Amps Only good line 6...

[CapnDenny1]

In the hifi world, you are trying to give the sound as accurate as possible. So a speaker is designed to be neutral, and the cab should not color the sound. The best cheap material is MDF.

In a guitar amp, there are different opinions. Some feel part of the magic of the early Fender amps was that they were made of pine. And also that the speaker baffle, the board the speaker is mounted to, is floating. By that it means it is screwed in not glued in.

As far as internal baffles, or pockets? Hey maybe so, maybe not. It might make it technically better, but people may prefer the sound from the technically inferior design.

 

[Rancid Rumpboogie]

#1 speaker consideration: can it handle the power of the amp fully cranked all night? If not, chuck it.
#2 speaker consideration: Is it a high-efficiency speaker with a 100db (or greater) sensitivity rating? If not, chuck it.
#3 All the rest.

 

[CapnDenny1]

Then there is the school of thought, mostly hifi or bass amps, that you want a lot more power than your speakers can handle.

that does two things.

First it gives you clean undistorted sound on transients. A speaker is rated with continuous power level. It can handle short transients of higher power. You don't want to overdrive the suspension, it may break something. But they know sound is made up of dynamics, so they design them for transients.

Secondly, you don't want the amp to clip. If you turn the amp up, it will clip and distort by flat-topping the waveform. This is worse on SS amps, and is a little more rounded on tubes. When the amp clips, it changes the frequency content of the sound. It adds higher frequencies, If your speaker can handle 100W, but you have that 100W in severe clipping, then a larger than expected amount of the power is at a higher frequency. The speaker and or crossover network can be damaged by that.

If you have a higher powered amp, then it won't clip, and it won't distort on transients, and you will get a clearer sound and not keep blowing your horn, or tweeter on a multi-speaker cabinet. Tweeters and stuff are more of a hifi or bass or PA thing. But for you guys that use a PA and get all your sound from pedals or amp sims, the speaker is probably going to be a full range, and have a 2 way or even 3 way crossover.

 

[sdbrit68]

Then there is the school of thought, mostly hifi or bass amps, that you want a lot more power than your speakers can handle.

that does two things.

First it gives you clean undistorted sound on transients. A speaker is rated with continuous power level. It can handle short transients of higher power. You don't want to overdrive the suspension, it may break something. But they know sound is made up of dynamics, so they design them for transients.

Secondly, you don't want the amp to clip. If you turn the amp up, it will clip and distort by flat-topping the waveform. This is worse on SS amps, and is a little more rounded on tubes. When the amp clips, it changes the frequency content of the sound. It adds higher frequencies, If your speaker can handle 100W, but you have that 100W in severe clipping, then a larger than expected amount of the power is at a higher frequency. The speaker and or crossover network can be damaged by that.

If you have a higher powered amp, then it won't clip, and it won't distort on transients, and you will get a clearer sound and not keep blowing your horn, or tweeter on a multi-speaker cabinet. Tweeters and stuff are more of a hifi or bass or PA thing. But for you guys that use a PA and get all your sound from pedals or amp sims, the speaker is probably going to be a full range, and have a 2 way or even 3 way crossover.

Thanks, full disclosure, I am following your amp repair / build threads for my own selfish needs and desires, and, the advice I garnish comes at a price I can afford, free. Currently, I am over the top happy with my amp head, and loving the direction my speakers are going, but, I have a need to get my hands dirty and play.

In the next two weeks I want to start my own cabinet build. My amp is 120 watt tube, I have a Swamp Thang and a Texas Heat speaker at 150 watts.....hence the questions. I am almost certain I am going with a pine cabinet (mostly because of the history of Fender using them)
I am considering the baffle board to be slightly angled up for when its on the floor. I get Marshall on their higher end cabs uses a 13 ply birch, and that is more my sound, but I really want to work with pine

3 things I am trying to work out in my head first
Slightly bigger, everything says I will get more bass response........so thats a thought
internal baffle material, or the people who build the high end ones say they put in wedges so the interior of the cabinet is not rectangle with is an issue , I believe they said for standing waves issues......................even if it turns out crappy, and I throw it away, the fun is in the building for me

 

[CapnDenny1]

I just follow the golden ratio. I forget what it is, but it is supposed to also reduce standing waves.

You can predct the bass response based on the Thiele small parameters.

Are you doing a sealed or vented cab?

 

[sdbrit68]

I just follow the golden ratio. I forget what it is, but it is supposed to also reduce standing waves.

You can predct the bass response based on the Thiele small parameters.

Are you doing a sealed or vented cab?

was planning on sealed cabinet, with my garage being the rehearsal area, and the way the bars are set up around here, my thought was its better to have more directional control over the sound than trying to control ambient sounds with a vented cab

oh, and I did get the air space parameters from the manufacturer

 

[CapnDenny1]

Explain more directional control?

 

[sdbrit68]

Explain more directional control?

