New Guy Looking for Guidance

[Michael_Harris]

Good morning all,

I just purchased the 2.0 course and a couple of others. Working through them now and looking forward to improving as a guitar player.

I’d appreciate some advice or guidance on my guitar journey. I just crossed the three year mark and I’m not as far along as I’d hoped. When I first started playing, I told others that I was waiting for that “ah-ha” moment where I look at the fretboard and the heavens open up. I’d understand exactly what I was trying to accomplish, would know exactly how to practice to get better, etc.

Instead, three years in and all I really have is a memorization of the notes on the fretboard and slow progress trying to efficiently play scales, awkward song playing, etc.

I know everyone learns at a different pace, but I can’t help but think I should be further along. I’ve done a combination of private lessons with a seasoned player and online lessons like Guitar Tricks.

How can I apply my knowledge of where notes are on the fretboard to something bigger and speed up my progress towards that “ah ha” moment?

Appreciate everyone taking the time to read this.

 

[Marv]

Here's an idea. Don't make it so hard.

Start by focusing on learning a single "canned" 12-bar blues solo. Any one will do. Simple is better. You don't even really have to master it, just have a version of it that YOU can play pretty repeatably that sounds good to you. Focus only on using this solo over every 12-bar backing track you can find. Different keys, different tempos. Don't deviate. Then tinker with playing that same solo, but using different box patterns. (Without learning the boxes in the entireties, your memorization of the fret board should allow you to play the solo around every root note, allowing you to reuse that solo in different octaves, get different tones, etc. all over the fret board.) You could probably play just this one solo the rest of your guitar "career" without anyone but you noticing. So really give this some time to work; weeks even.

Rinse and repeat.

The solos you memorize probably follow the underlying progression. Think about where you are playing relative to the root at each of the chord changes. Chances are, you are playing near the bottom of the scale at the I chord change, in the middle of the scale over the IV chord change and near the top of the scale over the V chord change. I think your "ah-ha" moment will come if you use these "rules" in any solo you attempt to create for yourself.

In time, your own improvisations will come about as you find yourself mixing and matching snippets of these few initial solos according to the "rules" of the underlying chord structure.

Just my $.02.

 

[Paleo]

How can I apply my knowledge of where notes are on the fretboard to something bigger and speed up my progress towards that “ah ha” moment?

What "ah ha" moment are you looking for? Learning to play will be a series of "ah ha" moments.

Without some kind of idea of what you're looking for, you won't know when you get there.

There won't be one single "ah ha" moment where everything you want to be able to do will become clear.

A more focused approach to more specific well defined skills will be beneficial.

What exactly do you want to be able to do with your knowledge of the fretboard?

 

[Michael_Harris]

Here's an idea. Don't make it so hard.

Start by focusing on learning a single "canned" 12-bar blues solo. Any one will do. Simple is better. You don't even really have to master it, just have a version of it that YOU can play pretty repeatably that sounds good to you. Focus only on using this solo over every 12-bar backing track you can find. Different keys, different tempos. Don't deviate. Then tinker with playing that same solo, but using different box patterns. (Without learning the boxes in the entireties, your memorization of the fret board should allow you to play the solo around every root note, allowing you to reuse that solo in different octaves, get different tones, etc. all over the fret board.) You could probably play just this one solo the rest of your guitar "career" without anyone but you noticing. So really give this some time to work; weeks even.

Rinse and repeat.

The solos you memorize probably follow the underlying progression. Think about where you are playing relative to the root at each of the chord changes. Chances are, you are playing near the bottom of the scale at the I chord change, in the middle of the scale over the IV chord change and near the top of the scale over the V chord change. I think your "ah-ha" moment will come if you use these "rules" in any solo you attempt to create for yourself.

In time, your own improvisations will come about as you find yourself mixing and matching snippets of these few initial solos according to the "rules" of the underlying chord structure.

Just my $.02.

Good advice, thank you!

 

[Michael_Harris]

What "ah ha" moment are you looking for? Learning to play will be a series of "ah ha" moments.

Without some kind of idea of what you're looking for, you won't know when you get there.

There won't be one single "ah ha" moment where everything you want to be able to do will become clear.

A more focused approach to more specific well defined skills will be beneficial.

What exactly do you want to be able to do with your knowledge of the fretboard?

I thought at some point I would go from looking at the fretboard as a series of dots and frets to seeing notes. I thought it would just open up and I would know instinctively what I wanted to play.

