rolling stones midnight rambler. key?

[brokinbo]

I've always fumbled through "midnight rambler around 5th fret bar chords. I now see a capo was used on the 7th, sounds perfect.
But the video lessons I've watched; and I consider a few of them accomplished guitarists; say it's in the key of B. But the chords are A,E and B major; why wouldn't it be key of E? I'm just trying to involve some theory in my learning. Online sheet music also say key of B. Thanks

 

[Paleo]

Key of E with B as the tonal center is B Mixolydian mode.

In E Major E A B are the I IV V.

In B Mixolydian B A E become the I bVII IV.

Many musicians won't get so technical and just name the tonal center, B, as the “key”.

It's similar to the "Sweet Home Alabama" progression, D C G which many would say is in D but actually G.

 

[PapaBear]

Key of E with B tonal center is B Mixolydian mode.

So, a B major scale should work over it?

 

[brokinbo]

WOW. Great answer Paleo. Simple and to the point; and amazingly I understood perfectly. ( second part left me in the dust ) At my level, I'm still working on timing and being a solid rhythm for someone else. But that put it in perspective and will make me think outside the box next time I'm perplexed. Thanks

 

[Paleo]

So, a B major scale should work over it?

E Major or B Mixolydian, which are the same notes.

But you'd probably prefer to "bluesify' it by playing B minor pentatonic or a bit of B Dorian.

I don't think you'd like the A# (Major 7) of the B Major scale.


Many people will teach you to figure out the "parent" major scale, in this case E Major, and then focus on the tonal center, in this case B.

I prefer to simply know how to play the "mode", in this case B Mixolydian.

Which is "B" focused rather than "E" focused.

This is kind of reminiscent of Griff's dislike (to put it mildly) of the "3 fret rule".

 

[blackcoffeeblues]

Never been on this part of the forum before so forgive my intrusion---but would that not be the same as playing playing out of E---but doing it backwards? B-A-E-.

 

[Paleo]

---but would that not be the same as playing playing out of E---but doing it backwards? B-A-E-.

That's exactly what it is.

Playing a V-IV-I (5-4-1) progression in E Major.

However, some like to consider whatever the first chord in the song is as the "Key".

And in this case it's not.

But we still need some way to denote when we're not focusing on the tonic chord within a Major key.

That's a "mode",

Simple as that.

 

[Paleo]

Here's the video version, as I am wont to do.

Needs further editing but good enough for gov'mt work.

https://dl.dropbox.com/s/qm64jv8d8zubldi/E.m4v?dl=0

 

[JohnHurley]

Whats a tonal center?

 

[blackcoffeeblues]

O.K. here I am again----Is there a chance that Keith Richards might be playing out of a open tuning?---I know he/they played A LOT out of a open 'G" tuning and others--- if he was capo-ed at the 7th fret that would be a "D"-- and the 9th fret would be a "E". and the "A" would be ???? you tell me I got NO idea--- but it has to be easy to get to I would THINK. EDIT: the 14th fret would be a "A"---If he were open tuned to a open
"A' you could probably get it to work but can't justify a capo on the 7th fret.

 

[PapaBear]

O.K. here I am again----Is there a chance that Keith Richards might be playing out of a open tuning?---I know he/they played A LOT out of a open 'G" tuning and others--- if he was capo-ed at the 7th fret that would be a "D"-- and the 9th fret would be a "E". and the "A" would be ???? you tell me I got NO idea--- but it has to be easy to get to I would THINK. EDIT: the 14th fret would be a "A"---If he were open tuned to a open
"A' you could probably get it to work but can't justify a capo on the 7th fret.

He definitely plays it capoed, and it's not an open tuning, I played it with bar chords for years until I discovered he used the Capo

 

[blackcoffeeblues]

Yep: I just watched all the live versions on you tube; no open tunings. I can figure out the "B" and "E" but can't put a finger on where the "A" comes in except for maybe at the intro..

 

[PapaBear]

The chords are E shape 'B" at 7th, D shape A at 9th and A shaped E at 7th assuming a barre

 

[Paleo]

but can't put a finger on where the "A" comes in except for maybe at the intro..

With capo at the 7th fret .....

"Shape-wise" you play the open position chords E D A.

Which are the chords of a “Blues in A” in open position, but played from the V chord, E D A.

Using what Griff calls the “Blues in E” rhythm for the E and A and the full chord for the D.

 

[blackcoffeeblues]

I don't know why I am even here-I know nothing about Guitar theory, Circle of 5ths or any of that stuff, I do know the 5 boxes but got no idea if it is Major or Minor; if it sounds good to me that's what I go with. I have a capo on the 7th fret the notes I see are ---6th string "B"---5th string E'---4th string "A"--3rd string D---2nd string "F#"--1st string "B"
I did figure out where the "A" comes in pretty much the same as "Jumping Jack Flash" progression (I THINK?) It is just a real quick "A". then to the "E" back to "B". If I were playing it I would go with PAPA BEARS approach.

 

[Paleo]

Do you just want to know the “chords”or the actual “riffs”?

 

[Paleo]

Whats a tonal center?

Check out Griff's "Guitar Theory Made Useful" Lesson 12.

"Back In Black" is the same E D A progression we're discussing here.

It's in the Key of A, not E.