Free Tempo Recording

[BraylonJennings]

Ok, this is my recording testing out Bandmate as previously described. In most cases, I want to be able to follow the drummer, not have him follow me. But this is what came out. Unedited, its entirely the Bandmate suggested drum track, first option, no frills. I only added a crash at the end, and two little 1/2 bar fills that I copied from elsewhere in the song. I guess this is like my first "AI" creation? It's the same song as is posted for the November challenge.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/w4sy...ster.mp3?rlkey=cjewqpf4jjf6nfbr669vj8dk9&dl=0

 

[sdbrit68]

Based on @sdbrit68 and @Ted_Zeppelin reports, this sounds disapointing.
I have not had my head in this for a couple days...I'll have to dive in again and see if I can understand this thing.

I am not thrilled about having to work outside the DAW is a huge thing for me, they do ahve a send program that is suppossed to make it easier. It honesly catches me as it has a bunch of pre proggrammed midi loops and it just trys to figure out Tempo and toss it in with some pre proggramed vibes.

Where, even if all you do is create your own midi, you can control the feel of what you want, and now I figured out the tempo change thing in studio one, I can play a little slower and speed it up

 

[CaptainMoto]

At this point, I'm giving up on the idea that I can reproduce the automated drum track that LogicPro does
If some other solution pops up, I'll try to chase it down.

In the meantime, I plan to experiment with the Tempo Mapping in S1.

If you watch this video, I think you'll see that there's a way to get drums to match a free flowing tempo.
It does not provide the magic of creating a drum track but, with a few clicks you can make a drum track follow your tempo (or lack of it)

How to match Free-Tempo Multi Tracks to a fixed BPM in #StudioOne

Ever wondered how you can align free-tempo multitrack performances to match a steady click? Then this tutorial is for you._____________LEARN MORE ABOUT STUDI...

www.youtube.com

 

[PapaRaptor]

At this point, I'm giving up on the idea that I can reproduce the automated drum track that LogicPro does
If some other solution pops up, I'll try to chase it down.

In the meantime, I plan to experiment with the Tempo Mapping in S1.

If you watch this video, I think you'll see that there's a way to get drums to match a free flowing tempo.
It does not provide the magic of creating a drum track but, with a few clicks you can make a drum track follow your tempo (or lack of it)

How to match Free-Tempo Multi Tracks to a fixed BPM in #StudioOne

Ever wondered how you can align free-tempo multitrack performances to match a steady click? Then this tutorial is for you._____________LEARN MORE ABOUT STUDI...

www.youtube.com

Thanks for the link! That's the most complete explanation I've seen for using Melodyne. I had pretty much written it off as something that seemed to work for everyone else, but not me. I need to go play with that and see if it will work for my purposes. The only bugaboo I see on my application is that I'm usually working with composite audio and not individual instrument tracks, so getting Melodyne to recognize the beat might be beyond it's capabilities.

No worries. I've gotten pretty adept (and relatively fast) at manual tempo mapping.

Oddly, I already had that video bookmarked, but I don't remember having ever seen it before.

 

[Elwood]

I had pretty much written it off as something that seemed to work for everyone else, but not me

I have had that on again - off again relationship with Melodyne too. I get really excited about all the things it can do, and then I don't do my homework to make it work for me. Rats!
Still, this video seems to be getting you to do just what I am not after. I really do not want my playing to be shoehorned into a rigid time format sometimes.
If that was my goal, then playing along with the click track or following the drum track would be the logical place to start the project. And then using a method to "match free tempo recording to a fixed bpm" would be logical.
I have always been after a way to get the drummer to play along with what I have done. I may have it, I'll know more later. (I got sidetracked trying to get a "good" sound from my elects - so far no joy unless I use a real amp and make real noise. I'm after quiet outside the cans, and still sounding good to me.) Squirrel!!!

 

[sdbrit68]

I just got notice for Melodyne, I have the one step below top of the line, cant remember what it is called, but, I have an upgrade for $99 to the whole thing they are doing for black friday.

Even though I dont think I need studio, for $100, why not

 

[sdbrit68]

At this point, I'm giving up on the idea that I can reproduce the automated drum track that LogicPro does
If some other solution pops up, I'll try to chase it down.

In the meantime, I plan to experiment with the Tempo Mapping in S1.

If you watch this video, I think you'll see that there's a way to get drums to match a free flowing tempo.
It does not provide the magic of creating a drum track but, with a few clicks you can make a drum track follow your tempo (or lack of it)

How to match Free-Tempo Multi Tracks to a fixed BPM in #StudioOne

Ever wondered how you can align free-tempo multitrack performances to match a steady click? Then this tutorial is for you._____________LEARN MORE ABOUT STUDI...

www.youtube.com

I always love Gregors videos, I bet he would be a riot to have coffee with

 

[CaptainMoto]

I just got notice for Melodyne, I have the one step below top of the line, cant remember what it is called, but, I have an upgrade for $99 to the whole thing they are doing for black friday.

Even though I dont think I need studio, for $100, why not

I've got "assistant" that gives me all I need for now.

