I give ... Counting

Steve F.

Blues newbie
Try and try as I might I can't get through this countig issue.
I have some feel to beats but when I try to count it all goes awry.
I want to strum or strike something on every count.
Working on the Soloing for Beginners. By feel I can play the rythmn, as soon as I start to count I want to strum on every 1, and, ah. So it's not working.
Griff mentioned prior lessons where he works on this.
I searched in the lessons on Counting found a good blog but no lesson.
Any help finding a good leeson (video) would be much appreciated.

Sorry to ramble on.

Steve F.
 

Rad

Blues Newbie
Try and try as I might I can't get through this countig issue.
I have some feel to beats but when I try to count it all goes awry.
I want to strum or strike something on every count.
Working on the Soloing for Beginners. By feel I can play the rythmn, as soon as I start to count I want to strum on every 1, and, ah. So it's not working.
Griff mentioned prior lessons where he works on this.
I searched in the lessons on Counting found a good blog but no lesson.
Any help finding a good leeson (video) would be much appreciated.

Sorry to ramble on.

Steve F.


Ya gotta get all the parts working together, hands, feet, mouth....

Something younger beginning music student are taught, it will sound silly but it may be something you never worked on....walking in time with a beat, clapping your hands in time with the beat and counting out loud in time with the beat doing all of them at the same time. Then just sit and do the same just tapping your foot. Progress to more complicated beats. Then add your guitar.

Silly I know, but you don’t have to do it very much to get the parts working together.

I apologize if this is way to basic.

My credentials....I suck at counting. So, I have had to put a lot of extra effort into it.

Good luck
 

Shodai

Blues Junior
I have never had an issue with counting, then again I'm a drummer. It's all counting.

It may sound weird, but just start counting all the time. Listening to the radio in the car, listening to music at home. If you're just watching the news and a commercial comes on, count along with the jingles. Let it become a part of what your do.

Counting is a skill like any other. Stick with it, you'll get it and be much more musical as a result.
 

MikeS

Student Of The Blues
Staff member
Try just counting several different feels (Straight, shuffle/swing, Mambo (Straight but odd) without the guitar.
If you can do that, then slow the track WAAAYYY down and try it with the guitar in hand.
 

JohnHurley

Rock and Roll
Its a work in progress ... it does not come fast sometimes in bits and pieces ... the faster a song the harder it gets.

i do think it is helping me a lot ...

I am also finding sometimes words against certain songs can give me a better feel than counting in certain songs. A blues boogie woogie feel ... boogie woogie woogie boogie shoes? Thrill is gone ... you can use in your mind “the thrill is gone / thrill is gone away” maybe or ha ha it can work for me.

Try slower songs and force yourself to count and not strum on some of the counts ...

Faster stuff play and just count along without playing ...

Mostly its your brain you are training ... it takes time and work.
 

OG_Blues

Guitar Geezer
Start with something really simple. I mean like just quarter notes. Something that you can do right. Gradually add complexity. If you can't do it right as you add complexity, slow down to a PAINFULLY slow tempo. I mean glacier movement tempo. Only speed it up if/when you can do it right.
This will not be fun - but you will make progress. As you progress, the sense of accomplishment will be great, and it will be worth while, and it will get easier and easier as you build this skill!!
 

TxStrat

Lovin’ the journey of life and the blues
It’s definitely been humbling for me too. I’ve played guitar for years but never got into counting until I found Griff. I’ve completed ABGU and sort of halfway started counting through it, but now I’m going through Classic Rock Guitar Unleashed and really emphasizing learning to count. If anything I think it’ll make me a better musician and be able to read music better. It’s also good for the brain! Hang in there, I’ve played guitar for awhile just on my own and it gets fun and rewarding learning skills.
 

Steve F.

Blues newbie
I want to thank everyone. Not sure I am ready for the Strumming and Rhythm Mastery course.
I can count the different feels pretty well. It's the not hitting a note but still having a count that twists my brain up.
I will slow things down and fumble thru this until I can get it. Sounds like it's a struggle for most of us. But rewarding when it is accomplished.
It's such a basic thing I guess I felt it should come easier than it does.
One thing no one answered was if there were older videos Griff had put out to work on counting. He mentioned them in the Blues Soloing for Beginnners video.
 

