My Review of CRGU: Wasn't for Me

Griff

Vice Assistant General Manager
Staff member
This has been an interesting read, and thanks @Steely Glen for putting so much thought into your review of it, I know a lot of people will get a lot out of that.

I'll answer to a couple of points (or rather, explain/expand on them) just so you know where I'm coming from in case it helps you make the decision for yourself (with tomorrow being the end of the sale and all...)

1 - The first 5 lessons on counting and rhythm are the lessons I always wanted to do, and as mentioned would absolutely include with every course that goes out the door if I had known how to do that from a technical standpoint before now.

Beyond any shadow of a doubt, the #1 (by a LARGE margin) thing that I hear from frustrated students is timing related. When they can't play something, it's because they don't know when, not that they don't know how. It happens every time and it fixes it every time.

So yes, those first few lessons are very counting heavy, and that continues throughout, though it gets less and less as the course progresses, unless the rhythm is tricky and then I count it pretty deliberately.

2 - The riffs are short and close to "real" riffs and songs. Yes, there are copyright issues. With YouTube, Google has worked things out with copyright owners and the videos are basically like songs on the radio now. That's why they ALL have ads on them, that ad revenue goes to the copyright holders now (well, a portion of it.)

However, the copyright involved with teaching a song note-for-note, and the copyright involved (or rather, the license involved) for actually printing the TAB is totally different.

It's not that I can't afford the license, it's that I can't afford the lawyers to navigate it all and tell me what to do and make the arrangements. It's ridiculous how complex that is. Notice that you see things like "Guitar Tab White Pages" published by Hal Leonard? Guess who owns the rights to print almost all the sheet music on the planet? Guess who I have to pay to get permission to print sheet music? Guess who isn't all that inclined to make that cheap and help me compete with them?

So it's a pain, and it's expensive.

But probably the real reason, even more than that, is that I want you to develop your ear and your ability to learn songs on your own. The skills required and the chord shapes and rhythmic constructs required to play "Smoke On The Water" are the exact same as the ones you need to play example 6-1. If you learn them, and then you looked up the TAB for "Smoke On The Water," it should make perfect sense and you should be able to learn it easily.

If you learn solo 3, which is very much in the style of "Comfortably Numb," and then you wanted to learn the "real" solo for "Comfortably Numb," you would have all the skills you needed to learn that.

And if you tried to learn it by ear, you would have already heard yourself play all of the patterns and ideas in the actual solo, so you could probably figure it out for yourself if you had assimilated the solo in CRGU.

3 - The overlap question, and that really depends on how much you really have learned from the other courses. The pentatonic and blues scales are covered in several of my courses, but that's because they come up a lot. I suppose at some point I could just teach those scales by themselves in one course and reference them in others, but I like to try and teach them in the musical context they are going to be used in.

But you won't find any of the riffs in the rhythm section or any of the solo in the lead section in any other course. So while at first I thought there would be a lot of overlap, when I really looked at it after it was all finished, I was surprised at how little overlap there actually was, despite chords and scales not changing from style to style.

So hopefully with my explanation and the reviews above, anyone reading this will get a good indication of whether or not it's good for them. And also hopefully you can see that the refund is easy if you don't like it so you don't have anything to worry about in that way either.
 

Steely Glen

I been down so long, down don't bother me.
This has been an interesting read, and thanks @Steely Glen for putting so much thought into your review of it, I know a lot of people will get a lot out of that.

I'll answer to a couple of points (or rather, explain/expand on them) just so you know where I'm coming from in case it helps you make the decision for yourself (with tomorrow being the end of the sale and all...)

1 - The first 5 lessons on counting and rhythm are the lessons I always wanted to do, and as mentioned would absolutely include with every course that goes out the door if I had known how to do that from a technical standpoint before now.

Beyond any shadow of a doubt, the #1 (by a LARGE margin) thing that I hear from frustrated students is timing related. When they can't play something, it's because they don't know when, not that they don't know how. It happens every time and it fixes it every time.

So yes, those first few lessons are very counting heavy, and that continues throughout, though it gets less and less as the course progresses, unless the rhythm is tricky and then I count it pretty deliberately.

2 - The riffs are short and close to "real" riffs and songs. Yes, there are copyright issues. With YouTube, Google has worked things out with copyright owners and the videos are basically like songs on the radio now. That's why they ALL have ads on them, that ad revenue goes to the copyright holders now (well, a portion of it.)

However, the copyright involved with teaching a song note-for-note, and the copyright involved (or rather, the license involved) for actually printing the TAB is totally different.