Just to give more context, I picked up guitar solely to play along to songs I know and love. I just want to be able to sit down on a Saturday morning with Clapton backing tracks and just play along for enjoyment. Admittedly, I came to this very late. I tried picking up guitar in my late twenties, but couldn’t grasp it. I started again at 47 and here I am three years later.

I thought at some point by now I’d be able to hear a song and immediately know what key it was in and where to position my fingers on the fretboard.

Maybe my inexperience has me expecting the wrong thing or way too much too fast. I just thought it was worthwhile to get the perspective of you guys who are better and have been playing longer.

 

[PapaRaptor]

Admittedly, I came to this very late. I tried picking up guitar in my late twenties, but couldn’t grasp it. I started again at 47 and here I am three years later.

Late? You're at least 10 years younger than the average age on this forum. As a certified geezer, I'm 17 years your senior and I'm by no means the old man in the group!

 

[JohnHurley]

Hey Michael:

The learning is different for everyone but one of the ah ha moments I had a while back is finding relatively easy songs that you like and being able to play them and make chord changes on time along with the original recording. Let it Be by the Beatles was one of those for me. I had waited long enough before trying that song that with the chord changes in front of me I was able to play along with it the first time.

Being able at time to "sit in the pocket" and play along to Peter Greens Fleetwood Mac songs ( My Heart Beats Like A Hammer / Merry Go Round / Long Grey Mare / Hellhound on my Trail / Shake your money maker ) using small chords or full bar chords ( so that's like through lesson 7 maybe on BGU 2 ). Sit in the pocket kind of means hearing the groove and feeling the groove and being on time within that groove ( at least to me ).

Sometimes it is relaxing and not stressing about exactly what you are playing letting the magic of the song that you are able to play along with grab ya?

Sometimes the Ah Ha moment is realizing something is frustrating you and you don't have that part yet so putting it off 6 months or a year and then coming back and wow it's not bad at all.

The scales and stuff and counting ( I am working hard this year on counting stuff ) is important. But even more important is finding fun stuff that you can jam along with and that you like to keep you going.

My recent Ah Ha moment today is finding I can play Van Morrisons Into the Mystic easily. Another Ah Ha moment from that is realizing you know capos are fine and ok when you want to use a capo. It's a tool not a "cheaters bar" ( that one of my friends called it early on ). One more Ah Ha moment was dang I can't find my capo from 3 years back so I have to order one from amazon ha ha.

Like the others yeah a couple of easy canned solos to practice is a good idea.

Finally the other Ah Ha moment I had several weeks back was on "phrasing". Instead of trying to tear up the whole fretboard going up and down and side ways ... take a few notes from a song ... use it ... then vary it just a bit but don't go hog wild ... go back to the first set of notes ... vary it again a bit ... in general I say stick with Griffs system for a while but this is the video that helped me so much on phrasing ( a work in progress for me ).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8xzT-Psx_E&t=286s

 

[Michael_Harris]

I had a feeling I’d get great advice from this forum. Those are all great. I agree I probably am trying to swallow a huge elephant in just jumping to Clapton songs and not cutting my teeth on something more my speed to start with. I think for a while I want to focus more on Griff’s program and really dig into what that has to offer.

BTW John, Into the Mystic is one of my wife’s favorite all time songs so she’d be impressed with that!

 

[Michael_Harris]

Late? You're at least 10 years younger than the average age on this forum. As a certified geezer, I'm 17 years your senior and I'm by no means the old man in the group!

Hey, that’s good to hear! Hopefully I’ll be much better at this when I catch up to you guys

 

[MikeS]

Great advice from the guys here. The only thing I'd add is that it sounds like you are trying to use a "Scatter Gun" approach (Various Online & Private instruction). I'd recommend more focus. Having a live instructor is great and having an online instructor is great too, but having too many instructors will dilute your focus.

Griff has always said, Pick ONE online instructor (Doesn't have to be Griff) and stick with it.
I added a live instructor for a while. He was an amazing guitarist and I learned some great stuff from him, but he wasn't as good a teacher as Griff is.

As to your AhHa moment, I think you are really expecting too much. Ah Ha moments are MUCH smaller. You aren't going to wake up some morning and have the clouds part and suddenly be amazing guitarist that you want to be. It will be more like you will have heard something over and over for some time and suddenly it will make more sense. For me, one AhHa was being able to play Box One and Box two in the same place and understanding that Box one was minor and box two was major. The AhHa's are different for everyone.

