IT IS TAKING ME A LONG TIME

[guitarchris]

Gang,

I have been working on this course for a while now.  I'm still not able to play the songs along with the recordings.  I am anxious to start the unleashed course but am holding off until I can play these songs.  Maybe I'm doing something wrong.  I have been at it for almost 5 months now and I'm still not very good.  Any advice?

 

[Marv]

Chris,

Five months seems like a long time, but it's not really all that long and you may be better than you think.

Post a recording of one of your lessons in the section just below this one.  No one will laugh or cry (we've all been there) and you may get some good tips.

If you need help recording, look down at the recording tips at the bottom of the forum.

 

[cowboy]

Chris,

Five months seems like a long time, but it's not really all that long and you may be better than you think.

Post a recording of one of your lessons in the section just below this one.  No one will laugh or cry (we've all been there) and you may get some good tips.

If you need help recording, look down at the recording tips at the bottom of the forum.

+1...agree with Marv....posting your lessons is not only a great way to get some advise/feedback but also to use as a motivational tool.....I haven't recorded in a while...time to heed my own advise... :...later.

cowboy

 

[Elio]

Gang,

I have been working on this course for a while now.  I'm still not able to play the songs along with the recordings.  I am anxious to start the unleashed course but am holding off until I can play these songs.  Maybe I'm doing something wrong.  I have been at it for almost 5 months now and I'm still not very good.  Any advice?

I have been at bbg for about 9 months and I 'm down to the final lesson. One thing I can say is that progress is really not very linear. I have gone through phases where I felt a lot as you do,  and others where I surprised myself at what I accomplished. The goal I set for each lesson was to be able to play well enough to get most or all the way through the exercise with a minimum of mistakes,  at which time I would post my recording and finally move on to the next one. I found that setting the goal of posting each recording was a great motivator and it gave me tangible evidence of my progress, along with getting great feedback from the forum. And if you run into a problem,  that is also a good reason to post a recording in order to get some feedback.

The trick is that if you really get stuck on something it may make sense to go on to something else for a while,  but making sure that you don't dart around without really devoloping confidence in any one lesson.

 

[panther]

Guitarchris;
I've been at it 2-1/2 years, and I feel like I'm, not as good, as I should be either.
Like I've said before, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it, and music would probably be boring.
Practice, Practice, Practice. You are getting better, but it like a tree growing, it's so slow, only people that see it once in awhile see the growth. If it's in your own back yard, it seems like it isn't growing, but it is, trust me.
I had a rude awakening one day, when it dawned on me, that everything you play, you must learn it by memory, at least until or if you can read music. There is no magic formula, that one day you can just play it all, unless of course all you play, is what you create yourself. One small step at a time.
Dan

 

[Marv]

Guitarchris;
I've been at it 2-1/2 years, and I feel like I'm, not as good, as I should be either.
Like I've said before, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it, and music would probably be boring.
Practice, Practice, Practice. You are getting better, but it like a tree growing, it's so slow, only people that see it once in awhile see the growth. If it's in your own back yard, it seems like it isn't growing, but it is, trust me.
[glow=yellow,2,300]I had a rude awakening one day, when it dawned on me, that everything you play, you must learn it by memory[/glow], at least until or if you can read music. There is no magic formula, that one day you can just play it all, unless of course all you play, is what you create yourself. One small step at a time.
Dan

Not sure I agree completely, Dan.  You make the memorizing sound hard, but a movable 12-barre chord pattern isn't that hard to memorize. Once learned, it applies to the vast majority of blues songs in any key.

Learning a lick is as simple as learning a string of notes, sometimes as few as one or two. Soon you can string the few licks you know together in a bunch of ways.

A five minute improvised solo is soon no harder than a single 12-bar solo.  You didn't memorize the whole solo in advance, but you did learn its pieces by memory.

 

[Ivan]

Hey Chris.....learning guitar especially for mature guys like most of here is a struggle because we try to perfect everything instead of having fun with it.

I started last April on BGU and still haven't completed the third solo because it's never good enough.

We put too much pressure on ourselfs as adults to be perfect and forget about focusing on the big picture....having some fun with it!

As kids we learned quickly because we were resilient and didn't give a crap. Today we need to take a different approach.