It's not that I can't afford the license, it's that I can't afford the lawyers to navigate it all and tell me what to do and make the arrangements. It's ridiculous how complex that is. Notice that you see things like "Guitar Tab White Pages" published by Hal Leonard? Guess who owns the rights to print almost all the sheet music on the planet? Guess who I have to pay to get permission to print sheet music? Guess who isn't all that inclined to make that cheap and help me compete with them?

So it's a pain, and it's expensive.

But probably the real reason, even more than that, is that I want you to develop your ear and your ability to learn songs on your own. The skills required and the chord shapes and rhythmic constructs required to play "Smoke On The Water" are the exact same as the ones you need to play example 6-1. If you learn them, and then you looked up the TAB for "Smoke On The Water," it should make perfect sense and you should be able to learn it easily.

If you learn solo 3, which is very much in the style of "Comfortably Numb," and then you wanted to learn the "real" solo for "Comfortably Numb," you would have all the skills you needed to learn that.

And if you tried to learn it by ear, you would have already heard yourself play all of the patterns and ideas in the actual solo, so you could probably figure it out for yourself if you had assimilated the solo in CRGU.

3 - The overlap question, and that really depends on how much you really have learned from the other courses. The pentatonic and blues scales are covered in several of my courses, but that's because they come up a lot. I suppose at some point I could just teach those scales by themselves in one course and reference them in others, but I like to try and teach them in the musical context they are going to be used in.

But you won't find any of the riffs in the rhythm section or any of the solo in the lead section in any other course. So while at first I thought there would be a lot of overlap, when I really looked at it after it was all finished, I was surprised at how little overlap there actually was, despite chords and scales not changing from style to style.

So hopefully with my explanation and the reviews above, anyone reading this will get a good indication of whether or not it's good for them. And also hopefully you can see that the refund is easy if you don't like it so you don't have anything to worry about in that way either.

@Griff - Thanks for taking the time to address my review. You're a class act and we're all glad that you do what you do.
 

PapaBear

Guit Fiddlier
I've looked it over, it's exactly what I thought it would be, but I wasn't looking for a "how to Play Song X" course, I was looking for something to give me the skills to play whatever I wanted, I think this is a good start for an old hack trying to "fill in" what I should already know
 

mountain man

Still got the Blues!
One of my many goals is to play to galaxy radio to any song that comes on. Not just some lead stuff after I figure out a key that works but to figure out the rhythm too. The more I practice all kinds of skills presented in as many different ways possible and even being somewhat redundant with some skills the luckier I get figuring stuff out.
 
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sdbrit68

Student Of The Blues
I've looked it over, it's exactly what I thought it would be, but I wasn't looking for a "how to Play Song X" course, I was looking for something to give me the skills to play whatever I wanted, I think this is a good start for an old hack trying to "fill in" what I should already know

I am kinda with you, I like how @Griff explains it. I am currently learning some songs this year, mainly, because it is easier to have a song set list to practice, than trying to review a bunch of lessons, plus it forces me to do different things on counting, timing, rhythm

My main goal is I want to do what @CaptainMoto and others do, I want to get the sounds out of my head and record my own stuff, by learning the "in the style of"

I think it will help me get the skills without being a carbon copy of someone elses song
 

JN99

Hang Fire
Not that anyone asked but here's my two cents.... :)

First and foremost, I support Griff, and usually that means I buy his offerings, because of the doors he's opened for me and the friendships that have developed, and experiences I've had as a result of BGU Live. I know not everyone has been to BGU Live and some who have been may feel differently but for me it's pretty hard to say thanks enough to Griff for that so the least I can do is support him through continuing to be a customer.

Second, I like Griff's courses and his teaching style and so much of what he offers appeals to me anyway. However, Griff's courses like all others to me are like reference guides. Sure you can go through them from end-to-end and they may have even been structured to be done that way but they don't have to be done that way. In the end you use them how you want to get what you want from them. Pick and choose from what's there in other words, mine the course(es) for the material that you find helpful and valuable.
 

JeffR

Blues Newbie
I just bought the course and am reviewing some of the lessons on-line, until I get my dvd set, and I think it will help learn the songs. I could see the Comfortably Numb lesson really helping me play the actual song. Even if you learned the song note-for-note I would say you wouldn't play the solo the same way every time. I've heard all of the full length solo's and they sound very close to the original song, so it doesn't seem like it would be too difficult to learn to play the solo's if you work on it. I buy music from a Classical Guitarist in Denmark, Per Olav Kindgren, and he has songs he would love to sell but he has to pay copyright but has mentioned on a few occasions about the cost of lawyers. So that really fits what Griff said about the lawyer fees.

If you think about it, the entire course is $147, if you get the dvd's and printed manual, so you will learn at least that amount if you took lessons. It would be like paying for 5 guitar lessons from a teacher. There is no way a teacher could teach you anywhere near as much as this course will teach you in that short time frame. I would suggest that those that don't know how to read music should take about a years worth of lessons that only teach how to read music. I wish I would have taken the time to learn to read music when I first started playing guitar. I have a few of Griff's courses, the BGU and BGIAG and find them very helpful, and I expect this course to be just as helpful.
 

