is a 9th chord always a 9th chord?

[snarf]

Question for the more theory minded among us. I was playing along to a jam track tonight, and I got a bulb while I was playing.

Looking at the pic below, there are 3 different ways to play a D9 chord. Going from the left, we have kind of the power chord version of D9. The middle is a variation that I think sounds good sometimes as an alternative to the one on the left (I dig the sound of the F# in it). And the one on the right is the D9 that we learn to play in blues.

Here's my question. I can easily see why the left and the middle are called D9. However, tonight I realized that the one on the right has a 7 in it. So is it really like a D7/9 or something or why is it called D9? The theory that I remember tells me that I should add whatever flavoring I'm adding to the chord name (hence asking about it being a D7/9) so a D9 would be 1, 3, 5, 9 or some variation of those 4. Adding a 7 into that would make it...something else. Or does adding the 9 negate the fact that a 7 was added when it comes to naming the chord. Or is it that we play 7s all the time in blues, so the blues version is simply called D9 because the 7 is implied because blues?

Am I on the right track or is it time for me to step away from the crack pipe for the night?

 

[PapaBear]

I seem to find there are many chords that overlap and depending on the key or context may be the same or similar, even more so as you play smaller chords and strip away the Bass or root note

 

[PapaRaptor]

The 9 chord (or dominant 9) is built on a dominant 7th chord.
Here is a chart that will make it clear as mud a bell.
https://www.jazz-guitar-licks.com/pages/chords/dominant-13-chords-13-guitar-diagrams.html
However, the additional intermediate notes are not always included.

 

[snarf]

The 9 chord (or dominant 9) is built on a dominant 7th chord

So follow-up question. And I apologize for being thick headed when it comes to theory stuff. My relationship with theory is kind of like Calvin with Susie...we've got that love/hate thing going on.

So a 9th chord would be 1, 3, 5, b7, 9. Does that mean that the other two chords I have above are really a D2 (or Dsus2) just with the 2 as a 9 instead?

Also, I'm a huge C&H fan. Have been since it showed up in the papers in 1985. So, for your non-music enjoyment, here's how my relationship with theory could be best illustrated. In case you're wondering, I'm Calvin and theory is Susie.

 

[Paleo]

Your first chord is a Dsus2, i.e. with a 2 rather than a 3. 1-2(9)-5

Second chord is a Dadd9. 1-3-5-9 (no 7). Not all intervals are stacked 3rds.

Third one is a D9 or Dominant 9, 1-3-5-b7-9. Dominant family chords have a 3 and b7. Built by stacking 3rds.

Lesson 7, Guitar Theory Made Useful (And Easy).

 

[snarf]

Your first chord is a Dsus2, i.e. with a 2 rather than a 3. 1-2(9)-5

Second chord is a Dadd9. 1-3-5-9 (no 7)

Third one is a D9 or Dominant 9, 1-3-5-b7-9. Dominant family chords have a 3 and b7.

And this is why theory and I have the relationship that we do. All of these are so similar, yet so different. lol

Lesson 7, Guitar Theory Made Useful (And Easy).

Thank you, sir! I usually pull the theory book out before asking these questions, but didn't tonight. I'll take a look at that chapter probably this weekend.

 

[Paleo]

All of these are so similar, yet so different.

One note can make all the difference in the sound of chords, as well as the scales they come from.

 

[CaptOblivious]

I find this website handy for chord ID and fingering positions, the theory course is on my to-do list, right after counting, could be awhile

Guitar Chord Charts

 

[PapaRaptor]

So follow-up question. And I apologize for being thick headed when it comes to theory stuff. My relationship with theory is kind of like Calvin with Susie...we've got that love/hate thing going on.

So a 9th chord would be 1, 3, 5, b7, 9. Does that mean that the other two chords I have above are really a D2 (or Dsus2) just with the 2 as a 9 instead?

Also, I'm a huge C&H fan. Have been since it showed up in the papers in 1985. So, for your non-music enjoyment, here's how my relationship with theory could be best illustrated. In case you're wondering, I'm Calvin and theory is Susie.

View attachment 13369

What @Paleo said!

And yet, they all will work!

 

[Stephanie-NoelDodt]

I find this website handy for chord ID and fingering positions, the theory course is on my to-do list, right after counting, could be awhile

Guitar Chord Charts

Thanks for that chord chart.... and Happy New Year!

 

[Paleo]

And yet, they all will work!

It's all about function.

If all three "D" chords are being used as V chords, + or - one or more notes is still gonna work.

Function is THE single most important concept I have learned from @Griff.

Each note has a function in a scale, each scale degree has a function in a chord and each chord has a function in a progression.

Finally understanding this opened up the "art" of soloing for me.


There is a short section in Lesson 13 of "GTMU" on pages 59-60 entitled "Why You Can't Just Use A Major Scale Over A Major Chord".

I'd been through the course 3 or 4 times and that was the one section in the whole course that I never understood.

Then one day going through the entire course again, it finally clicked.

Understanding that one short section opened up everything for me.

Putting on my best Ed McMahon impression "EVERYTHING you could ever want to know is in that envelope (course)."