Learn someting new each day no matter how small and one day you'll wake up and it'll just happen. You have to keep persevering and I know that's tough but one day you'll wake up and it will all come together.

Don't give up......have fun.....put a recording or two together....you may be surprised with the results.

 

[Lame_Pinkey]

5 months is not that long for a musical instrument (except maybe a kazoo  ;D, although I agree with Marv that it may seem long & if you were baking a cake it would be  : however we are not doing that ... we are cooking but its the blues that's in the oven !)
Look toward the future not whats in the past, if you look towards where you'll be in 6, 12 , 18 months from now you'll have a focus. That doesn't mean dissmiss what you have done so far , not by any means and as has been suggested record a few things if you can - even small pieces - go back & listen to them periodically & compare your progress. Now if you record a piece & go back to listen to it  6 weeks later, then try to play it & you haven't improved you could get very discouraged but how often did you practice that particular piece during that 6 week period ?
That will be crucial to your improvement, so if you can record your best piece from BBG practice it every day give yourself some rest from it once or twice a week though, then record that in 6 weeks time then sit back relax & listen to both versions side by side or get someone else to listen with you & ask them which one they think is the best.

LP

 

[samwell]

Gang,
I have been at it for almost 5 months now and I'm still not very good.  Any advice?

only 5 months? nothing wrong with not being very good (whatever that means) at this point: 5 months ain't a real long time, enjoy the trip & recording really helps, just keep at it.... [smiley=beer.gif]

 

[guitarchris]

Chris,

Five months seems like a long time, but it's not really all that long and you may be better than you think.

Post a recording of one of your lessons in the section just below this one.  No one will laugh or cry (we've all been there) and you may get some good tips.

If you need help recording, look down at the recording tips at the bottom of the forum.

Thanks.  I will try to start posting recordings of my playing.  The problem I have with all of that is I really don't know how to do it and it seems really complicated for me....I just don't want to get all caught up in the recording aspect of guitar and lose time for practicing playing the guitar.....

 

[rusty62196]

Hang in there. I'm crawling thru it too. It takes what it takes. I just keep listening to these guys that are ahead & try to do what they did.

 

[Elio]

Chris,

Five months seems like a long time, but it's not really all that long and you may be better than you think.

Post a recording of one of your lessons in the section just below this one.  No one will laugh or cry (we've all been there) and you may get some good tips.

If you need help recording, look down at the recording tips at the bottom of the forum.

Thanks.  I will try to start posting recordings of my playing.  The problem I have with all of that is I really don't know how to do it and it seems really complicated for me....I just don't want to get all caught up in the recording aspect of guitar and lose time for practicing playing the guitar.....

There is a bit of a time investment to get set up but it is really not difficult, depending on your amp,  etc.  I am using Audacity (which is free)  with my G DEC 3 Thirty,  and it is really pretty easy. Check out the Recording thread for the various discussions and suggestion. There are a lot of good ideas there.  And when in doubt,  just ask.

 

[panther]

Guitarchris;
I've been at it 2-1/2 years, and I feel like I'm, not as good, as I should be either.
Like I've said before, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it, and music would probably be boring.
Practice, Practice, Practice. You are getting better, but it like a tree growing, it's so slow, only people that see it once in awhile see the growth. If it's in your own back yard, it seems like it isn't growing, but it is, trust me.
[glow=yellow,2,300]I had a rude awakening one day, when it dawned on me, that everything you play, you must learn it by memory[/glow], at least until or if you can read music. There is no magic formula, that one day you can just play it all, unless of course all you play, is what you create yourself. One small step at a time.
Dan

Not sure I agree completely, Dan.  You make the memorizing sound hard, but a movable 12-barre chord pattern isn't that hard to memorize. [glow=yellow,2,300]Once learned[/glow], it applies to the vast majority of blues songs in any key.

Learning a lick is as simple as learning a string of notes, sometimes as few as one or two. Soon you can string the few licks you know together in a bunch of ways.

A five minute improvised solo is soon no harder than a single 12-bar solo.  You didn't memorize the whole solo in advance, but you did learn its pieces by memory.

