Help me out on a C chord extension

MarkRobbins

Blues Junior
I know that if I extend an open C chord shape by fretting the 3rd string at the 3rd fret, I get a C7; if I fret the second string at the 3rd fret, I get a Cadd9. My question is, what is the chord if I fret the 1st string at the 3rd fret? I have found it sounds good in place of a C minor, but I don't know what it is. :unsure:
 

Kommetjie

Blues Newbie
I know that if I extend an open C chord shape by fretting the 3rd string at the 3rd fret, I get a C7; if I fret the second string at the 3rd fret, I get a Cadd9. My question is, what is the chord if I fret the 1st string at the 3rd fret? I have found it sounds good in place of a C minor, but I don't know what it is. :unsure:

C
 

Momantai

Red nose, red guitar
C/G (C over G). In fact a C chord with its 5th as lowest note. The “standard” C chord has its 3rd (open E string) as lowest note unless you mute it with your thumb...

As G is the fifth degree of the C scale, it fits nicely over (almost any?) C chord.
 

PapaBear

Guit Fiddlier
If your muting the 4th string (another E) it's a C5 power chord and would substitute for a minor or major
 

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
what is the chord if I fret the 1st string at the 3rd fret?
It's still a C Major chord in root position. You're simply doubling the 5th (G) on top rather than the 3rd (E).

XCEGCE----->XCEGCG

(Technically, in this case, "adding" this note isn't an extension, since it's in the C Major triad.)


You can do the same with your Cadd9:

XCEGD
E----->XCEGDG


And your C7:

XCEBbC
E----->XXEBbCG (C7/E)

However, in this case, changing the lowest note affects the naming of the chord.
 
Last edited:

jmin

Student Of The Blues
I know that if I extend an open C chord shape by fretting the 3rd string at the 3rd fret, I get a C7; if I fret the second string at the 3rd fret, I get a Cadd9. My question is, what is the chord if I fret the 1st string at the 3rd fret? I have found it sounds good in place of a C minor, but I don't know what it is. :unsure:

C12???...and WHY aren’t there any “12” chords...?!
 

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
C12???...and WHY aren’t there any “12” chords...?!
The notes of a Major triad will always be considered the 1, 3 & 5 regardless of where they are placed or if they are doubled.

They don't become the 8, 10 & 12 if they are stacked in a higher octave.

We build chords in 3rds, 1 3 5 7 9 11 13. This is all 7 notes of a Major key.

Those numbers will apply regardless of where or in what order you place those notes.

For example, a 9 chord doesn't become a 2 chord if you place the 9 an octave lower.

(But the idea is to "spread" the taller chords out.)
 
Last edited:

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
We build chords in 3rds, 1 3 5 7 9 11 13. This is all 7 notes of a Major key.

Those numbers will apply regardless of where or in what order you place those notes.

I should add that if you are not stacking the notes consecutively in 3rds while incorporating the 7, the 9, 11 & 13 will usually be considered a 2, 4 or 6, their actual scale degrees, respectively, as in a Cadd4 or C6. The 2 may be considered a 9, as in Cadd9 or a 2 as in Csus2.

Dominant Family chords have a b7, as in C7.

I ain't makin' this stuff up.....:rolleyes:

.....this whole discussion is covered in Griff's "Guitar Theory Made Useful ( And Easy)", Lesson 7 on "Tall Chords".;):)
 
Last edited:

david moon

Attempting the Blues
I know that if I extend an open C chord shape by fretting the 3rd string at the 3rd fret, I get a C7; if I fret the second string at the 3rd fret, I get a Cadd9. My question is, what is the chord if I fret the 1st string at the 3rd fret? I have found it sounds good in place of a C minor, but I don't know what it is. :unsure:
I'll just repeat that 3rd fret 1st string is a G which is part of the triad, not any extension. However, if you are also fingering 4th string 2nd fret that would be a major chord and I don't know how that would sound good against a Cminor.
 

