modal chord cheat sheet.

[mountain man]

I'm hoping that you have time for this 12+ minute video explaining this modal chord sheet. He has 5 example's of popular songs where these modal chords are used. Does this chord cheat sheet makes sense for a quick analysis tool about which mode we can use on any particular song?

An additional question I have is when a mode is established for a song can we play that mode for all chords in the song or do we have go mode chasing like changing modes 1 & 2 in the Modes Unleashed course?

The 5 Most Popular Modes for Pop Songwriting! (Lydian, Mixolydian, Dorian, Aeolian, and Phrygian)

Tired of using the same chords? Enroll in The Song Science Series!2023 OFFER - Grab the "Extended Editions" of Song Science 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 at a bundle dis...

www.youtube.com

 

[MikeS]

Whew! I'd like to hear @Griff chime in here.
That chart seems to violate at least two "Rules" as I understand them.
The first song (Janes Addiction) doesn't seem to follow the SHR because it has a I major AND a II Major
Also I'm pretty sure Griff has said except in blues a 7th chord is Always the V. This chart shows 7th chords everywhere.

It's probably just my misunderstanding, but who knows?

 

[PapaRaptor]

I was surprised to see that the author had Sweet Home Alabama listed as being a I - bVII - IV to justify the Mixolydian mode. While the math actually works, it seems like it would be far fewer mental gymnastics to look at it as V - IV -I. I believe Griff has mentioned this more than once. This would use the Ionian mode, I think...

Edit: The more I think about this, the more my brain hurts. I don't think the math does add up. Admittedly, I'm not a devout student of modes, so if I'm way out in left field, please don't hesitate to tell me so. It would also seem to violate the SHR with a bVII and I (according to the author) both being major and two semitones apart.

Assuming the chords of SHA are D - C - G, using the YT author's logic. the appropriate Mixolydian would be A Mixolydian, ( A-B-C#-D-E-F#-G) no?
Yet, in noodling over the song it is the G Major scale (G-A-B-C-D-E-F#) that sounds most appropriate. But Mixolydian would be D Mixolydian, no? So if D Mix is the appropriate mode, doesn't that mean the song is in the key of G?

I'm going to go lie down now. I need a nap.

 

[mountain man]

Thanks for moving this to the General Music and Learning category. People can chime in now although I believe that @Griff is the BGU authority on what a good cheat sheet would look like for where to use which mode.

 

[mountain man]

Whew! I'd like to hear @Griff chime in here.
That chart seems to violate at least two "Rules" as I understand them.
The first song (Janes Addiction) doesn't seem to follow the SHR because it has a I major AND a II Major
Also I'm pretty sure Griff has said except in blues a 7th chord is Always the V. This chart shows 7th chords everywhere.

It's probably just my misunderstanding, but who knows?

Mike, He discusses why he is using the 7th chords early on in that if you remove the 7th interval you are left with either a Major or a minor chord. Also, as you mention in Blues we use 7th chords in places besides the 5 chord that does not conform to the standard harmony rule but our ears accept it.

In the Janes Addiction song where he has the I and II as major chords when I look at the chart the only mode that has this shown is the Lydian mode. (this chart shows the I chord as a I7 but as discussed earlier this can be looked at as just a I Major chord). One thing I notice about modal music with chord structures that have tonal centers with tonic chords that are not even part of the song is that they don't look like they conform to the standard harmony rule. But they do.... The tonal center would be the actual key the song is written in. I'm thinking this would be the Ionian mode.

 

[mountain man]

I was surprised to see that the author had Sweet Home Alabama listed as being a I - bVII - IV to justify the Mixolydian mode. While the math actually works, it seems like it would be far fewer mental gymnastics to look at it as V - IV -I. I believe Griff has mentioned this more than once. This would use the Ionian mode, I think...

Edit: The more I think about this, the more my brain hurts. I don't think the math does add up. Admittedly, I'm not a devout student of modes, so if I'm way out in left field, please don't hesitate to tell me so. It would also seem to violate the SHR with a bVII and I (according to the author) both being major and two semitones apart.

Assuming the chords of SHA are D - C - G, using the YT author's logic. the appropriate Mixolydian would be A Mixolydian, ( A-B-C#-D-E-F#-G) no?
Yet, in noodling over the song it is the G Major scale (G-A-B-C-D-E-F#) that sounds most appropriate. But Mixolydian would be D Mixolydian, no? So if G Mix is the appropriate mode, doesn't that mean the song is in the key of G?

I'm going to go lie down now. I need a nap.

You are kinda demonstrating why for modes having a "cheat sheet" would help us out so much. I look at this sheet, look at the modes and see that the Mixolydian mode should be the mode used. And the tonal center would be the I chord of the Ionian mode (I think?). For modes a cheat sheet would help in not overthinking things....... I need to just use what empirically works and stop thinking about it......

I needed to edit my previous answer so the above paragraph has changed.

 

[TexBill]

What stood out to me in his chart, and please correct me if I am not seeing the big picture, was the second column (thinking minor) has all notes with upper case Roman Numerals. Aren't the 2 normally minor?

