Modes

[dwparker]

Ok, I give, for the life of me I can't wrap my head around why there are modes and why they are needed. In my previous guitar endeavors before BGU, I learned and understood major scales, pentatonic scales, minor scales, harmonic minor scales, melodic minor scales and whole tone scales. To me that seems to cover all the bases. Why would I ever need to use modes? To me they seem like a solution looking for a problem. What am I not undrrstanding here?

 

[Paleo]

Understandable.

However, only as long as the tonal center of a chord progression is the chord built from the first note of a scale.

For example, if I'm in the key of C Major and the C Major chord is the I chord, I'll play the C Major scale. What's the big deal?

If we still use the chords in the key of C, but make any chord other than C the tonal center, we get a different sound. A different mood.

That's what we call a different "mode" of C Major.

If we create a progression with Dm as the tonal center rather than C, we get a different sound.

It will sound minor, even though we are still using the same notes and chords from the same key.

We're in D Dorian.


It's similar to our pentatonic boxes.

If we play Am Box 1 over an Am progression it will sound like A minor.

If we play the same notes over a C Major progression it will sound like C Major.

The chords will determine what your ear hears as the tonal center.

Even though you are playing the same notes.


We can harmonize any scale. Creating chord progressions with any chord other than the one built on the root of the scale will be in a different mode.

Likewise, playing a scale from any note other than the root can be considered a mode of that scale.

 

[dwparker]

Ok, so if I am following you correctly, every scale degree in a scale, the tonic, supertonic, mediant, subdominant, etc, always corresponds to the same mode, eg. ionian, dorian, phrygian, lydian, etc, right?

So when playing a piece of music, in the key of of C, if an E chord is played, setting the tonal center at that moment in time, if I want to solo over that E chord, I should/could use the phrygian mode, correct? And then when the next chord is played, changing the tonal center, the solo should change to to the mode associated with new tonal center.

 

[Paleo]

Your on the right track, but don't have to think that hard.

(If in the key of C you'd have an Em, not E. That would be a key change.)

C Dm Em F G Am Bmb5

You could think "play C Ionian over the C, D Dorian over the Dm, E Phrygian over the Em, etc.".

However, you only have to think "play C Major over the whole progression".

The "sound" of each mode will be created "automatically" over each chord.

Though your ear might lead you to "target" the root note of each chord.

 

[Paleo]

Have you already checked out Griff's email today regarding the Dorian?

 

[jmin]

Have you already checked out Griff's email today regarding the Dorian?

(??? mine was on CAGED....)

Good discussion on MODES guys. I decided to try the next MODE in Griff's course during this corona camp-in...I got as far as Ionian 2 years ago! (I'll have MODES completed in 2036!) As I've been going though the Dorian lesson and solo, I'm still trying to figure out how I want look at this thing so I can remember it and use it. Not there yet.

 

[Paleo]

https://bluesguitarunleashed.com/bl...tent=2020-05-01_dorian-mode-blog&utm_term=all

 

[Paleo]

In "Modes Unleashed" the first progression is : G Em Am C D.

The tonal center is G = G Major = G Ionian Mode.

You can play any G Major pattern or G Major Pentatonic "Box" you like over the whole thing.


The second progression is : Am D G Em

These are 4 of the same chords as Solo 1, in a different order and with Am as the tonal center.

**Each chord is now serving a different function**.

Some teachers will tell you to also play the same G Major scale patterns over the whole thing.

But "Am" will sound like "home" and you'll be in A Dorian.

I prefer to just learn the Dorian patterns.

Which actually are the same G Major patterns, but started from "A".


You can play G Major, A Dorian, B Phrygian, C Lydian, D Mixolydian, E Aeolian and F# Locrian all in the same pattern/Box.

They are all the same 7 notes.

But each note has a different function in each mode.

Similar to every Pentatonic Box being 2 scales in 1, both Major and minor, a "Modal Box" is 7 scales in one.

You now have 7 notes to choose from to decide which one you want to make "most important", rather than just 2, even though you still have "the same" 5 boxes/areas.

Actually the chords will decide "the most important" note for you.

No matter what kind of progression you create using the 7 chords of a Major scale, you can play that Major scale over those chords.


(Notice I'm stressing that the same notes and chords each have a different function in each mode.)

 

[dwparker]

Yes right, E minor, of course.

I haven't checked out the email on dorian mode yet, I'll have to do that.

Thanks for your explanations as things are clearer. But being honest with myself I really need to just bite the bullet and dig into this and put in the time. That is the only way I'll internalize this. I guess the question is if this is really worth doing right now at this stage of the guitar journey, and I guess I have few other items which take higher precedence right now. But this is definitely now on the list of things to conquor.

Again, many thanks for your thoughtful replies, they are much appreciated.

 

[Paleo]

Just a final thought.

In Griff's "Guitar Theory Made Useful (And Easy)" course there's a short section near the bottom of page 59 titled:

"Why You Can't Just Use A Major Scale Over A Major Chord".

I "understood" everything else in this course but that one section.

I'd been over that section many times before it finally sunk in.

Function determines everything.

Once I understood that, the whole world of soloing opened up for me.

 

[Miles]

Sorry: my 2d worth (that's old English money) for what it's worth.

Modes are interesting. The theory behind them helps with some things. It opens up possibilities. But, generally it is not needed for the blues. There's a reason why there is a 'Blues Scale' and it is not a major scale, or a mode (which is essentially a major scale starting from a different note).

I don't know where you are on your blues journey, but there are plenty of places to go with the pentatonics (major and minor) and the blues scales without worrying about modes. Enjoy the journey, don't worry too much about the destination...

Just my opinion.

Miles.

 

[Paleo]

Well, one more "final" thought.

When you mix the Major and minor Blues scales/sounds you have all the notes of the Mixolydian and Dorian scales.

The Mixolydian scale is the "natural" scale to use over a Dominant 7 chord.

It is also referred to as the Dominant Scale.

Your can make use of these scales in the blues without understanding how they are used in a "diatonic modal progression".

Griff discusses their use in blues in his "Modern Blues Soloing" course, as well as some other places.

The chords of a standard blues progression aren't in any one key, much less a mode.

There's lots of approaches you can take for soloing in the blues as you move up the "levels of sophistication" for soloing that Griff describes.