Marv;
I don't want to sound too forwards, above you say, "a movable 12-barre chord pattern isn't that hard to memorize. Once learned....
Nothing is hard, once you learn it, then it's easier to apply.
I think you are putting too much into what I wrote. What I said Was, and you left half of it out, "that everything you play, you must learn it by memory, [glow=yellow,2,300]at least until, or if you can read music.[/glow]
I'm confused, once you know the chords, and notes, how else are you going to play a song, if not by reading it, or memorizing it ? Learning the shapes, scales, boxes, chords, notes on the neck, and all the other things that go with it, [glow=yellow,2,300]IF they were simple for you to learn, that's great, [/glow]no so much for me, it took [glow=yellow,2,300]a lot of time[/glow], and a [glow=yellow,2,300]lot of practice.[/glow]  I had to memorize every song I play, or I have to read it from a sheet. Now what can you possibly disagree with that ?? I will agree, that one day, I may be able to improvise a solo, but I still have to learn, where each, and every note is, by memory, to be able to play it. I don't recall a book of, "Original Improvisation". You still have to put it to muscle memory.
If you have a better, simpler way to learn, PLEASE tell me.

Dan

 

[Marv]

I didn't say we don't need to memorize things.  But we only need to memorize fairly simple things and then the order in which to put those simple things together.  This keeps us from having to relearn the same thing over and over. Griff teaches us to look for these common elements in each blues song.
 
For example, a song or solo can be memorized as a series of notes.  This is only good for use in one song because we learned it as that song, think of it collectively as that song and it isn't chunked into useful reusable sub-parts.

But if we learn the same notes as a series of chords and licks, especially in blues, but also in rock, we will find those same licks popping up again and again.  Sure, the order might change, but the licks will be the same. And we already know chords and don't relearn them every time.

We can also examine the song to see how it fits into patterns we know, like boxes and familiar chord shapes. This cross referencing makes it easier to remember.

Still, thinking of a song as a seemingly endless series of notes, we sometimes don't see the forest for the trees. (Or the licks for the notes.) Thinking of the same notes as licks, when we get a new song, we say, "Hey! I've been in this part of the forest before!"  Some of the trees are different, but I've definitely been here!

When you set out to learn a piece, perhaps the best thing to ask yourself is "How many ways can I find this piece is the same or similar to something I already know how to play?"  Then focus on memorizing only what is different and cleaning up the connections between the old and the new.

I'm not trying to minimize how hard it is to memorize a song as a unique series of notes. That would be really hard. 

I know we all learn differently. You asked for a "better way". What's better for me may not be better for you, but if you or anyone else is frustrated with their progress, it might be something to try.

 

[panther]

Marv;
I understand, what you are saying, I didn't ask for a better way to learn, I Said, "If you have a better way PLEASE show me".

That's like, OK I've learned the Alphabet, Forwards, and Backwards, BUT I STILL CAN"T READ, OR WRITE.

I know all 5 Pentatonic, and Blues Scales, I know the neck, Over, Under, sideways, down, backwards, Forwards, clear around. Now someone needs to show me how to use all that information.
OH you want to be able to play music, why didn't you tell me that in the first place, sorry, can't help you there, you are on your own.
Does that sound even remotely familiar to anyone ?

Dan

 

[Marv]

We are kind of derailing this thread, but the mods can move it if they like.

I've been posting and reposting this reply, so I'm not sure which ones you've seen.  I'm trying to be helpful, just not sure how to say I think you're making it way too hard on yourself.  We don't learn all the words in the dictionary before we can speak and communicate effectively.  To the contrary, we only learn a couple of words before we start doing that.

You are way ahead of me in detailed knowledge and there really isn't a 12-bar blues song I won't play or fake.

Seriously, if you feel after all this time with all this knowledge, you can't play music at all, stop and back up.

Master just 3 movable chords and one simple solo in one box pattern and put those chords and solo to work for you in every key and at different tempos and rhythms using 12-bar blues backing tracks.

If it were me, I would refuse to play anything else until you can do this.  It's a very limited amount of actual material to master.  Play it over and over in as many situations as you can come up with and see the commonality in all these songs. 

Record yourself with the backing tracks until the songs sound good.  Don't try to completely mimic what you hear on the tracks, just try to fit in with the other players.  Your job is not to play on top of them.  After all, they are already taking up that space.

