we would have 7 names for just 5 notes, and that's not practical when putting them together in a scale.

I agree. Certainly my innate desire to have a solid explanation LOVES the #9 idea instead of calling it a b3rd. It's a simple shift that, from a jazz theory perspective at least, makes all the sense in the world.

From a classical theory perspective, I wouldn't know what to call it. But in classical theory they have things like French Augmented 6th chords that, to a jazz player, are just dominant 7th chords with a different spelling. Their are French, German, and Italian versions and how they resolve is what sets them apart. But I can't remember the specifics (I have needed that information in a loooooooong time.)

But I would bet that, if we could do the digging, we could somehow explain all of it precisely and it would be something to do with those chords.

 

[david moon]

Well here's a whole Wikipedia article about those chords (which I've never encountered before)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augmented_sixth_chord

 

[blackcoffeeblues]

After reading all of that>>>>I rememberd why I don't visit this space. Somebody said; (I think it was Janis Joplin)---"if it feels good, do it". don't need no more reasons.

 

[Paleo]

This is the "Theory Zone". One should expect to encounter people discussing theory.

 

[Bolar]

After reading all of that>>>>I rememberd why I don't visit this space. Somebody said; (I think it was Janis Joplin)---"if it feels good, do it". don't need no more reasons.

It obviously worked for Janis, and it will probably work equally well for others with great talent, but it might not work so well for more average talented people. I for one, and maybe a few others here, need a little more help to reach our goals.
Sadly, I have heard people with lesser talents doing it in the way you describes, - sadly, because the results are often horrible.
Sometimes I hear someone say: It worked for JB or BB or SRV or EC rarely uses his pinky, so why should I? Well, those guys are talented way above average, so assuming their ways will work equally well for anyone is quite possibly a mistake, unless they have a similar amount of talent.
That said, I don't think theory is the only way, but for me there's a lot to be gained from that. I believe, that if something works, there's always some kind of logic behind it, and where there's a logic, it can be explained. Anyone who can actually play well, always have some sort of understanding of that logic ( there can most likely be more than one kind). Whether they can put it into words or not doesn't really matter.
As for the above analysis, Finding a way to explain it is ofc nice, but it's not the most importent part, since the explanation had to be there. What surprised me, was, that 9 notes would fit all 3 chords, so a new question came up: What can I do with those 9 notes in a blues context?
And that's the importent thing for me - any answer always leads to a new question, which might lead to a new answer, that leads to a new question........etc. It's a chainreaction, that helps me expand my possibilities and hopefully grow as a musician.

 

[david moon]

It obviously worked for Janis, and it will probably work equally well for others with great talent, but it might not work so well for more average talented people. I for one, and maybe a few others here, need a little more help to reach our goals.
Sadly, I have heard people with lesser talents doing it in the way you describes, - sadly, because the results are often horrible.
Sometimes I hear someone say: It worked for JB or BB or SRV or EC rarely uses his pinky, so why should I? Well, those guys are talented way above average, so assuming their ways will work equally well for anyone is quite possibly a mistake, unless they have a similar amount of talent.
That said, I don't think theory is the only way, but for me there's a lot to be gained from that. I believe, that if something works, there's always some kind of logic behind it, and where there's a logic, it can be explained. Anyone who can actually play well, always have some sort of understanding of that logic ( there can most likely be more than one kind). Whether they can put it into words or not doesn't really matter.
As for the above analysis, Finding a way to explain it is ofc nice, but it's not the most importent part, since the explanation had to be there. What surprised me, was, that 9 notes would fit all 3 chords, so a new question came up: What can I do with those 9 notes in a blues context?
And that's the importent thing for me - any answer always leads to a new question, which might lead to a new answer, that leads to a new question........etc. It's a chainreaction, that helps me expand my possibilities and hopefully grow as a musician.

I also need to know the theory/logic behind whatever, not just put your fingers here and it will sound good.

 

[JPsuff]

I think it's one of those things that you just accept as a gift.

Kinda like playing golf and hitting a blind approach shot and discovering that your ball ended up two-feet from the hole.

You don't ask why...you just look to the sky, say "Thank you" and go on from there. : )

 

[Griff]

@Bolar I was thinking about this a bit more, and I think it might help to differentiate between "inside" extensions (9,11,13) and "outside" extensions (b9, #9, b5, #5) in your attempt to make sense of it.

And I also think you have to take into account the fact that the #9 extension is one we are all comfortable with. Had "Purple Haze" been written using E7b9 instead, would we still like it? I don't know, but I do know that the #9 extension goes over WAY easier than the b9 extension. And both of those go over WAY easier than the b5 or #5.

Traditional theory came after the music, as a way to explain what the composers were doing. So in blues, I think we have to take the same approach, which would lead to the conclusion that people figured out that the #9 sound was a good sound (it's very much the "blues" sound) and it remained.

I'm not sure I have a point here... I guess I'm rambling. I was just thinking about it this morning and thought it might help shed some light.

 

[Justatele]

years ago Griff told me you can get certain tones to have a discussion but others will start an argument. I think we were having an lesson about the lydian dominant mode. But it makes sense here. the two thirds seem to cause discussion, and dominant sevenths also fit.