Still scratching my head over the Standard Harmony Rule
- Thread starter MikeS
- Start date
Paleo
Student Of The Blues
Say what????
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Paleo
Student Of The Blues
Ok. If you add the 7 to the C (C7) and Gm (Gm7) for the "punches", that makes 5 chords total.
Gm C Gm7 C7 D7
This is the best video I found demonstrating this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPgctkALRA4
Gm C Gm7 C7 D7
This is the best video I found demonstrating this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPgctkALRA4
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I only count 3.
Gm C D.??????
But I don't want to argue.
There is a Dm during the bridge (at least that's what it sounds like to me.)
Paleo
Student Of The Blues
Got it.
That's where the guy in the YouTube video I referenced above uses the "punches". (@3:50)
It gives the 2nd string a nice little melody line: D E F E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPgctkALRA4
Instead of Gm C Dm C he uses Gm C7 Gm7 C7.
They're really close. They have 2 notes in common.
Dm: D F A.
Gm7: G Bb D F.
And using Dm also gives you that same little melody line of D E F E on the second string.
Maybe give it a try and see what you think.
Otherwise we have to deal with both a Dm and a D Major in the song.
Which we can do. It will affect our scale choices for soloing.
(Sidebar: Using Dm reminded me of the Kingsmen version of Louie Louie. If only the Gm were Major. That's where my ear took me.)
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Paleo
Student Of The Blues
The keyboard in the recording really make those "punches" stand out. So.......
In the immortal words of Sly Stone, "You might like to hear my organ".
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/lbgoxbfhho73se2/Evil Ways.mp4?dl=0
First I play the triads, Gm C Dm as:
G Bb D = Gm
G C E = C
A D F = Dm
Then the "fuller" chords, Gm C7 Gm7 as:
G Bb D = Gm
G Bb C E = C7
G Bb D F = Gm7
Notice the G & Bb occur on the "bottom" of all 3 chords.
(And the A of Dm is nowhere to be found.)
I think the difference is much more noticeable on the keyboard.
Have a listen and see what you think.
And thanks,@MikeS, for the original post that brought all this up in the first place.
It's been a lot of fun for me to work all this out.
In the immortal words of Sly Stone, "You might like to hear my organ".
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/lbgoxbfhho73se2/Evil Ways.mp4?dl=0
First I play the triads, Gm C Dm as:
G Bb D = Gm
G C E = C
A D F = Dm
Then the "fuller" chords, Gm C7 Gm7 as:
G Bb D = Gm
G Bb C E = C7
G Bb D F = Gm7
Notice the G & Bb occur on the "bottom" of all 3 chords.
(And the A of Dm is nowhere to be found.)
I think the difference is much more noticeable on the keyboard.
Have a listen and see what you think.
And thanks,@MikeS, for the original post that brought all this up in the first place.
It's been a lot of fun for me to work all this out.
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This is probably a great topic for an AAP discussion... but let me see if I can help a little.
If I was on a bandstand and someone called this tune and I said, "What key?" I'd probably hear back, "G," which clearly doesn't make sense and is wrong, but we'd all know exactly what was intended. I might hear, "G minor," which also isn't right, but if I didn't know the changes, as soon as I heard the 2nd chord (the C7) I'd know dorian was the mode.
So it's always important to remember that, what is said on a bandstand and what is accurate aren't always the same thing!
If your chords are Gmin and C band and forth (because the D only happens at the end) that's a classic ii-V move (minor chord, up a 4th to a major or dom7th chord.) Which would mean it's using a G dorian tonal center (key of F.)
However, when the D comes along, there's a modal interpolation going on where the Gmin is now thought of as a vi, and we have changed to the key of Gmin, but on top of that it's changed to the Harmonic Minor mode and the D is now a V in a minor key using the Harmonic Minor scale.
This is SUPER common in Latin tunes, and pretty much to be expected. They are often in a minor key, which makes it so that the V chord will be major or dom7 when it arrives.
Even if that doesn't all make sense, yet, from a soloing standpoint it's simple - G dorian over everything until the V chord and then use G harmonic minor (and, if it's not a D7, you might find that G minor pentatonic sounds just fine, it's more bluesy.)
If I was on a bandstand and someone called this tune and I said, "What key?" I'd probably hear back, "G," which clearly doesn't make sense and is wrong, but we'd all know exactly what was intended. I might hear, "G minor," which also isn't right, but if I didn't know the changes, as soon as I heard the 2nd chord (the C7) I'd know dorian was the mode.
So it's always important to remember that, what is said on a bandstand and what is accurate aren't always the same thing!
If your chords are Gmin and C band and forth (because the D only happens at the end) that's a classic ii-V move (minor chord, up a 4th to a major or dom7th chord.) Which would mean it's using a G dorian tonal center (key of F.)
However, when the D comes along, there's a modal interpolation going on where the Gmin is now thought of as a vi, and we have changed to the key of Gmin, but on top of that it's changed to the Harmonic Minor mode and the D is now a V in a minor key using the Harmonic Minor scale.
This is SUPER common in Latin tunes, and pretty much to be expected. They are often in a minor key, which makes it so that the V chord will be major or dom7 when it arrives.
Even if that doesn't all make sense, yet, from a soloing standpoint it's simple - G dorian over everything until the V chord and then use G harmonic minor (and, if it's not a D7, you might find that G minor pentatonic sounds just fine, it's more bluesy.)
I guess you've answered my original questions... "Just tell them Gm" but clearly you have generated lots more questions... and that's a good thing... I think....
LOL,
Thanks.
Paleo
Student Of The Blues
Some pertinent, mostly overlooked lessons from 2 of Griff's courses. (At least they don't get mentioned very often on the forum.)
"Modes Unleashed" Lessons 10 & 11 on Changing Modes.
"The Harmonic Minor Scale" Solo #1 Latin Rock Feel.
Together they cover pretty much what Griff just said above.
ADDENDUM: Oops! I fixed it.
"Modes Unleashed" Lessons 10 & 11 on Changing Modes.
"The Harmonic Minor Scale" Solo #1 Latin Rock Feel.
Together they cover pretty much what Griff just said above.
ADDENDUM: Oops! I fixed it.
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jmin
Student Of The Blues
“The Harmonic MINOR Scale”...it’s there (another one I haven’t gotten to!)
I'm a musician... you're surprised by this?
Actually I do know how to alphabetize, but I just missed that one and it's too hard to change it now. Ctrl-F is your friend in the browser
I've never played the tune with those changes... but they work still. If Gmin is ii, C is V, Dmin is vi, so it doesn't mess anything up.
However, it's VERY common in latin music for the bass player to play the 5th, not the root, like that. So you may be hearing a Gminor chord with a D bass note and thinking that's D minor.
Griff