Where did that house come from?

Elio

Elio

Student Of The Blues
I am usually successful at figuring this stuff out with some perseverance, but I am scratching my head over this one. Solo 5 from 5EBS is a moderate tempo blues in E. Griff uses the minor house pattern at the top of box 2 beginning on the 3rd fret for the minor sound (annotated with stars on my diagram) . That makes perfect sense, since E is the relative minor of G, and box 2 for G starts with it's root on the 3rd fret. To left would be the major house pattern of box 2 for E starting box 2 on E (which is the open string) for essentially 1/2 of the major house pattern -- the other half being the open strings.

However, @Griff is using also another major house pattern starting on the 5th fret and right-facing (noted with circles on my diagram). If that is part of box 2, it would be starting on the root note of A on the 5th fret. Where is this one coming from? I know I'm missing something incredibly obvious here but am just not seeing it. What am I missing?E house patterns.gif

E house patterns.gif
 
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Paleo

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
Short answer, the Major House isn't a part of Box 2 and the root is still E on the 2nd string, 5th fret.

The Major House pattern (1-2-4-5-6) isn't a scale and doesn't come from any other pattern. It's closest to "upper" Major Box 4. (1-2-3-5-6)

If you moved your circle on the 5th fret of the 1st string (A) down 1 fret to the 4th (G#) it would be the Major 3rd of E Major rather than the 4 and you would have Box 4 with a lower root, E, on the 5th string 7th fret.

However, you can bend the 2 (F#) on the 2nd string up to the 3 to make a Major scale.
 
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david moon

david moon

Attempting the Blues
The Stars are in the Em pent and set up a minor feel. From bottom to top, 5, b7, 1, b3, 4

The Os set up a major feel in the same key, from bottom to top, 3(major), 1, 2, 5, 6.
 
Paleo

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
david moon said:
The Os set up a major feel in the same key, from bottom to top, 3(major), 1, 2, 5, 6.
Click to expand...
The Os from bottom to top are C#-E-F#-A-B (6-1-2-4-5). There is no 3rd.

The Major house is not a "scale". (1-2-4-5-6)

To get a Major sound you bend the 2 (F#) up to a 3 (G#).

You can also get a minor sound by only bending the 2 up to G, the b3.
 
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Elio

Elio

Student Of The Blues
Paleo said:
A brief amateur demo from "a student":

https://dl.dropbox.com/s/0yzm3o2kiac19qe/E Houses.mp4?dl=0


A professional demo from "the teacher":

http://bluesguitarunleashed.com/blog/the-house-pattern/
Click to expand...

Thank you for taking the time to reply! I think your explanation is helpful but I'm still thinking about this. I wasn't thinking that the house pattern is a scale but but from the video page, Griff's illustration of the right-facing and left-facing house patterns for the major and minor describes exactly how I have always thought of the box patterns. To switch from a box 1 minor to a major pentatonic scale, one can start the box 2 pattern on the respective root note, which then produces the left facing house pattern which is part of the major pentatonic scale.

In this case, the pattern he is using is one more to the right of the right-facing house pattern produced by playing box 1 on the root note. Since I would not normally expect to find another major house pattern located to the right of the minor house pattern, I am trying to figure out whether that pattern to the right of the "minor" house pattern (I know that it is not a scale but I am calling it minor because that is how Griff referred to it) is associated with the location of a predictable pentatonic box, or whether it just happens to be there. I don't see that working in any other key. As I am writing this, my question is now sounding a little lame but I tend to associate the scales to spatial patterns so I am trying to satisfy my curiosity.
 
A

Al Holloway

Devizes UK
From Griff's lesson. The BBBox is neither major or minor. The major and minor are found by bending the (in your diagram) 7th fret 2nd string. I think it is a half bend for minor and a whole bend for major.

cheers

Al.
 
Paleo

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
@Elio

I think I've figured out what's confusing you.

The House patterns exist in only one specific place for any given root.

With the root on the second string.

(Back in November 2017 we had a challenge regarding playing Major & minor from this "core area".)