 

[mountain man]

What stood out to me in his chart, and please correct me if I am not seeing the big picture, was the second column (thinking minor) has all notes with upper case Roman Numerals. Aren't the 2 normally minor?

Four of the chords in the 2nd column are minor 7th chords. But you ask a good question. Thinking of how Griff presented the modes in his course each mode has a different I chord than the tonal center which is the I chord of the Ionian mode. The Ionian mode would be the true Major key (I think?). So the 2nd column shown here for all of the modes are not really the true II chord in the tonal center. The tonal center is the key shown in the Key signature and using modes would the Ionian mode. Each mode is not a new key. I think?

 

[dvs]

In that chart, the roman numeral represents the root of the chord in the modal scale, with a flat or a sharp to denote differences between that modal scale and the ionian (Major) mode.

Also in this chart, the capital M denotes Major (M7 means major 7, and plain old 7 means dominant 7) and the minus sign denotes minor. That is pretty normal terminology.

The list of the chords in each line of the chart treat each mode as a unique key, and these are the diatonic chords in that key. My opinion is that this is academically correct and an absurd way to think about (or try to use) modes. Memorize 7 different diatonic chord sequences, and figure out the root notes for each starting on any of the 12 notes on the circle of 5ths. (84 different keys? Come on...)

I think not doing that is a big part of where the "U" in GTMU comes from.

 

[mountain man]

The list of the chords in each line of the chart treat each mode as a unique key, and these are the diatonic chords in that key. My opinion is that this is academically correct and an absurd way to think about (or try to use) modes. Memorize 7 different diatonic chord sequences, and figure out the root notes for each starting on any of the 12 notes on the circle of 5ths. (84 different keys? Come on...)

A unique key being a mode with the tonal center of the Ionian major scale as the key. Unless it minor and then I'm not sure. Modes are not keys. This is pretty much how Griff has the modes course set up. Everything starts with the Major scale and each of the 7 notes of the scale are the start of a new mode. These 7 notes follow the standard harmony rule for which modes are Major and which are minor. In theory you can have a new key and 7 modes for all of the 12 notes within the octave. Twelve keys, 84 modes. I think.

 

[mountain man]

What stood out to me in his chart, and please correct me if I am not seeing the big picture, was the second column (thinking minor) has all notes with upper case Roman Numerals. Aren't the 2 normally minor?

If you look at the modes from 1 to 7 (Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, Locrian) it is those modes that will follow the standard harmony rule. Because they are based on the I, Ionian mode being the major scale. So the modes that are Major are 1, 4, 5 (Ionian, Lydian, Mixolydian) and the scales that are minor are 2, 3, 6 (Dorian, Phrygian, Aeolian) with the 7 (Locrian) being diminished. So as you can see the 2 mode Dorian is always minor. Where is gets funky is when you look at the 7 chords for each of the modes. Modes are not keys. The standard harmony rule is more clear for keys and not so clear for chords in the modes. That's when Griff gets out his white board on theory day, marks it up with multiple colors and starts looking at tonal centers for the key and that special gyration as to how the modes actually do conform to the standard harmony rule.... but all that is beyond me right now....

 

[TexBill]

Four of the chords in the 2nd column are minor 7th chords. But you ask a good question. Thinking of how Griff presented the modes in his course each mode has a different I chord than the tonal center which is the I chord of the Ionian mode. The Ionian mode would be the true Major key (I think?). So the 2nd column shown here for all of the modes are not really the true II chord in the tonal center. The tonal center is the key shown in the Key signature and using modes would the Ionian mode. Each mode is not a new key. I think?

That would make more sense than his way of explaining the modes. After watching that video, I watched Rick Beato go over modes. The Beato way was hand written on a white board (rather large one) and he used the method of each mode starting on different note as the one of the mode. So if the first mode is C Major the next mode would start with D and so on for each modal change. I think. The # or b is omitted for the purpose of demostrating how the starting note advances with its relation to C major.

CDEFGABC
DEFGABCD
EFGABCDE
FGABCDEF
GABCDEFG
ABCDEFGA
BCDEFGAB

Thus the Ionian mode is another name for the Major Scale.

Thanks for simplfying the method used in the video linked to your original question.

 

[Griff]

Ok, so I didn't get very far because when that first grid pops up on screen I can see what he's doing...

Instead of remembering one SHR, he's made a new rule for all 7 modes. So for the Jane's Addiction song, he calls it a Imajor and IImajor where I would call it a IV and V (using my trick of 2 major chords 1 whole step apart.)

If I see that the "tonal center" is IV, I know I'm using the Lydian mode. Whether or not I want to call it a "I" at that point is kind of academic.

He's renumbering the tonal center to I, no matter what. I don't like doing that for the purposes of analysis because it requires you to remember so much.

 

[mountain man]

I no doubt was confusing a few things like what a tonal canter might actually be? But I have to admit that this chart and presentation was making sense to me........ more study may be necessary.....