BoogieMan

Blues Junior
But probably the real reason, even more than that, is that I want you to develop your ear and your ability to learn songs on your own.
This is the reason I love your courses. I consider the first five rhythm lessons a bonus. I'll reserve judgement until I see more of the course.
 
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MikeR

Guitar Challenged
Staff member
Griff teaches the "basics" of rhythm and lead. That's it. Period.

If you want more, you'll have to do some work on your own.

Or maybe he'll come out with some "more advanced" courses in the future.

He doesn't play any complete, "actual" songs in any of his courses.

For those looking for complete songs and some more advanced licks, Blues Gig In a Box 1 and 2 offer complete songs created by Griff, but in familiar blues styles that can be translated to other songs. For example, in BGIAB1, "I Can't Sleep" is basically Black Cat Bone with different lyrics. The ending solo in that song, at least to me, is fairly advanced as well. But then again, most stuff is "advanced" for me. ;)
 
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Steely Glen

I been down so long, down don't bother me.
If you think about it, the entire course is $147, if you get the dvd's and printed manual, so you will learn at least that amount if you took lessons. It would be like paying for 5 guitar lessons from a teacher. There is no way a teacher could teach you anywhere near as much as this course will teach you in that short time frame.

In theory, I agree 100%, but having done both live lessons and recorded material like BGU, live teachers in real-time scenarios can develop your playing in ways that recorded lessons and jam tracks cannot. For example, it's virtually impossible to simulate the nerves involved in practicing a piece intensely for a week in order to play it for your teacher at the next lesson. That's teaching you how to perform under intense pressure and scrutiny, something that recorded lessons and jam tracks cannot duplicate. Working with a live teacher certainly isn't the "bang for buck" but it certainly provides a learning environment that boxed curricula cannot. For me, I choose a mix of both.
 

AlanT

Blues Newbie
Really interesting to read all of this. I've purchased this course and I will be looking to complete it. My observation is that I agree with many of the points raised particularly in relation to Griff's teaching methods.

I am not a member of a band or attend any music nights with a view to perform but I really want to play the guitar. I do not consider myself an advanced player by any stretch of the imagination but, thanks in no small part to Griff, I can play some blues rhythms and a few solos. I also play some classic rock and can play along with a few songs and backing tracks.

Apologies for the length of this post,just trying to give some context.

As a further development of this course I would like to see some complete songs, as has been mentioned earlier in the thread, not necessarily the classic rock songs mentioned but a complete song or songs so that I can put together all that I have learned.I have previously purchased Griff's Texas Hideout and for me this was a great and meaningful method of bringing together my learning.
 

Mr.Scary

A Blues Legend in My Own Mind
In theory, I agree 100%, but having done both live lessons and recorded material like BGU, live teachers in real-time scenarios can develop your playing in ways that recorded lessons and jam tracks cannot. For example, it's virtually impossible to simulate the nerves involved in practicing a piece intensely for a week in order to play it for your teacher at the next lesson. That's teaching you how to perform under intense pressure and scrutiny, something that recorded lessons and jam tracks cannot duplicate. Working with a live teacher certainly isn't the "bang for buck" but it certainly provides a learning environment that boxed curricula cannot. For me, I choose a mix of both.

Put a camera in front of you and push record. It took me forever to get a decent take for the Feb.Challenge for BGU Labs when I could play it just fine without recording.Thats some pressure.
 

snarf

making guitars wish they were still trees
Put a camera in front of you and push record. It took me forever to get a decent take for the Feb.Challenge for BGU Labs when I could play it just fine without recording.Thats some pressure.
Ain't that the truth! I've spent a day and a half trying to get a mistake-free recording for the March Challenge. I've even changed a couple of my riffs to make it easier and still can't manage to get one that I'd be happy to send to Griff. Turn the recorder off, and I play it flawlessly. Hit record, and I'm all thumbs again.

That said, I can't disagree with SteelyG. I can record my submission until I am happy with it before I send it to Griff, but, if I had to walk in and sit down and play it, he'd probably get the version that I'd rather him not hear, so I've got to get it right the first time and not on the 15th take.
 

sdbrit68

Student Of The Blues
Ain't that the truth! I've spent a day and a half trying to get a mistake-free recording for the March Challenge. I've even changed a couple of my riffs to make it easier and still can't manage to get one that I'd be happy to send to Griff. Turn the recorder off, and I play it flawlessly. Hit record, and I'm all thumbs again.

