I might have found something you don't know? S1

Discussion in 'Recording Tips and Tricks' started by Elwood, Sep 11, 2020.

  1. Elwood

    Elwood happy camper

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2018
    Messages:
    1,007
    Likes Received:
    1,035
    Hey,

    Just doing the VJR I grabbed yesterday's tune, with all the setup stuff. To save time, and since I got a decent tone yesterday. So I deleted all the song data, music stuff, but left all my settings.
    I drug in the track from Mike and away I go, I made a mistake.
    I only armed one guitar track (of the three). So when I recorded my masterpiece, much to my dismay I had the vjr jam track and one guitar track, with two track silent.
    I felt the time, and figured I played what I was going to so I (very clumsily) copied my new guitar "event" into the two tracks. I was hoping to ace the course here and have all three tracks just like I had done it from the start.
    That worked! Here comes the good part...
    I went in the top track to use the Gain envelope editing. I thought I would have to do all 3 tracks like yesterday.
    NO! Editing the top track did all three together!!!!!

    I thought this was awesome so I wanted to share. I hope this made sense.

    If I am the only one who didn't know this please just delete this post and I'll disappear into the smoke.:eek:
     
    PapaRaptor likes this.
  2. PapaRaptor

    PapaRaptor The Central Scrutinizer
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    7,299
    Likes Received:
    11,707
    Yes, it can be an excellent tool or in some case, your worst nightmare. It doesn't matter if you duplicate a track or if you separately add tracks and then copy and paste the events from the original track, they are all linked, because they are all working from the same copy on the recording pool. If that's what you want to do, that's great.

    If you would like to deal with each track separately, bounce any copies before working on them. That will create a separate copy in the recording pool and then you can work on each track individually.
    WorkingWithDuplicates.jpg
    You'll notice on the section before the bounce, all three events share the same file name.
    After the bounce, the two dupes of the original get a number appended to the end of the file name.

    I'm quite sure you weren't the only one who didn't know this. I found it out when I was fooling around with copied 12 bar loops, building a jam track.
     
    Elwood likes this.
  3. Elwood

    Elwood happy camper

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2018
    Messages:
    1,007
    Likes Received:
    1,035
    That was my "Edison" moment. I knew you would be able to explain it in a useful way. I think this is an awesome "shortcut" or "process improvement" if used intentionally and properly. Kinda fits with the template thing.

    Thanks for the excellent pick up on this Papa!

    edit: @PapaRaptor , so does "bounce" have other functions besides:

    1) joining fragmented segments of a track
    and
    2) giving us a "handle" to allow separate handling of copied tracks?

    It's like work (used to be), "common terms" can lead to misunderstanding, sometimes.

    trying to maintain a common vocabulary with myself....
     
    #3 Elwood, Sep 11, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
    PapaRaptor likes this.
  4. CaptainMoto

    CaptainMoto Blues Voyager

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2012
    Messages:
    8,295
    Likes Received:
    6,653
    OK guys,
    At first I thought Elwood's exuberance over his new discovery clouded his ability to explain what happened.
    Sorry buddy:rolleyes:
    Then Papa came in and completely confused me more.
    Sorry Papa.:oops:

    I'm still confused as to what heck you're talking about:cautious:
    I guess it's not Elwood, it's me.o_O
     
    PapaRaptor likes this.
  5. PapaRaptor

    PapaRaptor The Central Scrutinizer
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    7,299
    Likes Received:
    11,707
    This discussion started in the the Splitter thread. @Elwood was asking about a method he was using to achieve the same effect as the splitter by creating a duplicate track of his dry track (actually two duplicates of the original).
    He found that when he duplicated them and then enabled the clip gain function on one of the three tracks (Original and two dupes) any changes he made to one of the three tracks was mirrored on the other two tracks.

    This is because he is operating directly on the source event (pre-fader, directly from the original source input file). We know this because even after duplicating the file twice, there is only one copy of the file living in the file pool for the song. (as can be seen in the top half of the screen snap I posted. He is operating directly on that file. The duplicate tracks are simply "shortcuts" to the original event.

    By bouncing the duplicate files, he is physically making copies of the original file (as can be seen by the two additional files shown in the bottom of the screen snap). Once the two dupes have been bounced, they can be manipulated as if they were separate recordings (because after bouncing, they are in fact, separate files).

    Thank you for calling us on it. If you didn't get it, you're probably not the only one. I appreciate the opportunity to clarify it. We were clearly working with shared information you hadn't seen. I really appreciate that you asked for clarification. If I have difficulty explaining it so it's clear to you, I can well imagine that someone just starting out is having a WTF moment.
     