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
The OP says that the chord he is describing (but doesn't know "what it is") sounds good in place of a Cm chord.

Without a context within a progression there is no way to speculate about whether this voicing of a C Major chord should or shouldn't "work" in place of a Cm chord.

Bottom line is that if he thinks it sounds good, it does.


Perhaps @MarkRobbins could provide an example of a progression in which he likes to make this "substitution".;)
 
Last edited:

MarkRobbins

Blues Junior
Yeah, thanks, after I posted this I realized that I should have just broken down the chord into its elements: C, E, G, and I'd have known that I was just changing an E to a G, and it was just a different voicing of a C chord. I'm still in the "intermediate" player stage at best.

The chord progression I've been substituting it in (because it's really easy) is in the Beatles' "In My Life." The chord progression in the first two verses goes G D Em G7 C Cm G. Obviously, just using my little finger to fret the high E string at the third fret to change from the regular C shape is a lot easier than going to a barre chord to get a Cm, and to my ear it sounds just fine.
 

PapaBear

Guit Fiddlier
Yeah, thanks, after I posted this I realized that I should have just broken down the chord into its elements: C, E, G, and I'd have known that I was just changing an E to a G, and it was just a different voicing of a C chord. I'm still in the "intermediate" player stage at best.

The chord progression I've been substituting it in (because it's really easy) is in the Beatles' "In My Life." The chord progression in the first two verses goes G D Em G7 C Cm G. Obviously, just using my little finger to fret the high E string at the third fret to change from the regular C shape is a lot easier than going to a barre chord to get a Cm, and to my ear it sounds just fine.
Lighten your touch on the 4th string to mute that E on the Cm and it'll sound even better
 

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
The chord progression in the first two verses goes G D Em G7 C Cm G. Obviously, just using my little finger to fret the high E string at the third fret to change from the regular C shape is a lot easier than going to a barre chord to get a Cm, and to my ear it sounds just fine.
Cool.(y)

If you have Griff's theory course, this is the progression he refers to in Lesson 20, "The Beatles iv Chord".

That's what he calls the move from a IV chord to a iv. In this case, C Major to C minor before resolving to G.

Problem with doing this from an open position C chord, as you say, is there's no "easy" way to move from an E to an Eb in this position.

As you've "discovered", staying on C Major still works, however, leaving the Eb out doesn't give the sense of movement from Major to minor.


You could use the Cm barre chord shape without the barre, just using your 1st finger on that 3rd fret G. Fingers---->XX3421


Or try a Cm7, which is like the C7 with the 1st string G. But you still gotta use a barre to move down to that Eb.

Cm7.jpg

Just a couple of options to get that Eb in there somehow (if you want to).:)
 
Last edited:

david moon

Attempting the Blues
Yeah the whole point of that C to Cm progression is that the third moves. Adding the high G might make it seem like the chord is changing but it's not really.
 

JPsuff

Blackstar Artist
Yeah the whole point of that C to Cm progression is that the third moves. Adding the high G might make it seem like the chord is changing but it's not really.

The most common use of the 1st string G in a C chord is to set up for the G chord as in a G-D-C progression.

It also makes for a nice augmentation in the same way as adding the 2nd string C to a G chord or the 1st string G to a D chord.
 

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
All things lead back to the I chord, eventually, but the "set up" isn't always achieved in the same way.

Playing the high G in the C chord isn't adding to, extending or augmenting the chord. It's a note in the chord. You're simply doubling the G instead of the E. You might consider this "good" voice leading back to the I chord.

Playing a C in a G chord or a G in a D chord is adding a note not in the Major chord. In both cases the 4.

In open position, the G chord is a Gadd4 (1-3-4-5), while the D chord is a Dsus4 since the 3rd (F#) is absent (1-4-5)

In both cases, the 4 "needs" to resolve.

They could resolve to a I chord, but not necessarily.


And just for fun (and I've got nothing better to do):

https://dl.dropbox.com/s/9sch978unjyz4ob/High G.mp4?dl=0
 
Last edited:
Top