That said, I can't disagree with SteelyG. I can record my submission until I am happy with it before I send it to Griff, but, if I had to walk in and sit down and play it, he'd probably get the version that I'd rather him not hear, so I've got to get it right the first time and not on the 15th take.


as was told tome, turn it on, leave it on, then when you feel a good take, shut it off.................but I have a camera with like a 32gb card
 

70sRock

Blues-Rock Infused
But probably the real reason, even more than that, is that I want you to develop your ear and your ability to learn songs on your own.

@Griff, thanks for answering these questions. I think you achieved your goal. For me it's a great course that gets down to the fundamentals and basics of this style so that I can grow on my own.
 
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LLL

Workin' the Blues
Just reading between the lines, but Griff has already tabbed CRGU a "flagship" course. To me that means that there will be more courses in the "Classic Rock" family down the road, just like there have been many "Blues" family courses over the years. I would bet that Modes will be a topic down the road, as will other Scales probably. If the situation with specific song copyrights ever presented itself to Griff, he would probably do course material on those too.

Bottom line is that I think this Flagship has just set sail and there is more to come. Just my $.02.
 

Scotty R

Blues Newbie
What a great thread! Good discussion about content, learning styles, and teaching philosophy...

I'm sympathetic to the points that Steely Glen is making in his critique of the course.

With a few of Griff's courses i've felt the tension between "what I want" and "what I need". Griff has in the past made mention of the fact that he'd rather teach us to fish than give us a fish. And his note earlier in this thread, which clarified his purpose and constraints makes that point once again.

I get that for some BGU is slightly more satisfying as there are elements for nearly complete songs. In fact Griff later gave us the recipes for songs such as Tore Down, Pride and Joy, Stormy Monday, Thrill is Gone, etc. Here's a note that I saved which spells it out:
  1. The Thrill Is Gone in Bm – BB King ( use lesson 11 in Blues Guitar Unleashed and solo 2.) Solo from Deep Ellum Blues from BGIAB-2
  2. Stormy Monday in G – The Allman Brothers (Lesson 7, Solo 4.)
  3. Crossroads in A – Cream/Clapton (Lesson 8, blues in A for the rhythm, Solo 1 for the lead.)
  4. Pride & Joy – SRV (Lesson 10 for the rhythm, solo 6 if you want to really melt some faces
  5. I’m Tore Down – Clapton or Freddie King (Lesson 6 for the rhythm, Solos 3 or 5 work great.) Sole from Down To The Depot from BGIAB-1
Bottom line, I'm glad I bought the course and know that I will be better able to learn some of my favourite classic rock songs on my own once I complete the course.

In the mean time, if we can start a new classic rock recipe book based on this new platform of rhythms, licks and fills I'll be thrilled.
My 2 cents....
 

Thatman

Playin' for the fun of it.
One of the things I've noticed with working through the CRGU course is that when I practice the solo licks, slowly, I am now not looking at my guitar but reading the Tab, and I'm amazed that my fingers are going to the right frets. I'm loving this. I am finding that after half a dozen or so playings I can then look at my guitar neck and not the tab and this has the effect of helping me memorise the lick.

I feel that this is a feature of my experience growing more than a feature of this particular course, but it has coincided with working with this course and I'm loving it.

I know folk want to learn songs but I very much like these lessons because I can hear the style of the tunes in the exercises, and I know that If I use the lesson to learn how to familiarise myself with playing the guitar, and understanding the structure of licks, then if I choose I can seek out a more specific detailed tab and know that I can use my new found skills. :)

Totally agree, show me how to use the tools and I will work on my pleasures. (y)
 

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
Just a suggestion. Go back to the web site and actually read it if you didn't already. Griff spells out exactly what is in
every lesson in the course.
 

david moon

Attempting the Blues
Ain't that the truth! I've spent a day and a half trying to get a mistake-free recording for the March Challenge. I've even changed a couple of my riffs to make it easier and still can't manage to get one that I'd be happy to send to Griff. Turn the recorder off, and I play it flawlessly. Hit record, and I'm all thumbs again.

That said, I can't disagree with SteelyG. I can record my submission until I am happy with it before I send it to Griff, but, if I had to walk in and sit down and play it, he'd probably get the version that I'd rather him not hear, so I've got to get it right the first time and not on the 15th take.
I've gotten more comfortable with recording, mainly because if it sucks you can just throw it away. :sneaky:

For the March challenge, I made a mental "outline" of where I wanted to be for the riffs, and noodled around in those positions. So to some extent it was improvised, not composed. When I hit record, the first take was a total flub. The second take had some rough spots but that's what I posted to peer review and submitted to Griff. It was "as good as it gets" right now, not perfection.

Back to the topic at hand, I bought the course with book and DVDs and except for viewing the emails that preceded it haven't done anything with it yet.
 
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