    Elwood likes this.
  6. Elwood

    Elwood happy camper

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2018
    Messages:
    1,007
    Likes Received:
    1,035
    And Papa was trying to make ice cream out of.....
    Sorry I was confusing, welcome to my world.
    Like Papa said, sure glad you asked!
    I am trying to apply much of what you have patiently taught me on this board. Many of these concepts were introduced to me, by you.
    Yeah, all you guys are great. Some move you here, some move you there.
     
    PapaRaptor and Hangnman like this.
  7. CaptainMoto

    CaptainMoto Blues Voyager

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2012
    Messages:
    8,295
    Likes Received:
    6,653
    I think I got it.
    Carry on boys.
    My need for clarification is not limited to this discussion...........I'm a general slow learner.:sleep:
     
    PapaRaptor and Hangnman like this.
  8. PapaRaptor

    PapaRaptor The Central Scrutinizer
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    7,299
    Likes Received:
    11,707
    Griff's AAP webinar actually touched on a bit of this and he made an observation I hadn't really paid attention to.
    There are essentially four variants with S1 that give various differing ideas of a "bounce."
    Merge Events will allow you collect events and move them around the timeline together, so if you have several different clips in a track, you can Merge them and move them within the timeline as if they are one event. They still remain separate for individual event editing, like Clip Gain.
    Bounce will take all highlighted events within a track and merge them into one event. This is pre-fader and before any effects within the channel strip are applied.
    Bounce to New Track will make a copy of all highlighted events within a track, and place them on a new track without disturbing the existing track. This will also apply any effects (and the fader level) within the source channel strip. It is not affected by the setting of the Main Out. It does not join the new track into a single event. It also mutes the source track (this can be countered by going back to the source track and unmuting it.
    Mixdown Selection combines Bounce and Bounce to New Track. It creates a new track combining all individual clips into a single clip and applies the fader level and applies all effects within the source channel strip. It also mutes the source track.

    Something that wasn't covered...
    You have two ways to select events within a track. How you do it can make a huge difference in the results.

    Merge Events
    cannot be selected if Events are selected using the Range Tool.

    Bounce

    • If you use Shift-Left Click to select events within the timeline, they will all be combined into one event. If the events are not contiguous, you will see periods of not signal, but the entire clip will be one larger event. The location of the left-most event will determine where the bounced event begins.
    • If you use the Range Tool you are highlighting time (or bars) within the event, only the highlighted portion of the timeline will be bounced, even if there is no event in the time period. For example, if you bounce a track that has the first event located 4 bars into the track, but you highlight all events and the empty space at the beginning of the track, the bounced track will start at the beginning of the track. The actual time the first event starts will still remain the same, but you will have 4 bars of silence in the track before it starts.
    • You cannot use the Range Tool to select Events and Merge Events
    Bounce to New Track
    • You cannot use the Range Tool to select Events and Bounce to a new track.
    Mixdown Selection
    • Using Shift-Left Click, you can select multiple events to Mixdown to a new track. The mixed event will start at the same point in the timeline as the first selected event and end at the last selected event.
    • Using Shift-Left Click, If you omit one (or more) events within the timeline (like selecting the first, third and fifth events, but not the second and fourth), The mixdown will only include the selected events.
    • If you use the Range Tool, the mixed result will include everything highlighted. The mixed clip will begin at the point of the left side of the selected range and end at the right side of the selected range. If a portion of an individual event (start or end) is not highlighted, it will not be included in the mixdown.
    • Like the Bounce, the Mixdown Selection mixes down by time and includes all events within the selected range.
    The Merge function also made me wonder if two or more events can be "unmerged." If you did it by accident, you can use CTRL-Z (Undo), but if you intentionally merged it so you could move the events around together, Undo will not work. In order to "unmerge" you select the merged event long after you merged it, right-click on it, go to the Audio sub-menu and then select Dissolve Audio Part. This doesn't win the intuitive User Interface award for the week.
     
    #8 PapaRaptor, Sep 11, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
    MikeS and Elwood like this.
  9. Elwood

    Elwood happy camper

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2018
    Messages:
    1,007
    Likes Received:
    1,035
    I need that icon thing with the guy with his eyes spinning in circles.

    Whew! I need to print this!
     
    PapaRaptor likes this.
  10. PapaRaptor

    PapaRaptor The Central Scrutinizer
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    7,299
    Likes Received:
    11,707
    I'm going to do a video on it, so I can remember it.
     
    Elwood likes this.
  11. Griff

    Griff Chief Cook And Bottle Washer
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,513
    Likes Received:
    1,696
    Phew!

    Yeah, the details can get overwhelming. Honestly, I'd make a video on the different selection modes and tools if I could wrap my head around them well enough. Somehow I'm able to bumble through and make things work, despite never being all that clear about what I'm doing :)
     
    Elwood likes this.