 

[Paleo]

...the theory course is on my to-do list, right after counting, could be awhile

Nothin' wrong with adding in a few minutes a day in the theory course while you're working on other things.

It might even end up helping with your counting.

 

[JPsuff]

Question for the more theory minded among us. I was playing along to a jam track tonight, and I got a bulb while I was playing.

Looking at the pic below, there are 3 different ways to play a D9 chord. Going from the left, we have kind of the power chord version of D9. The middle is a variation that I think sounds good sometimes as an alternative to the one on the left (I dig the sound of the F# in it). And the one on the right is the D9 that we learn to play in blues.

Here's my question. I can easily see why the left and the middle are called D9. However, tonight I realized that the one on the right has a 7 in it. So is it really like a D7/9 or something or why is it called D9? The theory that I remember tells me that I should add whatever flavoring I'm adding to the chord name (hence asking about it being a D7/9) so a D9 would be 1, 3, 5, 9 or some variation of those 4. Adding a 7 into that would make it...something else. Or does adding the 9 negate the fact that a 7 was added when it comes to naming the chord. Or is it that we play 7s all the time in blues, so the blues version is simply called D9 because the 7 is implied because blues?

Am I on the right track or is it time for me to step away from the crack pipe for the night?

View attachment 13368

When playing a Blues progression, I almost always play the third chord (Dominant 9th) as the 4 & 5 chord because it sounds fuller and more "Bluesy" than just a 7th.

When playing from a minor 1-chord (like in a Jazz Blues progression), a sharp 9th (Jimi Hendrix chord) sounds great as a short transition chord at the end of the progression to get back to the minor 1 chord.

Another cool version of that chord is in the song "Breathe" by Pink Floyd where at the end of the progression before going back to the Em there's a half-measure combination of a D#9 to a Db9 which to me is the signature hook of that particular progression.

Overall, 9ths are very cool chords!

 

[snarf]

Then one day going through the entire course again, it finally clicked.

That's part of the problem with me and theory. The more I think I learn about it, the more I realize there is so much I don't know, and those moments of things clicking don't seem to occur nearly as often as I think they should.

 

[MikeS]

I use this site:
https://jguitar.com/
You can: Chord Namer-key in a fingering on a fret board, Chord Search-ask for a fingering by name (Ab9) plus Arpeggio calculator, Chord calculator & Dictionary.

 

[BoogieMan]

It's all about function.

There is a short section in Lesson 13 of "GTMU" on pages 59-60 entitled "Why You Can't Just Use A Major Scale Over A Major Chord".
I'd been through the course 3 or 4 times and that was the one section in the whole course that I never understood.
Then one day going through the entire course again, it finally clicked.
Understanding that one short section opened up everything for me.

Not to hijack this thread but since you brought it up, I just reviewed that section and still don't see it. I get that playing the G major scale from the 4th degree (C) gives you C lydian but I still don't see how playing the C major scale over a C major chord (regardless of whether it's functioning as a lV chord) could be a problem. Of course, if you were trying to play a G major scale over the C major chord, the F# would clash. Maybe I'll get it some day like you did.

 

[CaptOblivious]

Nothin' wrong with adding in a few minutes a day in the theory course while you're working on other things.

It might even end up helping with your counting.

I hear ya
About a 1/3rd of the way through Chord by Chord Soloing course - counting is getting a workout in that course -

 

[david moon]

Your first chord is a Dsus2, i.e. with a 2 rather than a 3. 1-2(9)-5

Second chord is a Dadd9. 1-3-5-9 (no 7). Not all intervals are stacked 3rds.

Third one is a D9 or Dominant 9, 1-3-5-b7-9. Dominant family chords have a 3 and b7. Built by stacking 3rds.

Lesson 7, Guitar Theory Made Useful (And Easy).

Don't see it. The first chord is 1 5 1 2. Usually I have seen it called sus2. Would probably resolve with the 3 on the first string 2nd fret.

The second chord is kind if awkward but if you want to play it that way, is 1 5 2 3. The 2 and 3 are in the same register so will be quite dissonant. Probably want to resolve back to 1 5 1 3 which is the standard open D chord

 

[Paleo]

@BoogieMan

We can go into more detail elsewhere, but for now....

If C is a IV chord you're in the Key of G. The F# over the C chord becomes a #4, creating the C Lydian sound.

If C is a V chord you're in the Key of F. The Bb over the C chord becomes a b7, creating the C Mixolydian sound.

You can, of course, play the C Major pentatonic over a C Major chord, regardless of function.


In general, the Major scale played over each chord in the Key will produce a different "modal" sound.

 

[Paleo]

Don't see it. The first chord is 1 5 1 2. Usually I have seen it called sus2.

Silly me. I called it a sus2.

In "classical" harmony, the 2 is held over from the previous harmony and resolved to the 3 of the next chord, i.e. it is "held in suspense" within the new chord, then resolved within it.

In today's world we just use it whenever we like.

Needles And Pins.


In the second chord the E is an octave above the 2 and would be considered a 9, thus 1 5 9 3.

Regardless of order, a 1 3 5 9 is an "add9" chord.