More than you ever wanted to know about the "2 Finger" 7 chord (tritone)

Paleo

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
Last month there was a thread titled " EASIEST Blues Hack EVER" that, in part, covered the 2-note "Little Chords" Griff discusses in BGU Lesson 4.

And moving them 6 frets up the neck.

What's up with that? o_O

I've been thinking about it ever since and, as usual, the only way I'll be able to stop is to post something.


Looking at an octave from G to G along the 6th string, we have a C note 5 frets up from the lower G and 7 frets down from the upper.

And a D note 7 frets up from the lower G and 5 frets down from the upper. Just the opposite.

Smack dab in between, 6 frets up and 6 frets down is C#, the sharp 4. (Or Db the b5)

6 frets = 6 half steps = 3 whole steps = 3 tones = tritone

In an octave from C# to C#, G is 3 tones up and 3 tones down.

The keys of G and C# share the same tritone.


Let's see if I know what I'm talking about. :cautious:

On to video: (Sub Blues scale whenever I say minor Pentatonic scale)



1) G C# G C# etc



2) What's that got to do with a Blues in A?



3) Summary: C-shapes & E-shapes



4) Diatonic resolution of V7 to I



Further editing may be needed. :unsure:
 
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Elwood

Elwood

Blues
Hats off to you Paleo! A comfortably paced and thorough run through what you ran through. Very impressive that you verbalize all that, it speaks to your understanding. I'm still solidly planted in the "dang, I guess that sounds ok" camp. Your hard work shows!
 
JohnHurley

JohnHurley

Rock and Roll
So does tri tone mean three full steps ( three full tones ) above a base tone? I guess i always would have thought a tri tone would be like three different notes not two notes a fixed number of steps apart.

I just read something hmmm its the devils interval wow!
 
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Paleo

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
It's an interval of 3 whole steps between 2 notes.

It's a half step larger than a Perfect 4th (Aug 4) and a half step smaller than a Perfect 5th (dim 5th).

It is exactly half of an octave.

And the most dissonant interval.
 
Paleo

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
A Major scale has 3 whole steps between the 4 and 7:

W W H W W W H

Guess which notes are omitted in the pentatonic.
 
JohnHurley

JohnHurley

Rock and Roll
Paleo said:
A Major scale has 3 whole steps between the 4 and 7:

W W H W W W H

Guess which notes are omitted in the pentatonic.
Click to expand...

When you show WWHWWWH which letters are you calling the 4 and the 7? I think you mean the H is the 7?

Or is the root the 1?

I think major pentatonic would be 2 2 3 2 3 in terms of how many half steps?

So is it
1234567
WWHWWWH

Sorry cant seem to find a font that matches the numbers with the letters here.

So if it is 2 2 3 2 3 ... then 1 2 4 5 ( root )?
 
MikeS

MikeS

Student Of The Blues
Staff member
1W2W3H4W5W6W7H8
or maybe clearer :
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1
W W H W W W H

And clearer yet...?
1 is the root the 2 is a whole step up, the 3 is a whole step up from there the 4 is a half step up form there.....
 
MikeS

MikeS

Student Of The Blues
Staff member
1W2W3H4W5W6W7H8
or maybe clearer :
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1
.W W H W W W H

And clearer yet...?
1 is the root the 2 is a whole step up, the 3 is a whole step up from there the 4 is a half step up form there.....
 
Paleo

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
The letters W & H represent the intervals between the scale degrees. Not the numbers.

I could write it like this (though I've never seen anyone do this):

1 W 2 W 3 H 4 W 5 W 6 W 7 H 8

In C:

C D E F G A B C = C W D W E H F W G W A W B H C

The 4 and 7 are F and B with 3 whole steps between them, F to G, G to A, A to B.

4 to 7 in any Major scale are a tritone apart. (The b7 and 3 in the V7 chord,)

And are the 2 notes not in the pentatonic.

So the pentatonic doesn't have any half steps or the tritone.


Diatonic scales have 2 diatonic half steps either 2 or 3 whole steps apart.
 
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Paleo

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
JohnHurley said:
Thanks maybe someday this stuff will make sense to me!
Click to expand...
I would suggest doing Griff's "Guitar Theory Made Useful....." course.

And go in order from the beginning.

Our discussions seem to be leading "backwards" to more basic stuff.

Usually when there's confusion it's because we don't understand the prerequisite concepts we need.

Today we're discussing the basic intervals in a Major Scale.

That's where we should actually start.

We relate all things back to that scale.

Each lesson in the course builds on the previous ones.

Again, just a suggestion.

We can wander around for days (weeks, years...)

Or stop and get a map.


I speak from experience.
 
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JohnHurley

JohnHurley

Rock and Roll
Thanks Paleo yeah I started that course a long time back ... sounds like a good one to put on my radar screen after I retire.

Everyone learns differently and for me most of the time I just want to play guitar.

But i mean sure I can play major and minor scales and pentatonics etc on guitar I just never think of anything in terms of what the 4 or 6 or 7 etc is while I am playing it.

I do actually know the root is one but I didn't understand if your WWH thing was starting on the two or the one it threw me off apparently.

Thanks for all the help you provide here!
 
Paleo

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
JohnHurley said:
I do actually know the root is one but I didn't understand if your WWH thing was starting on the two or the one it threw me off apparently.
Click to expand...
Just to make sure....

A "step" formula (W's & H's) doesn't start on the 1 or 2.

It starts between the 1 & 2.

A "scale" formula starts with the 1.

For ex:

A minor:

A B C D E F G A

Step Formula: W H W W H W W (starting with the Whole Step between A & B)

Scale Formula : 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 1 (starting with the A)


I don't think of the scale degree numbers while I play, either.

But I know where the sounds they make relative to the tonal center are.

We gotta have some way to communicate with others,

That's when we need the numbers,
 
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Paleo

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
But you're not talking strictly theory.

Theory doesn't require any instrument.

You're talking theory applied to the design of the keyboard.

And, yes, the black and white patterns are "easier" to see for some than "boxes" on a guitar, but you have to understand the Major scale concept before the patterns on either will make any sense.

And, yes, there's a reason why music majors, regardless of their chosen area, are also required to take piano.

And, yes, I know what you're saying.

I ain't trying to cause trouble.

We discussed it elsewhere recently.

I also worked it all out on piano in a cubicle in the Fine Arts building at Geneseo State in 1969 when I should have been in Physics class.

I'm just sayin' it ain't necessarily so.

I can now picture Major scale steps just fine along a guitar string or in various patterns across the neck.

And I also know how having more than one place on the guitar to play the same thing will drive some back to the piano.

And I constantly picture other scale and chord shapes even when I don't want to!!!!

That's why I'm here. It's an obsession!!!

I've often thought of taking an old guitar and painting little "white stripes" on the neck on all the natural frets and black ones on all the sharps/flats.

Someone will probably post a pic from someone who's done it.

And for more fun check out posts online suggesting that learning theory on piano will be detrimental to learning guitar.

But those won't be by me.

And I've been rambling more than usual lately.

That usually ends up getting me in trouble.

Hopefully it's all good.
 
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