The flu shot / pnumonia shot the cure or the cause?

Al Holloway

Devizes UK
I know that the original thread title was more to evoke discussion than a serious question, but the pedant in me feels compelled to note: while anecdotally I cannot produce enough evidence to show that my getting a shot every year has prevented me from ever contracting the disease, I have to throw down the gauntlet and ask to see one—even one—solid bit of evidence getting the shot has ever been the "cause" of someone getting the flu. Not sniffles, not some arm soreness, not some reaction to the shot...real, actual, clinical influenza directly caused by the injection.
I don't think this is the issue. I believe that if you have a proven vaccination you will most likely not get the disease you are vaccinated against. However there is a growing concearn that the virus's are mutating in responce to the vaccinations and may develop a strain we cannot vaccinate against. While I am not in a high risk group I won't take a regular shot in the hopes that I can maintain my own immune system.

cheers

Al.
 

Silicon Valley Tom

It makes me happpy to play The Blues!
I do not know what the United States Military policy on vaccinations is today, but during my enlistment, we had to carry a shot record in our wallets, and have all required shots up to date. You might be anywhere, and suddenly receive orders to pack and immediately report to the other side of the world. :eek:

I can recall when I was three years old, May 1945. The war in Europe was over, and civilians had to receive vaccinations (small pox, and many others), over a short period of time. The reason was that service men would be returning from overseas, and bringing back illnesses that the United States public was not immune to. My mom would take my brother and I to the doctors office on Mission Street in San Francisco, during the late afternoon on Friday's, and we would receive our shots. :cry: Then mom would bring us to see a movie at the El Capitan Theater. There is nothing like a good western and a Bug's Bunny Cartoon, to get your mind off of having holes punched in your arm! :)

Tom
 

blackcoffeeblues

Student Of The Blues
I can KIND OF understand the 1918 Spanish Flu virus. (But I never knew that many died 50,000,000). The 1st world war was ending, and many nations participated, A lot of soldiers from around the world could have brought it home to there home country. Chemical warfare was a known in WW-1 Medical care, antibiotics, was not nearly (any place close) to what we have today. So now I am going to change the pace...
It was announced back in the early 80s that 1 out of every 7 soldiers that served in Viet-Nam has Hepatitis C.....it later came out 1 out of every 5
has it...(I guess the other 2 died)..my health care Doctor at the V.A. told me 1 out of 3 of her patients have it. What's up with that? I'll leave it at this----"WAR=population control". Bottom line. BCB:(:(:(
 

Elio

Student Of The Blues
I can KIND OF understand the 1918 Spanish Flu virus. (But I never knew that many died 50,000,000). The 1st world war was ending, and many nations participated, A lot of soldiers from around the world could have brought it home to there home country. Chemical warfare was a known in WW-1 Medical care, antibiotics, was not nearly (any place close) to what we have today. So now I am going to change the pace...
It was announced back in the early 80s that 1 out of every 7 soldiers that served in Viet-Nam has Hepatitis C.....it later came out 1 out of every 5
has it...(I guess the other 2 died)..my health care Doctor at the V.A. told me 1 out of 3 of her patients have it. What's up with that? I'll leave it at this----"WAR=population control". Bottom line. BCB:(:(:(

I can't really comment on hep c other than to say it is often blood borne. The virus wasn't identified until the late 80's and there was no screening in place for blood donations until the 90's, so blood transfusions were probably a key source of transmission prior to that. The influenza pandemic was largely spread by migrating birds, which are natural carriers of the virus, as well as returning WWI vets. An interesting side-note, the DNA profile of the Spanish flu was based on lung tissue recovered in the 90's of flu victims who were buried in permafrost in northern Alaska, showing the extent to which the virus was spread.
 

blackcoffeeblues

Student Of The Blues
I can't really comment on hep c other than to say it is often blood borne. The virus wasn't identified until the late 80's and there was no screening in place for blood donations until the 90's, so blood transfusions were probably a key source of transmission prior to that. The influenza pandemic was largely spread by migrating birds, which are natural carriers of the virus, as well as returning WWI vets. An interesting side-note, the DNA profile of the Spanish flu was based on lung tissue recovered in the 90's of flu victims who were buried in permafrost in northern Alaska, showing the extent to which the virus was spread.
Your post is enlighting----I never new that about the Spanish Flu thing. The HEP C virus was discovered during the search for the AIDS VIRUS
that started in 80-81?? Being my last name starts with "Y" when we were in the induction line at 2:00am in the morning on 2/3/69 in Fort Dix, NJ. (freezing) my self and Mark Zurwell was called to the front of the lines and assigned to handle helping the inoculation team. I can remember it today as if it happened yesterday....We handed the doctors the incomings names and papers to the Doctors who then "AIR INJECTED" their shots..When the bottle was empty we would go get them a new one. After the shot was administered, the doctor would wipe the air nozzle with a sanitary wipe that had blood on it, (NOT EVERY TIME) but he would maybe 6-12 times per tank which held enough serum for maybe 25-50 shots.??? I never ever thought about it back then (after all HE'S A DOCTOR). But I think about it now.
 

Dr. Ron

Nuthin’ But The Blues!
I experienced those "air gun" injections though in 1970. We stood in a line, and wiped our own arms and the med tech
came by and dragged it over our arms. So much for aseptic technique.
 
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Silicon Valley Tom

It makes me happpy to play The Blues!
I was discharged from the Air Force in October 1967. They started using air injection around that time.

