I am not a social media type person...

John-G

The Long and Winding Road
People - put things in their correct perspective. It's ONLY about guitars and stuff. We're not debating critical global issues here. As much as I love guitars and playing them, I won't let anything or anyone unbalance me or my health. True - everyone has a different opinion and a unique way expressing himself, verbally and in writing, but taking into consideration we're all grown-ups here, we should all practice self restraint, even when encountering opinions opposed or different to ours.
Like so many others already stated - move on if you see something you don't like. It's that simple.
There's no room for egos here - this is a forum dealing with music, guitar playing, having a good time and helping each other, all in a good friendly, supportive and courteous atmosphere.
I'm not taking sides here, and never will. I leave it up to those engaged in the conflict to patch things up between them, for the good of themselves and all other members of this forum, and the sooner the better.  Peace to all   [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
 

cowboy

Blues, Booze & BBQ
I was up very late last night pondering this current situation...I've been in this forum for quite a while. I now have many close friends in BGU and many more I would like to meet someday but...

I have friends that are on both "sides" of this "discussion" but have watched this escalate into a major flame war.

I am considering leaving this forum .... but does that make me part of the problem or part of the solution?

I'm too old to have a major part of my life be turned in turmoil...

I need to take a few days and think about it...maybe we all do...

...later.

cowboy
 

aleclee

Tribe of One
The biggest thing I see missing in this discussion (and this board) is an ignore feature.   When I get sick enough of seeing someone acting the fool, I like to use technology to avoid the irritation.  If the number of people on my ignore list gets big enough, I start to question whether the community is a fit for me.  In a couple cases, I walked away.  Nothing personal, nothing dramatic. I just came to the conclusion that the benefits weren't worth the irritation.

At the end of the day, it's just words on a screen.  How those words affect you is pretty much up to you.  Guitarists are frequently narcissistic and the anonymity of the interwebz offers a certain license for folks to get in touch with their inner a-hole.  That combination can make for an interesting dynamic on guitar discussion boards. 

In the 12 or so years that I've been a moderator/admin on various guitar discussion boards, forums seem to follow one of two paths over time:
[list bull-redarrow][*]They grow and lose that "small-town feel".  Newbies don't respect the norms of behavior established by the early members and the site's personality becomes somewhat diluted.
[*]They become insular with one or more cliques forming.  Communication becomes focused the rehashing of inside jokes and tends to stray farther from the original purpose of the community. New members generally don't last long as they're not in on many of the jokes and fail to find the content they came looking for.
[/list]

The reason I brought up the two paths is the dilemma I see in the situation discussed in this thread. While I think that BGUF is a wonderfully supportive community, I haven't seen anything that is a violation of the rules we agreed to as members.  There's certainly some question about adhering to the norms of the community but it's hard to ask Griff to whack somebody because they don't play as nice with others as we might like.

TL;DR -- It would probably be more effective to request the implementation of ignore lists.  Trolls are narcissists and if you ignore them, they'll either go away on their own or escalate until they get banned.  Conversely, banning can lead to admins playing "whack-a-mole" as banned members keep popping up with alter egos.  I can say that confidently with ample first-hand knowledge.  :-/
 

Cowboy Bob

Horse Player/Guitar Wrangler
I've been around here a few years too, but I really don't post much.  I typically read what is said and go on.

Like many I had pledged to myself to keep out of this, but when I see long standing and respected members of this forum even considering leaving, well I just cannot let it go unsaid.

In my opinion, the only way to fix any of this is to STAY.  Lead by example.  Each and every one of us needs to conduct ourselves in a civil manner.  Apply the Golden Rule.

I don't know all the details, nor do I care to at this point.  Yes I have seen at times responses from certain members that seem to be abrupt, and perhaps even rude.  I may be guilty of that myself in someone's eyes.  I truly hope not because I do find that you will reap what you sew.  We all will at some point.

Sure there will be disagreements.  Of course there will be some feelings that will get stepped on, whether it is intentional or unintentional.

Like many others have said, if there are posts by any particular people that you have found to be offensive, ignore them, it really ain't that hard to do.

The moderators are here for a reason.  If you feel the need, speak to them about an issue and let them deal with it as FAIRLY as they can.


Please, those that feel like seceding from Our Union here, reconsider.  Only with your positive participation can we all improve our world here.

Thanks for listening

Bob
 

MikeS

Student Of The Blues
Staff member
This thread presents a dilemma  for me as a moderator. With so many long term member threatening to leave the forum because of the behavior of a relative few, I feel the need to  say something. On the other hand there is nothing abusive in this thread, so I should really just let it run its course.

There have been members that have gone over the line. When that occurs, the moderators HAVE taken behind the scenes action (from requests that they stop to temporary suspension of their forum privileges) and some people have moderated their behavior (to the extent of even deleting their own posts) some just adamantly argue their position.