From one tune to another, "all" that changes is your timing and rhythm. Otherwise, play the same chords and notes. I don't mean to imply that's easy, but it doesn't involve memorization or reading music.  It involves doing lots of reps of the same thing.

Tap your foot, use your ears and listen carefully to each track and try to blend in with the other players.  Listen for and anticipate the chord changes by counting or catching signals from the drummer, depending on how good you feel about counting at this stage. Regardless, change chords when the band changes chords.  The chord progression is always the same.  Your solo notes will always be the same.

One solo and three movable chords is not a lot of muscle memory or memorization and you will truly be able to make music enough to get up and jam with a band.

Why do you think everyone recognizes a B.B. King lick, or a Clapton lick or a Stevie Ray lick?  Because they played basically the same thing over and over in their own ways.  You can too.

 

[Bluesgrass]

Great advice Marv!!  I've been doing what you said on my own in the key of C.  Trying to find how the progression connects, and the scales that lay over it, in the most economical way possible.  So much one can do in such a small space.  Add in different chord voicing and rhythms and the possibilities appear endless.  Thanks for your insight. 

 

[guitarchris]

You guys are way more advanced than I am.  I'm not even sure I understand what your saying.  I think I'm realizing that there are about 1 million ways to learn to play guitar and that it's pretty personal and opinions vary a great deal.  I am trying to take Marv's advice and figure out how to record myself playing but that in and of itself is a real struggle for me.  I can play a song perfectly and then once I hit the record button it's like I forgot everything.  I'll keep at it though. 

As i said before I'm almost finished with the BBG course so I watched the intro for the BGU course and I must say I'm a little concerned.   Griff talks about major and minor scales and how chords are made.  Are we supposed to know the major and minor scales before starting the course.  I'm almost done with BBG and I do not remember any mention of these scales.  I understand the C major scale because Griff tells me the notes but have no idea how you come up with them.  Guess I'll be in the BBG course a while longer....the sitting on the porch stuff that is supposed to be easy.....aint that easy for me.

CG

 

[Marv]

You guys are way more advanced than I am.  I'm not even sure I understand what your saying.  I think I'm realizing that there are about 1 million ways to learn to play guitar and that it's pretty personal and opinions vary a great deal.  I am trying to take Marv's advice and figure out how to record myself playing but that in and of itself is a real struggle for me.  [glow=yellow,2,300]I can play a song perfectly and then once I hit the record button it's like I forgot everything.[/glow]  I'll keep at it though. 

As i said before I'm almost finished with the BBG course so I watched the intro for the BGU course and I must say I'm a little concerned.   Griff talks about major and minor scales and how chords are made.  Are we supposed to know the major and minor scales before starting the course.  I'm almost done with BBG and I do not remember any mention of these scales.  I understand the C major scale because Griff tells me the notes but have no idea how you come up with them.  Guess I'll be in the BBG course a while longer....the sitting on the porch stuff that is supposed to be easy.....aint that easy for me.

CG

Sounds like you're perfectly normal.  It's one of the reasons Griff has us get up and play live at BGU Live.  All our brains turn to mush and our fingers to sausages.

Just keep plugging at what you can do, trying to add a little more every once in awhile with a new lesson. You will read something here, hear something in one of Griff's lessons, things will click and you will have an "ah-ah moment", as we've come to call them.  It takes time to absorb all the material, but you don't need to absorb much to play and have fun.  Don't wait to master everything to do that.

Recording will also help more than you know.

The major/minor sound stuff comes up all the time.  You do not have to know the scales in advance.  Some people never learn them as scales with note names, just the various "box" patterns Griff demonstrates.

The only difference between a major and a minor box pattern is where it sits on the fretboard.   Minor is always offset from major, three frets closer to the bridge.  Don't worry about it now.  If you just learn Griff's solos, it's already built in.

 

[Lame_Pinkey]

No you do not need to know the Major &/or the minor scale , these are introduced later in the book/DVD & they are not daunting nor are they are not to be feared.
The scales prsented are the Pentatonic Scale & that only contains 5 notes as opposed to the Major/minor scales 7 notes.
As I say you need not know any of them they will be introduced to you in the book & you can then work at understanding them at your own pace ... you have always got friends here on the forum to help you along with any questions you have.

LP