 

[Michael_Harris]

Great advice from the guys here. The only thing I'd add is that it sounds like you are trying to use a "Scatter Gun" approach (Various Online & Private instruction). I'd recommend more focus. Having a live instructor is great and having an online instructor is great too, but having too many instructors will dilute your focus.

Griff has always said, Pick ONE online instructor (Doesn't have to be Griff) and stick with it.
I added a live instructor for a while. He was an amazing guitarist and I learned some great stuff from him, but he wasn't as good a teacher as Griff is.

As to your AhHa moment, I think you are really expecting too much. Ah Ha moments are MUCH smaller. You aren't going to wake up some morning and have the clouds part and suddenly be amazing guitarist that you want to be. It will be more like you will have heard something over and over for some time and suddenly it will make more sense. For me, one AhHa was being able to play Box One and Box two in the same place and understanding that Box one was minor and box two was major. The AhHa's are different for everyone.

Agree this bouncing around hasn’t been productive. I gave up the private lessons as paying someone weekly to continue practicing the same material didn’t make financial sense. But yes, going to focus solely on BGU for the next couple of months and get some more information under my belt. Thanks for the advice!

 

[artyman]

You may also find it helpful to join in some tracks on The Virtual Jam Room, a good place to practice in a 'safe' environment.

 

[MikeS]

Agree this bouncing around hasn’t been productive. I gave up the private lessons as paying someone weekly to continue practicing the same material didn’t make financial sense. But yes, going to focus solely on BGU for the next couple of months and get some more information under my belt. Thanks for the advice!

You said you've been playing for 3 years but haven't really describes where you are right now.
If you are still having trouble playing "Cowboy Chords" in time and cleanly, you need to ask yourself if even BGU is a bit out of your reach for now (Griff has easier courses).

If you can play open chords and barre chords just fine, then BGU 2 is perfect for you. Don't try to rush through it. (BGU 1 took me two years to finish, with frequent side trips into other Griff courses).

Focus on BGU 2 for the first several lessons say 5-10. Then you may feel that you need a change of pace. Figure out where the holes are in your playing and fill them with courses. If it's rhythm, then try Strumming and Rhythm Mastery or 52 Rhythm Fills or you want soloing, but something different, try Soloing Without Scales.

 

[patb]

Michael,
I started guitar at age 61. 12 years later I am nowhere near where I expected to be . I've been saying that for years. admittedly I did not play consistently due to years of work travel and health problems.
I spoke with my first live instructor (from years back) recently about it. He has played for 50 plus years, much of it professionally and he lamented the same feeling. Incidentally, after numerous instructors all over the country I gave up on live instructors . I feel I would benefit from one but cannot find the right one.
I once told my wife I have learned a lot and one day it will all come together and be great. I'm still waiting.
Ah ha moments happen early and less often as you progress.
Hey, there's always kazoo.
Keep on playin.
Pat

 

[JohnHurley]

BTW John, Into the Mystic is one of my wife’s favorite all time songs so she’d be impressed with that!

So ha ha it's relatively slow and laid back I can show ya how ( let me send you a PM ).

I forgot one more Ah Ha ... BB King the original Thrill is Gone ( from like way back ) ... play it and count it a couple of times.

Then just do some easy B minor pentatonic in the middle of the scale some simple phrasing and minor variations ... just go slow and play along with BB King ... do it a lot ha ha ... that's going to hit you. I missed doing that my first couple of years ... my mistake. As time goes on sure do some more tricks in there to that song ... Griff has material on playing that song or "songs like it" ...

 

[Grateful_Ed]

Hi Michael, welcome to the Clan.
You've come to the right place and have asked good questions. It sounds as if you've gotten some good answers as well.
Keep working through BGU 2.0. There are solos in there that will help you plus rhythm to help put it together. Also, as suggested above, seek out additional solos in the other courses, (you didn't mention which other courses you have, unless I missed that in a later reply).
Don't spread yourself too thin, don't work incessantly on one course if you find yourself struggling.
-ed

 

[Michael_Harris]

You said you've been playing for 3 years but haven't really describes where you are right now.
If you are still having trouble playing "Cowboy Chords" in time and cleanly, you need to ask yourself if even BGU is a bit out of your reach for now (Griff has easier courses).

If you can play open chords and barre chords just fine, then BGU 2 is perfect for you. Don't try to rush through it. (BGU 1 took me two years to finish, with frequent side trips into other Griff courses).