What really causes all the acrimony is when everyone ELSE feels the need to chastise someone. It's not your job or your place to do it. Leave it to Griff and the moderators.
Please try to understand that you may have a lower threshold for disagreement and "discussion" than we do.
This thread is a perfect example of the problem.
One member has decided to maybe leave the forum.
That SHOULD have been followed by a simple list of well wishes and maybe  request to stay. But because so many feel the need to point out the REASON for his decision (something that HE chose NOT to do) this thread has gone in a different direction.

I can count the people with real issues with each other on  the fingers of one hand and have some fingers left over. I just don't see why that few people should have any bearing on the thousands of others here.

Someone said it above...
"Take  breath, get a drink, then come back".
 

sloslunas

NM Blues
It seems to me that everyone has had ample time and an equal opportunity to express their concerns about Forum etiquette in this thread (and I certainly want to thank Griff and the moderators for their tolerance in allowing that to happen). I do think that it is time to put this to rest and move forward. I know that many of you view this as an extremely negative post/thread. I, on the other hand, don't. I have learned a lot listening to everyone's comments and concerns. My hope is that all of this can be turned into something positive. For that to happen, I think that we all need to step back, and take a few deep breaths. If we truly want to keep this the best forum on the planet, we all need to put our emotions aside and [glow=yellow,2,300]objectively[/glow] internalize what everyone has said to this point (whether we agree or disagree with their point of view). If I have personally offended anyone on this forum you have my sincere apology.

Steve
 

Rancid Rumpboogie

Blues Mangler
It seems to me that everyone has had ample time and an equal opportunity to express their concerns about Forum etiquette in this thread (and I certainly want to thank Griff and the moderators for their tolerance in allowing that to happen). I do think that it is time to put this to rest and move forward. I know that many of you view this as an extremely negative post/thread. I, on the other hand, don't. I have learned a lot listening to everyone's comments and concerns. My hope is that all of this can be turned into something positive. For that to happen, I think that we all need to step back, and take a few deep breaths. If we truly want to keep this the best forum on the planet, we all need to put our emotions aside and [glow=yellow,2,300]objectively[/glow] internalize what everyone has said to this point (whether we agree or disagree with their point of view). If I have personally offended anyone on this forum you have my sincere apology.

Steve
Steve, you have not offended me.  Not in the least.  When you started this thread, you did so to point out the venom and animosity on this forum in general.  You did not point fingers at me in particular.  Someone else did that.  And there has been plenty of venom and animosity demonstrated in this thread, most all of it aimed at me.  I do not blame you for that or hold you responsible for that.  Several others have said that they also intend to leave due to the venom and animosity demonstrated here.  I agree with Cowboy Bob that leaving will solve nothing, but perhaps staying and leading by example might.  I implore you to STAY.  Just as I implore the others who have said they are leaving to STAY also.
As for LLL, well ...  ;D
 

Bill T

Binge Drinker
E
Hey Mod-er-ator delete this thread

A
Hey Mod-er-ator man, please delete this thread

B                                                                          E B C E
You don't want no BS, you don't want no bad thread

:cool:
 

John-G

The Long and Winding Road
Cowboy Bob wrote :
In my opinion, the only way to fix any of this is to STAY.  Lead by example.  Each and every one of us needs to conduct ourselves in a civil manner.  Apply the Golden Rule.
MikeS wrote :
Someone said it above...
"Take  breath, get a drink, then come back".
slosunas wrote :
For that to happen, I think that we all need to step back, and take a few deep breaths.
CaptainMoto wrote :
Let the healing begin.
RR wrote :
I agree with Cowboy Bob that leaving will solve nothing, but perhaps staying and leading by example might.  I implore you to STAY.  Just as I implore the others who have said they are leaving to STAY.
=========

C'mon guys, we all let out a little steam, we're all here with a mutual interest, so let's all do a re-think, re-start and re-turn to where we all were before this snowball started.  :)
 

jmin

Student Of The Blues
...And, it has come to a point that I am no longer willing to endure the venom and animosity that others feel is there right to espouse.. On that note, I will be staying in the distant background, and if need be quit the forum altogether. I really hate to see such a wonderful asset wasted to the petty, insecure, few.
Amazing! One of the most read posts of the month and there's not a single guitar solo, mention of equipment, music theory question, or even a tweedlie! Griff, quick call Dr. Phil or Jerry Springer...you may be on to something!
Honestly, I haven't experienced any "venom" or "animosity" (even from RR!) on this forum. As for the "petty" and "insecure" few, know when to sit one out - especially if you're out of tune!!!
 

Griff

Vice Assistant General Manager
Staff member
It seems to me that everyone has had ample time and an equal opportunity to express their concerns about Forum etiquette in this thread (and I certainly want to thank Griff and the moderators for their tolerance in allowing that to happen). I do think that it is time to put this to rest and move forward. I know that many of you view this as an extremely negative post/thread. I, on the other hand, don't. I have learned a lot listening to everyone's comments and concerns. My hope is that all of this can be turned into something positive. For that to happen, I think that we all need to step back, and take a few deep breaths. If we truly want to keep this the best forum on the planet, we all need to put our emotions aside and [glow=yellow,2,300]objectively[/glow] internalize what everyone has said to this point (whether we agree or disagree with their point of view). If I have personally offended anyone on this forum you have my sincere apology.