 

[CaptainMoto]

Still, this video seems to be getting you to do just what I am not after. I really do not want my playing to be shoehorned into a rigid time format sometimes.

This whole idea is not currently a top priority for me.
What kicked off this entire discussion was your use of LP Drummer.
I'm with you...I'd love to keep it simple and have the drummer follow me but, I don't use LP, so exploring options is where its at for me.

I've got plenty ways to follow a beat but having the beat follow me is step one, step two is getting a self generated drum track to follow me..........Ah, that's the rub.

Well, here's my thinking:
-I lay down a guitar track ( no click, no fixed tempo)
-I use that to have Ez drummer band mate create a drum track.
-I suspect that drum track will be at a fixed time and out of sync with my free form track.
-I used Melodyne to create Tempo Track that follows my free floating tempo
-I tell S1 to use that Tempo track for all tracks

If that works , the auto generated drum track will follow me.
Anyways.....that's my thought.

Maybe I'll grab EZ Drummer 3 and give it a whirl one of these days.

 

[Elwood]

If that works

keep us posted! If anyone can do it you can!!!

 

[BraylonJennings]

My perspective. You may not like being shoehorned into a time format (somewhere Griff is grimacing) but it is the only way to play with others. Your initial post was different though. It's about playing something free timed and then going back and adding an instrument, midi drums. IRL, it'd be like having a drummer come in and play after your track, which isn't very easy for real drummers. Logic seems like the simplest way of accomplishing it. There are some work around to accomplish it in Studio One with and without Melodyne. I've always avoided Melodyne like an ex-wife, not wishing to quantize or autotune anything I produced. But it is interesting being able to use it to get drums or other midi to synch to your playing.

 

[CaptainMoto]

My perspective. You may not like being shoehorned into a time format (somewhere Griff is grimacing) but it is the only way to play with others. Your initial post was different though. It's about playing something free timed and then going back and adding an instrument, midi drums. IRL, it'd be like having a drummer come in and play after your track, which isn't very easy for real drummers. Logic seems like the simplest way of accomplishing it. There are some work around to accomplish it in Studio One with and without Melodyne. I've always avoided Melodyne like an ex-wife, not wishing to quantize or autotune anything I produced. But it is interesting being able to use it to get drums or other midi to synch to your playing.

You're right!
Our supreme leader is likely to admonish such thoughts.
On the flip side, most of the music we grew up with used no click track and the band followed the drummer................often a bit wavering on his tempo.
I remeber reading somewhere that one thing that made the stones sound unique was that Charlie Watts followed Keith Richards.

Today's music production is often a combination of live and virtual instruments and to make that work, it all has to be at a fixed tempo.
I much prefer the organic sound/tempo of a live band.
Unfortunatly, us bedroom recording artists need the midi band backing us up.

​

 

[MarkDyson]

I’m smiling, reminded of the setting on the Beat Buddy pedal for a drunk drummer, and you can set the level of drunkenness.

 

[PapaRaptor]

The bass track was mine I sent to a stem......................to be completely fair to EZ drummer. Usually I get on my E-kit, then open Studio one, I have Ugritone where I can chose drum sounds from RIngo Starr to Bon Jovi to the sex pistols, something like 20 choices. Then I play small parts to create a loop, then combine my loops as I am NOT that good a drummer but I insist on playing all my own...............then I play the other instruments over the top

In this case I took a stem, placed it in EZ drummer and it came out with this, I made zero adjustments to the sound, just popped it into Studio one then put Ugritone drums as the instrument, and including download, less than 15 minutes, so it could probably be improved on.

I am going to try it over the next week on a new song and see how it works

I hadn't noticed your response. I hope you didn't take offense to my comment about the EZ drummer version being a hot mess.

To be really fair to EZ Drummer, (or in defense of it), that wasn't exactly a simple bass line you gave it. While most human drummers would have no problem sorting that out, it was too complex for the drum program to pick up. I'm not sure how you sync'ed the two at the start, but the bass line doesn't start on the same beat, i.e., Original bass line started on 1 and the EZ drummer version the bass line started on the & before 3.

The bass line was plenty strong and very consistent. On the EZ Drummer track it didn't sound as though EZ picked up on the right tempo, which made an out of sync bass and drum get even worse. Unfortunately, if the drums and bass aren't sync'ed, drums win, even when drums are wrong.

 

[sdbrit68]

I hadn't noticed your response. I hope you didn't take offense to my comment about the EZ drummer version being a hot mess.

To be really fair to EZ Drummer, (or in defense of it), that wasn't exactly a simple bass line you gave it. While most human drummers would have no problem sorting that out, it was too complex for the drum program to pick up. I'm not sure how you sync'ed the two at the start, but the bass line doesn't start on the same beat, i.e., Original bass line started on 1 and the EZ drummer version the bass line started on the & before 3.

The bass line was plenty strong and very consistent. On the EZ Drummer track it didn't sound as though EZ picked up on the right tempo, which made an out of sync bass and drum get even worse. Unfortunately, if the drums and bass aren't sync'ed, drums win, even when drums are wrong.