Focus on BGU 2 for the first several lessons say 5-10. Then you may feel that you need a change of pace. Figure out where the holes are in your playing and fill them with courses. If it's rhythm, then try Strumming and Rhythm Mastery or 52 Rhythm Fills or you want soloing, but something different, try Soloing Without Scales.

That’s a good point and yes, I am good with changing cowboy chords, D7, A7 and E7 in time and while I’m not perfect on barre chords, I’ve spent a lot of time working on them and at a point where I can perform them “ok.”

 

[Michael_Harris]

Michael,
I started guitar at age 61. 12 years later I am nowhere near where I expected to be . I've been saying that for years. admittedly I did not play consistently due to years of work travel and health problems.
I spoke with my first live instructor (from years back) recently about it. He has played for 50 plus years, much of it professionally and he lamented the same feeling. Incidentally, after numerous instructors all over the country I gave up on live instructors . I feel I would benefit from one but cannot find the right one.
I once told my wife I have learned a lot and one day it will all come together and be great. I'm still waiting.
Ah ha moments happen early and less often as you progress.
Hey, there's always kazoo.
Keep on playin.
Pat

GREAT perspective, Pat and thanks for that. Very helpful to know that this may be more of a journey than a destination.

 

[snarf]

I told others that I was waiting for that “ah-ha” moment where I look at the fretboard and the heavens open up.

That's an ah-ha moment I think we're all working and waiting on. Well most of us anyways. That one's, often, a lifelong pursuit. Remember that (at least the places where I've been working) they tell us that we need to have SMART goals. I'm not sure that your goal, as stated, really fits the first 3 criteria, Specific, Measurable, and Attainable. It's a little too general, and, outside of playing like Griff, it's not really measurable nor attainable (most of us don't have the 30+ years of focused playing that Griff has).

In a goal writing scenario, this would be like your 10 year goal. Building up to it, you would have some 5 year goals that feed into it. And inside those 5 year goals, you would have numerous smaller goals building into the 5 year goals. The thing they don't mention in those goal sessions is that the goal also needs to be within our control. That angelic choir appearing and singing over our shoulder as we blaze through a solo is something we can't really control. Those choirs appear when they want to, and, at least in my experience, there is nothing we can do to force them to show up on our shoulder singing.

Start off setting some smaller goals. These lead to smaller ah-ha moments, but, sooner or later, you'll realize that you're noticeably closer to that original super-big goal. Something like these.

1. Learn a specific solo, and be sure that you're analyzing it when you do. Where is the root played in the solo? How do the other notes you're playing relate to the root? Anytime you're playing that solo, could you find and play the root in more than a couple of places if you wanted to? Do you know what box you're in...or at least what pattern you should be playing?
2. Learn the notes on the fretboard. Don't just play the notes on the first string (E, F, F#, G, etc). Look at the first string and figure out how many other places on the fretboard you can play that same E. Now play them. Now how about an E an octave lower? Play those. Rinse, repeat with the other notes of the scale.
3. Go to Griff's Blues Scale Trainer and spend 10 or 15 minutes a day working it. Do that for 4 weeks. Or 6 weeks. Or however long you want to do so.
4. Find some other musical concept or challenge that you want to spend time working, and work it.
5. Most of all, while you're working don't forget to have fun. That's the point of playing music...enjoying it. Play some songs that you like. I'll occasionally close the door to my little music room, put on a set of headphones, plug in my guitar, put on my favorite playlist, crank it up, strike my best guitar god pose, and play with absolutely no abandon. If my headphones ever came unplugged on one of those nights, I'm sure the neighbors would think I had lost my ever-lovin' mind. Some of what I play then might sound ok. Most of what I play would make the original artists sue me for damages. But I'm having fun and living the rock god dream in my own mind.
6. After a few minutes or an hour or a night of kicking back and just having fun, get back in the woodshed. Keep moving forward in your playing. Keep practicing. Not sitting around noodling all the time, but honest to goodness focused practice that's working towards one of your smaller goals.

 

[Michael_Harris]

Hi Michael, welcome to the Clan.
You've come to the right place and have asked good questions. It sounds as if you've gotten some good answers as well.
Keep working through BGU 2.0. There are solos in there that will help you plus rhythm to help put it together. Also, as suggested above, seek out additional solos in the other courses, (you didn't mention which other courses you have, unless I missed that in a later reply).
Don't spread yourself too thin, don't work incessantly on one course if you find yourself struggling.
-ed

Very much appreciate the welcome, ED! Thank you and yes, I will be more focused going forward and not try to tackle multiple tasks all at once.