Elio

Student Of The Blues
Try and try as I might I can't get through this countig issue.
I have some feel to beats but when I try to count it all goes awry.
I want to strum or strike something on every count.
Working on the Soloing for Beginners. By feel I can play the rythmn, as soon as I start to count I want to strum on every 1, and, ah. So it's not working.
Griff mentioned prior lessons where he works on this.
I searched in the lessons on Counting found a good blog but no lesson.
Any help finding a good leeson (video) would be much appreciated.

Sorry to ramble on.

Steve F.

I have been really pushing myself the last few years to get on the counting bandwagon, but I run into the same problem. The two things that help for me are:
  1. Start counting while just listening to the thing you are trying to play, without a guitar in your hands but with a foot tap or other motion. Do this multiple times to focus on the feel of the count without getting distracted with trying to play at the same time..
  2. When it's time to play, slow the counting and playing way down to an excruciatingly slow speed a few times
What if find is that once it clicks, it's much easier to keep it up.
 

TxStrat

Lovin’ the journey of life and the blues
I want to thank everyone. Not sure I am ready for the Strumming and Rhythm Mastery course.
I can count the different feels pretty well. It's the not hitting a note but still having a count that twists my brain up.
I will slow things down and fumble thru this until I can get it. Sounds like it's a struggle for most of us. But rewarding when it is accomplished.
It's such a basic thing I guess I felt it should come easier than it does.
One thing no one answered was if there were older videos Griff had put out to work on counting. He mentioned them in the Blues Soloing for Beginnners video.

He emphasizes counting a lot in Acoustic Blues Guitar Unleashed. So far I'm through Lesson 4 in Classic Rock Guitar Unleashed, covering quarter, 8th and 16th note rhythms and it's been heavily focused on counting as well. Lesson 5 will be over triplets and I'm betting it's probably the same. Hope that helps and answers your questions.
 

david moon

Attempting the Blues
the whole point is to count and know where NOT to play. Like coming in on a solo not right on the downbeat.

I would also suggest counting along while listening before trying to play along.
 

dwparker

Bluesologist
It's the not hitting a note but still having a count that twists my brain up.
I will slow things down and fumble thru this until I can get it.

So keep the puck moving and hit a muted string instead. Like when playing dunk with 1/16 notes.

Also, when I hit a tricky phrase in a piece of music, I tend to count it out and pantomime the right hand movement away from the guitar until I get it right, which seems to help me with counting.

But yeah, at the end of the day, having to count can really suck, but there is no avoiding it. So I do it, most of the time.
 

LoriB

Blues Newbie
As adults we want to play music that is interesting - and therefore more complex - but if we do not have a good foundation of counting whole, half, quarter, and 1/8 notes, we are lacking that basic foundation.

As a kid when I learned how to play the alto sax, I think we spent the first several YEARS with music that did not exceed straight 1/8th notes. That is a LOT of practice reading and counting very easy music (tapping your foot and counting in your head since you can't count out loud and play sax ;)). Adults quickly get bored hanging out at this level - we want to move on too quickly. None of us want to spend years playing quarter note nursery rhymes.

Before getting into swing eights, triplets, and 1/16th with lots of rests and ties, go back and make sure you are rock solid with 1,2,3,4 quarter notes, and then 1& 2& 3& 4& playing on every 1/4 or 1/8th note while you count (hopefully this part is easy). Play thru Am pentatonic box 1 this way with a metronome on a moderate speed.

Then try adding some rests ( ) so you have to think about leaving space:
i.e. (1)&2(&3)&4& playing 1/8th notes thru Am pentatonic box 1 while counting this out loud.
If that is not easy to do - you need to spend time on that level of stuff before getting into more complex material.
Missing downbeats and playing upbeats takes time to learn. The foot goes down on the downbeats and the pick hand wants to join in.

It is boring and painful - but counting works.
 

Steve F.

Blues newbie
So keep the puck moving and hit a muted string instead. Like when playing dunk with 1/16 notes.

Also, when I hit a tricky phrase in a piece of music, I tend to count it out and pantomime the right hand movement away from the guitar until I get it right, which seems to help me with counting.

But yeah, at the end of the day, having to count can really suck, but there is no avoiding it. So I do it, most of the time.

Thanks. I will give that a try. Something I haven't tried.
 

Steve F.