Oh god no, I never take offense........................have you heard me sing ?

I have to have thick skin for that. I took the free trial of EZ drummer, and have tried some others, I jsut really dont like any of them. I find what I can do on an E Drum, record it, then tweak in midi if I need feels better to me

 

[PapaRaptor]

I have to have thick skin for that. I took the free trial of EZ drummer, and have tried some others, I jsut really dont like any of them. I find what I can do on an E Drum, record it, then tweak in midi if I need feels better to me

I have no excuse. I have a full kit sitting here that I quite simply don't know how to play, but I can write MIDI like mad. I am looking for a book on drumming rudiments so I can translate the accents necessary for certain embellishments (hell, I don't even know the terminology), so I can write something in with a reasonable expectation it will sound close to what I hear in my head (besides the tinnitus). My oldest son is coming to visit over Christmas (it is his full kit sitting here eating up room which could be much better utilized for guitar storage) and pick his brains on one or more books that will teach me what I want to know.

 

[sdbrit68]

I have no excuse. I have a full kit sitting here that I quite simply don't know how to play, but I can write MIDI like mad. I am looking for a book on drumming rudiments so I can translate the accents necessary for certain embellishments (hell, I don't even know the terminology), so I can write something in with a reasonable expectation it will sound close to what I hear in my head (besides the tinnitus). My oldest son is coming to visit over Christmas (it is his full kit sitting here eating up room which could be much better utilized for guitar storage) and pick his brains on one or more books that will teach me what I want to know.

I found an E-Kit works so much better. I dont have to worry about the control. USB direct to Studio one, and it is so much easier to control the sticks, and, well, it feels so much less overwhelming

 

[sdbrit68]

So, I gave it one more try............it could be better if I spent more time on the timing, but, the idea was to use the AI to do the work, if I am gonna do the work anyways, I will do it myself. I also tried the different genre options even though this is the closest one "Genre" wise to my vision. I also should admit, I am very focused on click track useage and never record anything without a metronome. This did line up perfectly from EZ drummer into studio one, but, sounds very off

It's currently one for the wife I am writing called "Sit Next To you" as I promised I would write a piano song. So this is a snippet from my idea, my vision, and what I hear in my head

Sitnexttoyou.wav

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

This one is EZ drummer bandmate...............I used what I thought would be an easier me;ody for it to pick up, and maybe it is just my style of playing is not compatiable

Sitnexttoyouezdrummer.wav

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[PapaRaptor]

So, I gave it one more try............it could be better if I spent more time on the timing, but, the idea was to use the AI to do the work, if I am gonna do the work anyways, I will do it myself. I also tried the different genre options even though this is the closest one "Genre" wise to my vision. I also should admit, I am very focused on click track useage and never record anything without a metronome. This did line up perfectly from EZ drummer into studio one, but, sounds very off

It's currently one for the wife I am writing called "Sit Next To you" as I promised I would write a piano song. So this is a snippet from my idea, my vision, and what I hear in my head

Sitnexttoyou.wav

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

This one is EZ drummer bandmate...............I used what I thought would be an easier me;ody for it to pick up, and maybe it is just my style of playing is not compatiable

Sitnexttoyouezdrummer.wav

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

The EZ drummer version stays at a constant tempo, but (to my ear) the loop doesn't fit the melody. It sounds as though the loop syncs, but the the drums are about an 8th note late. Listen to your first track where I assume you manually placed the kick drum relative to the piano track and then listen to the EZ drummer. The first recording flows smoothly with the kick lining up perfectly on beat one of the piano pattern. The EZ drummer track sounds as though the drums are noticeably behind the first beat of the piano pattern.

Are these both MIDI tracks or is the piano an audio track? If the piano is an audio track you should be able to view it in the track lane and open the MIDI editor for the drums in the lower portion of the screen. You can link the playhead cursor to synchronize the cursor between the two windows. With that opened, it should be pretty obvious to you to see the transient for the piano key and then see the MIDI kick note on the piano roll. If your playhead is on the beginning of the piano transient, the MIDI note will appear (to the right) of the cursor. If you put the playhead cursor on the beginning of the MIDI kick note, the piano transient will be ahead of the cursor (to the left). If the piano audio is one contiguous event, you should be able to turn off Snap to Grid and click and drag the audio to the right until the piano transient starts at the same time as the kick drum note.

You can do the same thing by highlighting all notes in the MIDI editor and aligning them with the audio. However, there is a larger chance for error doing it this way. If you miss a few MIDI notes when you highlight, you'll have to chase them down. A single audio event is much easier to move.

 

[CaptainMoto]

@BraylonJennings
To my ear, that drum tracks fit well with your recording

@sdbrit68
First, the little bit of piano you;ve got there sounds good to me.
I think you've got the bones of a good song going there

That EZdrummer track stinks

I envy all you guys that can play drums
I don't even try to kid myself, I know I'm a crappy drummer so, I need all the help I can get.