Steve
Thank you for chiming back in, Steve. I know I echo the sentiments of all when I say that we've always enjoyed having you here on this forum and we would hate it if you decided to leave for any reason.

The last couple of days have been really hard for me. I told Laura it's like watching my children fight and not knowing how to calm them down and teach them to be good to one another. Not that you all are children, but I feel the anguish much the same way.

I haven't even known what to write the several times I've sat down to try and chime in... I just looked at a blank screen not knowing how to collect my own thoughts.

You all have become like a family to us (and when I say "us" I mean Laura and I) and like with many families there will be ups and downs. But at the end of the day, whatever it is that comes between any of us subsides and we reconnect on our common footing.

I realize that a lot more has been said in this thread than we would normally tolerate from a moderator standpoint and that was on purpose. I figured if everyone got a chance to say whatever they need to say and really get it out then we can move on... I hope that's the case.

Our community is much larger than it used to be and, yes, it has changed over the years. And when changes occur they seem to come in waves, not steadily and that can be unsettling. This isn't the first time this has happened and it likely won't be the last.

The one constant is that I am here, our moderators are here, and there are many good people here. All of the above have your best interest at heart at all times. Remembering that no one wishes you ill will when you see something that ruffles your feathers goes a long way towards realizing that you may just be misinterpreting it.

It's a text based medium, there will be issues. But I hope that from this point forward we can deal with any new issues outside the magnifying glass of old ones. When we do, neither will seem so bad.

Thank you to everyone who posted their thoughts and feelings here, I can promise you they won't go unnoticed even if you didn't get some sort of reply. We, the moderators and I, take those into consideration on a daily basis before and after taking any sort of actions.

My hope is that this thread can now scroll off the bottom of the page and become part of our history and not our future... and we can all get on with playing the blues.
 

luckylarry

Student Of The Blues
I haven't given my opinion and that is going to stay that way. Looks like everyone is calming down and I am really happy for that.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
 

Domesticus

Blues Newbie
Seems like this thread has given me the blues.
Today at band practice I played better than ever.
Thanks, guys
 

FrankL

Mr. Bites Off More Than I Can Chew
It seems to me that everyone has had ample time and an equal opportunity to express their concerns about Forum etiquette in this thread (and I certainly want to thank Griff and the moderators for their tolerance in allowing that to happen). I do think that it is time to put this to rest and move forward. I know that many of you view this as an extremely negative post/thread. I, on the other hand, don't. I have learned a lot listening to everyone's comments and concerns. My hope is that all of this can be turned into something positive. For that to happen, I think that we all need to step back, and take a few deep breaths. If we truly want to keep this the best forum on the planet, we all need to put our emotions aside and [glow=yellow,2,300]objectively[/glow] internalize what everyone has said to this point (whether we agree or disagree with their point of view). If I have personally offended anyone on this forum you have my sincere apology.

Steve
Steve, you have not offended me.  Not in the least.  When you started this thread, you did so to point out the venom and animosity on this forum in general.  You did not point fingers at me in particular.  Someone else did that.  And there has been plenty of venom and animosity demonstrated in this thread, most all of it aimed at me.  I do not blame you for that or hold you responsible for that.  Several others have said that they also intend to leave due to the venom and animosity demonstrated here.  I agree with Cowboy Bob that leaving will solve nothing, but perhaps staying and leading by example might.  I implore you to STAY.  Just as I implore the others who have said they are leaving to STAY also.
[glow=yellow,2,300]As for LLL, well ...  ;D[/glow]
Really?!?!?  Griff are you really going to let this go???
 

Elio

Student Of The Blues
Really?!?!?  Griff are you really going to let this go???

I think that was just an attempt a humor. Unfortunately, online environments make it impossible to appreciate the little nuances of face-to-face communication that let us get away with comments that sound potentially terrible on their face but in reality are meant to lighten the situation through humor.   Technology definitely has its limitations.
 

Rancid Rumpboogie

Blues Mangler
Yes, it was meant as humor!  See the emoticon?

I most sincerely apologize to anyone whom I have offended.

Going forward, I would ask that at any time, if I ever do say something that you regard as offensive,  please send me a PM and I will modify my post to re-word it or remove it.

Opinions are what a forum is all about.  Disagreements are going to happen but this is the place we all want to be.

Yes, something you read may incense your sensibilities, but please just bring it to the attention of a moderator and let the moderator deal with it.

Again, I most sincerely apologize  to anyone whom I have offended.  And I do mean sincerely!

P.S. I was going to post this anyway, and had already cleared the verbiage with Griff and was waiting for an 'OK' from Cowboy as well.  But right now seems to be called for.
 

miko

Blues Newbie
Wow, just reading this thread for the first time...

All I can say is that I have made great virtual friends on this forum and love to share ideas with them. Whoever rubs me the wrong way I just ignore and don't read their posts.

It's like that on every forum, there are a$$ holes everywhere in the world. Just ignore them...
 
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