THE Major House pattern only exists to the right of and is "attached to" the minor house.

They share a "wall". The root on the 2nd string and the 4 on the first.

In your example, the shared root is E on the second string, 5th fret.

If you want to play a minor pentatonic scale from this root you have Box 2 to the left and Box 3 to the right.

If you want to play a Major pentatonic scale from this root you have Box 3 to the left and Box 4 to the right.


To the left, "upper" Box 2 and the minor house are the same notes in the same pattern.

However, if you played the Relative Major (G) here in Box 2, the Root G is on the first string.

Yes, you are still in the same pattern that looks like a house, but it is not THE Major House pattern.

It's just "upper" Major Box 2 with the root on the 1st string.



THE Major House has a 1-2-4-5-6. Close to Pentatonic Box 4, but no cigar.

It has 4 notes in common with Pentatonic Box 4 played to the right of the root, but the 4 is not part of the pentatonic scale and there is no 3.



So there are only 2 houses. They share a root note on the second string.

The minor house has all the same notes as "upper" box 2.

"Upper" Box 2 Major is the same pattern and still looks like a house, but is not the house we're interested in.

The Major house has the exact same root as the minor on the second string and has 4 notes in common with Box 4, but has a 4 rather than a 3 and is therefore not a Major Pentatonic scale.

Playing Major and/or minor pentatonic from The Major House can be achieved by bending the 2 as discussed above.
 
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Paleo

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
These diagrams are a bit confusing because the Major actually occurs to the right of the minor and R is the same note.

Houses.jpg
 
Paleo

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
Shortest answer:

Playing a minor house (root on 2nd string) from the relative major root (on 1st string) is not considered a Major house.

The Major and minor house patterns don't relate the same way as Major and Relative minor Pentatonic Boxes.
 
Paleo

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
Another "short" answer to your original question, "Where did that house come from?".

It came from moving the minor house up two frets and playing from the same root note on the 2nd string.

That's the "beauty" of it. You can move the same pattern by 2 frets and move back and forth from minor and Major (by adding bends).
 
Paleo

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
My final answer, now that I understand where you were coming from in the beginning.

Yes, if you play the minor house from E on the second string that is Box 2 and is also G major from the 1st string. But that is not considered the Major house.

If you move box 2 up 2 frets, you will have A Major (root on 1st) and F#m (root on 2nd) and it will look just like and have the same notes as the E Major house.

However, you're not using A or F# as the root. You're using the same E as you did in E minor.

It's like a 3rd "mode" in Box 2. You can start on the A and play A Major or the F# and play F# minor, but starting on the E gives us another "mode" which is not a useful "scale".

When we discuss the pentatonic boxes we learn that they all have both a Major and a minor root.
But there are 3 other notes you could start from but they don't give us a useful scale.

Take any A Major/F# minor box and play it from E. You'd have the same notes as the E Major House.

For example, A Major/F# minor Box 5 actually starts from E on the low E string.

We've been playing this "non-scale" from its "root" ever since we learned minor Box 5!!!!

https://dl.dropbox.com/s/xzjgt8la4ic7nyp/E houses 2.mp4?dl=0
 
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Griff

Griff

Vice Assistant General Manager
Staff member
@Paleo pretty much summed it all up, so I won't add anything at this point other than to say I didn't login for a day and look at all the fun I missed!

The most confusing thing about the "major" house pattern/BB Box is that it isn't major or minor until you execute the bend, but when you turn it around to the "minor" house pattern, it's minor and is the same as Box 2.

If you take a look and it still doesn't make sense, ask away and I'll jump back in.
 
MarkDyson

MarkDyson

Blues Hound Wannabe
Griff said:
The most confusing thing about the "major" house pattern/BB Box is that it isn't major or minor until you execute the bend, but when you turn it around to the "minor" house pattern, it's minor and is the same as Box 2.
Click to expand...

That's the TL;DR takeaway I got from the video I linked above. The rest of that (the cool thesis from brother @Paleo ) looks fascinating and I'll be going over it slowly as time permits. I'm not anti-theory, just slow. :Beer:
 
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