When I went through Basic Training, they had a line which you stood in. One guy hit your right arm with three syringes at the same time, and while you looked towards him, the guy on your left hit you with two more! The next day you got your diphtheria shot, which was a small needle, but you could not lift your arm for two days!

They say that 20-100 million died from the Spanish Flu. They started dying during the spring of 1918. Some say it was caused by pigs in southern China, and others say it was caused by the US Army shoveling horse manure in the state of Kansas. Not much is truly known about the Spanish Flu, except it killed a lot of people.

Tom

.
 

Jack

Blues Junior
I took one of my family members in to get a flu shot (I didn't) and I got a lousy cold afterwards lol. I think going to the clinic and being exposed to all those sick people is what did it. Or maybe it was going to McDonald's :)
 

tommytubetone

Great Lakes
I got both today, so we'll see what happens. This was the 2nd pneumonia injection, so I'm supposedly good for life. I got the flu shot even though it's not particularly effective this year, but there was no downside, so what the heck.
The RN said it's possible that there will be second shingles vaccine coming out in the future to cover more strains of the disease. @Dr. Ron might know something about that.
 

Elio

Student Of The Blues
I got both today, so we'll see what happens. This was the 2nd pneumonia injection, so I'm supposedly good for life. I got the flu shot even though it's not particularly effective this year, but there was no downside, so what the heck.
The RN said it's possible that there will be second shingles vaccine coming out in the future to cover more strains of the disease. @Dr. Ron might know something about that.

I actually came down with shingles a few years ago (I wasn't vaccinated as I was below the recommended age at the time). I had a relatively mild case and it was still unbelievably painful. It's definitely one to avoid with a vaccination if you possibly can!
 

Silicon Valley Tom

It makes me happpy to play The Blues!
Talk to ten doctors and you will get ten different answers to a medical question. Yes, there are two pneumonia shots (#13 and #23 the number indicating the strains of pneumonia covered) but the doctors could not tell us if that covers "all strains of pneumonia". As for shingles, the doctors told us that the vaccination is 50% effective. I have a friend that got shingles in his 40's, and did he suffer!

Now when it comes to getting answers to medical questions, the Internet is the place to go! You can obtain thousands of answers to the same question, no two necessarily alike or correct. Just choose what sounds best to you. :(

Tom
 

MarkDyson

Blues Hound Wannabe
As I learned in probability and statistics, you need a minimum of 30 data points from an untainted population in order to gain results that are even minimally statistically significant. The plural of anecdote is not data, and one of the major logical fallacies is the appeal to popularity. Billions of flies crawl around on dog shit, but I'm not even close to thinking it's a cool thing to do. :Beer:
 

sloslunas

NM Blues
Got plenty of shots while in the military. I don't recall the details, but I think it had to do with all of the seedy places, off base, that my friends forced me to go to??

Steve
 

MikeS

Student Of The Blues
Staff member
Flu shot every year (Haven't had the flue since then)
Pneumonia (2 shots six months-one year apart) I'm not likely to get it any way (for now) but why take the chance?
 

CaptainMoto

Blues Voyager
I remember getting quite a few shots while I was in the army. I don't think that any of those had to do with the flu. Just sayin'...

Steve
Oh boy,
That brings back memories of boot camp.

I recall being told "you've volunteered to receive an experimental injection" for what, I I have no idea.
I remember a drill hall full of recruits standing at attention "buck naked" and getting several injections one after the other.

One team would walk down the line injecting you with something, followed by several others shooting you up with who knows what!

Maybe I'm already immuneo_O
 

blackcoffeeblues

Student Of The Blues
I remember all them shots---some air injected--more stabbed ---you got them going over and you got them when you got back. I think they were called P.C. shots by the pentagon..
 

CaptainMoto

Blues Voyager
I remember all them shots---some air injected--more stabbed ---you got them going over and you got them when you got back. I think they were called P.C. shots by the pentagon..
Oh yeah, the air injectors.
I think they stopped using those because they spread disease.:eek:
"Last Name First, Middle Name, First Name Last". remember that?


HCVets4.jpg
 

Boysie

Just for fun
I've had both, when I turned 70 I became eligible for the free shingles shot. My wife and I were going to visit my neice to see her new baby and we both had shots for mumps so that we wouldn't infect the newborn. I have never had the flu since I started shots for it. Anyone is ant-vaccine is an idiot. I have never suffered from any disease that I have been vaccinated against. Just to finish I've never had an averse reaction, ever. When I joined the Air Force in 1966 I recieved lot of shots including smallpox and tb.
 

Boysie

Just for fun
Flu shot every year (Haven't had the flue since then)
Pneumonia (2 shots six months-one year apart) I'm not likely to get it any way (for now) but why take the chance?

The pneumonia shot only protect you from bacteriolgical infections not corona as it's a viral infection. I just want to wish everybody good luck and I hope we all survive corona especially us old farts.
 

blackcoffeeblues

Student Of The Blues
Last Name First, Middle Name, First Name Last". remember that?
How can I forget--In the Army they would go down the list assigning details---Starting with "A"---by the time they got to the "Y-Z"s it seemed like
they always held the worse for last. When we arrived in country- they had the "S--T Burning" detail---GUESS WHO?--
Got sent to my unit and had to go through "Jungle warfare class'--for a week" Guess who? Then there was the "Dead Rat" detail-they put poison out to kill them---then the rat/rats would crawl under the the hooch"s and die after a couple days they would start stinking--somebody had to go in there and drag them out---Guess who? Seemed like every NCO and Officers in the U.S.Army had a beef with 'Sargeant York"--and I would hear guys bitchin' about having to pull K.P. (peeling potato's and washing dish's) :)
 
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