Blues newbie
As adults we want to play music that is interesting - and therefore more complex - but if we do not have a good foundation of counting whole, half, quarter, and 1/8 notes, we are lacking that basic foundation.

As a kid when I learned how to play the alto sax, I think we spent the first several YEARS with music that did not exceed straight 1/8th notes. That is a LOT of practice reading and counting very easy music (tapping your foot and counting in your head since you can't count out loud and play sax ;)). Adults quickly get bored hanging out at this level - we want to move on too quickly. None of us want to spend years playing quarter note nursery rhymes.

Before getting into swing eights, triplets, and 1/16th with lots of rests and ties, go back and make sure you are rock solid with 1,2,3,4 quarter notes, and then 1& 2& 3& 4& playing on every 1/4 or 1/8th note while you count (hopefully this part is easy). Play thru Am pentatonic box 1 this way with a metronome on a moderate speed.

Then try adding some rests ( ) so you have to think about leaving space:
i.e. (1)&2(&3)&4& playing 1/8th notes thru Am pentatonic box 1 while counting this out loud.
If that is not easy to do - you need to spend time on that level of stuff before getting into more complex material.
Missing downbeats and playing upbeats takes time to learn. The foot goes down on the downbeats and the pick hand wants to join in.

It is boring and painful - but counting works.


Thanks. I am at the rests part. I feel pretty comfortable playing 1& 2& etc. When I need to throw in a rest my hand says YOU GOTTA HIT SOMETHING. LOL Time and practice. Sounds like what it will take. Also sounds like I'm not the only one to go thru this process.
 

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
You will always be doing something on every count. Just not necessarily picking/strumming a note.

You may be picking a note, holding a note from the previous count or stopping the note from the previous count (rest).

All 3 of these are active, purposeful actions you will preform. (As your foot goes up and down.)

Adding to what @LoriB said, I would suggest going in the other direction and start with some whole and half notes.

This will "force" you to play on a beat and hold the note for more than 1 beat, while you continue to count.

Notes have a time value, a duration, and will ring out even as the count continues, until the next thing comes along (in time) to tell you to do something else.

For example, for a whole note you would play on beat 1 and do nothing but hold it while you continue to count beats 2, 3 and 4.

Adding in a rest is just a matter of stopping a note, rather than holding it.


Most beginner's guitar courses will start you out with note values, while at the same time teaching the notes on each string in open position.

Yes, playing simple "etudes" with only whole notes with E, F and G on the 1st string.

It may not be "cool" as an adult to go back to some of those courses that I remember from when I was a kid, but timing and counting in music haven't changed.

It might be useful to go back to the very beginning.

As Griff does in "Acoustic Blues Guitar Unleashed", Lessons 4 & 5.:sneaky:
 
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Rad

Blues Newbie
I gotta thank Griff again for harping on this darn counting thing.

I was digging Hot Rod Lincoln out of the memory banks this AM and trying to convince my fingers that they did in fact know this song and that iconic opening lick at one time. I never had trouble with that lick, well, that was after practicing it forever. But, I always struggled a bit with the timing between chords when adding in a couple pickup notes between chords. There was nothing difficult about the chords or notes, but the timing was just not there for me. I could get it, but not keep it.

This time I just counted.....it worked....imagine that! :D

The transition between the cowboy chords are just two pick up notes as I play it. Counting made it soooooo simple. The pickup notes come on (4) & (4 and).....Crazy, why had I not done this ages ago....

As many years as I have been playing I’m amazed at just what I don’t know :eek:
 

Shodai

Blues Junior
When I was younger... a lot younger, my first drum instructor came from a jazz/prog rock/technical drumming background. He was very much into odd meter, odd groupings, poly-rhythms, poly-meter... Needless to say, counting was important.

Once I got the basics down, this is an exercise that he gave me to develop my counting, and to facilitate moving from even to odd groupings. Subsequent exercises built off of this by inserting accents, changing the sticking, inserting rests. It wasn't about speed, it was about keeping the subdivision evenly spaced and musical. Sometimes we'd do this exercise at 40 or 50 BPM.

At the time it was both boring and frustrating. Looking back, I get it, and I appreciate that he had me do it. I think it built a very solid foundation when it comes to counting and understanding where I am in a piece of music.

I'm not sure how something like this could be developed to make it applicable to guitar. But since we're talking counting, I thought I'd share.
 

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