From what I have read........and please remember, I am gathering information, so, in my head, I may have it screwed up.
With an open back, because of the way the air works, sound will also come out the back, and with walls and such, can create a full more filled in sound................it also, from reading, sounds like this can also be a double edged sword in that it can create a muddy mix of sound bouncing around more

Currently, I have all closed backs, and been happy......................of course, I could be completely misunderstanding everything I am reading

 

[CapnDenny1]

No, you are correct. An open back would certainly go out the back.

A ported cab, as long as the port is in front would tend not to be as bad as an open back. Provided the port is in the front.

A lot of these effects are much more pronounced in the bass frequencies. For guitar you are usually in the mid and treble range, with very little bass. I designed my speaker cab to handle bass, because I wanted to be able to loop a bass track and then add rhythm and play lead, sort of a live jam track.

Now it's my turn to speak from what I've read, because I am no expert either. But basically you need the various instruments to be in different frequency bands. If you have too much bass in your guitar sound, the drums and bass player are there, and you will just disappear in the mud. If you are too high, then the cymbals and vocals will cover you. I guess it depends on your singer. But I think the reason a lot of rock singers are at the high end, is because the guitar has the mids. Then if you have a lead and a rhythm guitar they need to separate as well.

This something the people who actually play live would know far better than I do. I am a basement cork sniffer. Guilty as charged. I love playing live in front of people, so scary, so exciting, so freaking cool! But it just hasn't worked out. Any way.

So you guys that know this stuff maybe chime in and help sdbrit68 out, with the real story?

 

[Rancid Rumpboogie]

From what I have read........and please remember, I am gathering information, so, in my head, I may have it screwed up.
With an open back, because of the way the air works, sound will also come out the back, and with walls and such, can create a full more filled in sound................it also, from reading, sounds like this can also be a double edged sword in that it can create a muddy mix of sound bouncing around more

Currently, I have all closed backs, and been happy......................of course, I could be completely misunderstanding everything I am reading

I think for most live playing in a band / club, closed back is the way to go.
I played in a country / rock band for 5 years on the bar circuit. I had a big ol' Ampeg 100W and 4X12. Never had a problem "cutting through".
Before that I spent 5 years in an acid rock band. Before PA systems were used for anything but vocals. We got tired of incessantly blowing 12" guitar speakers. We bought four 300W 15" Electrovoice speakers for each player and built 4X15 cabinets that were herniameisters. No more blown speakers. And they sounded great. No science whatsoever, we just crammed them into the smallest cabinets we could cram them in.
So don't ask why I'm nearly deaf in one ear today. I remember playing so loud I could feel my pants legs vibrating.

To be honest, I think all the obsessing over cabinet dimensions, porting, materials, etc. is a lot like the discussions about tone wood ... just a lot of obsessing over nothing. Buy decent pickups and your guitar will sound great. Buy decent speakers and your amp will sound great.
.

 

[sdbrit68]

No, you are correct. An open back would certainly go out the back.

A ported cab, as long as the port is in front would tend not to be as bad as an open back. Provided the port is in the front.

A lot of these effects are much more pronounced in the bass frequencies. For guitar you are usually in the mid and treble range, with very little bass. I designed my speaker cab to handle bass, because I wanted to be able to loop a bass track and then add rhythm and play lead, sort of a live jam track.

Now it's my turn to speak from what I've read, because I am no expert either. But basically you need the various instruments to be in different frequency bands. If you have too much bass in your guitar sound, the drums and bass player are there, and you will just disappear in the mud. If you are too high, then the cymbals and vocals will cover you. I guess it depends on your singer. But I think the reason a lot of rock singers are at the high end, is because the guitar has the mids. Then if you have a lead and a rhythm guitar they need to separate as well.

This something the people who actually play live would know far better than I do. I am a basement cork sniffer. Guilty as charged. I love playing live in front of people, so scary, so exciting, so freaking cool! But it just hasn't worked out. Any way.

So you guys that know this stuff maybe chime in and help sdbrit68 out, with the real story?

At the end of the day, I am not getting rich and famous, so the fun is in the building and learning, worst case, I have firewood for the winter.....................but it has to be covered in snakeskin....lol

 

[CapnDenny1]

She's all done. I put a Fender tag on the front. It's Fender on the inside, where it counts. I got HRD's coming out of my ears!

IMG_4543 by Dennis Kelley, on Flickr

IMG_4534 by Dennis Kelley, on Flickr

 

[sdbrit68]

looks sweet

 

[CapnDenny1]

Sold!

I really liked how this amp sounded with the Schecter I got in a trade for it's brother. It wasn't selling, so I'm thinking, OK, I can always use another one or six decent amps to have around?

Somebody came and got it this afternoon. He was pleased as all get out. I think he really liked the covering, He tried it out and really liked the sound.

I must say it sounded better when he played it than when I played it? Hmmm? I guess that Texas Heat speaker must have gotten broken in?

He said he plays bass in his band, but since nobody is playing he is playing more guitar. He really liked the Music Man HD-130 I had sitting there. I told him would be up for sale once I got it going. He said to let him know.

It's looking kind of empty around here. You can actually go across the room and even turn around. I think I'm down to 20 amps that need fixing. I guess I'd better buy some more busted amps to replenish my stock?