Feeling like I'm starting all over.

[MikeS]

I've been playing chords and singing since the 60's so I have no problem with that, but trying to play nearly ANYTHING else while singing, is really tough.
I play pretty woman (Roy Orbison) in my show and it took for ever to get the main lick down well enough that I can play it and sing at the same time.

 

[Randy S]

I can get by with strumming and singing- not great but OK- as long as I stick with one strumming pattern.

But to try and play fingerstyle or a riff based rhythm and sing- forget it. Goes to He-- in a hurry!

 

[PCM]

I can get by with strumming and singing- not great but OK- as long as I stick with one strumming pattern.

But to try and play fingerstyle or a riff based rhythm and sing- forget it. Goes to He-- in a hurry!

It's interesting that we're all talking about this. It would actually qualify as an education module in a teaching certificate program at a higher learning institute. Rates of learning, learning limits and skill learning/retention get quite a bit of discussion in teaching programs according to our neighborhood university professor.

I think the "ease" or difficulty some people have learning, singing and performing with the guitar simply comes down to "guitar DNA" and "musicality" as GH talks about in many of his modules. Performing musicians aren't a large population relative to 7 billion on the planet. The skill is rare.

I will say that GH's online program is the best I have seen for "normal" people (no guitar DNA/musicality) to learn and enjoy the guitar in the "blues" genre...very modular, clear, and building-block based. Solid principles that, if followed, allow an individual to make the most of what they have. Although it is very PC to make statements about everybody created equal and "the sky's the limit," people aren't equal in brain power/learning ability and "limits" will be different based upon "guitar DNA" ability and brain power.

This program allows all participants to rise to the level they are capable of. It will be different for each. It has been a slow, flat learning curve for me based upon zero "musicality" and "guitar DNA." But it has been quite informative and very, very fun in all aspects.

 

[Paleo]

Sounds like you might be interested in the following book written by a cognitive psychologist with no discernable "guitar DNA" who decided to start studying music as an adult.

https://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Zero-..._1?keywords=guitar+zero&qid=1569420750&sr=8-1

And there just might be some other members of this very forum who are, or were, professional educators and know a little about "learning theory".

 

[PCM]

Sounds like you might be interested in the following book written by a cognitive psychologist with no discernable "guitar DNA" who decided to start studying music as an adult.

https://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Zero-..._1?keywords=guitar+zero&qid=1569420750&sr=8-1

And there just might be some other members of this very forum who are, or were, professional educators and know a little about "learning theory".

Cool...thanks for the links.

IMHO, what's unique about GH's approach is the modular, building-block principles that can lead most who stick with it to a degree of guitar accomplishment despite "DNA" or "musicality" issues.

I just read the synopsis of the book link and it appears the author subscribes to the notion that anybody can learn and that talent is NOT a myth. It seems that the author may be saying that anybody can learn and the rate and degree of learning will depend upon talent...don't know...have to read the book.

Just ordered it...should be a good read.

 

[Paleo]

I like to substitute the word "aptitude" for "talent" or "DNA".

I can recall having my "aptitudes" tested as far back as elementary school.

(And having them scored without regard for my actual "attitude" toward the testing.)

 

[PCM]

To all following this thread:

Just read a significant chunk of the book Mr. Paleo recommended..."Guitar Zero" by Gary Marcus.

Based upon the author's premises and empirical conclusions, there is hope for those "old, feeble, or uncoordinated."

#1 All humans are born with the same approximate number of brain cells, absent a defect.

#2 There is inherent "talent" at birth, but that perceived "talent" is based upon the genetic allocation of "gray matter" that everybody has (see #1) to all bodily functions. Some functions and structures get more or less depending upon genes. A higher, relative allocation in a specific area or structure suggests possible "talent."

#3 You can teach an "old dog" new tricks, but it requires smaller chunks of "new" material. Also, as an older person, you are essentially "reprogramming" your "gray matter" to align with the structures and functions required in guitar playing (hands, coordination, multi-tasking, etc.) It can be done but it is very practice, repetition-intensive and focusing on weak skills...not the guitar playing things that we might consider "fun" or easy. It takes longer than younger, birth "talent" (allocated "gray matter"), but can be done.

#4 Humans have no internal interval clock or rhythm except circadian recognition of light and dark. There isn't a clock anywhere on a human. Humans can be asked to count 12 seconds at a pace dictated by a metronome at 60BPM and can't repeat it accurately when the metronome is turned off. At 12 seconds they are ahead or behind in virtually every try with very rare exception. Interval rhythm is a "learned" function, not apparent at birth. Performing drummers generally have the most "refined" interval skill and even that is "off" to a certain degree, just not noticeable to the naked or untrained ear.

#5 The skills required to play the guitar fluently are quite "athletic" and "intellectual" in their own right (articulation, coordination, speed, imagination, etc.) and are equitable with those of a professional athlete, without the large muscle movement aspect.

#6 Keep practicing those things that are "weak," not necessarily "fun."

#7 Lastly, @Griff must have read this book because counting and rhythm are everywhere in all his programs from day one.

So...for all in forum-land, there may be rough patches and slow spots, but it is still fun as all get-out.

PCM

 

[Rad]

I’m off camping in the Sierras and just went back inside our little travel trailer, taking a break from guitar practice outside where it felt like it was time to sell my gear. Almost nothing went right. I’ve been playing for decades so I know I have times like this and ones where just about everything goes well.

So, it was nice to crack open the IPad and read the blurb about learning as we get older.

 

[Walt H]

To all following this thread:

Just read a significant chunk of the book Mr. Paleo recommended..."Guitar Zero" by Gary Marcus.


PCM

PCM - in terms of his learning/practice process, what technique(s) did he incorporate that you wish you had done early on in your learning or that you have decided to adopt.

walt

 

[PCM]

PCM - in terms of his learning/practice process, what technique(s) did he incorporate that you wish you had done early on in your learning or that you have decided to adopt.

walt

Based upon his conclusions about humans and their capabilities, I wish I had incorporated two primary focal points that I essentially ignored through ignorance as I was largely self-taught in the early 1960's...the first one being a more disciplined approach to accuracy and alternate picking, which in turn helps the second issue which is one's rhythmic capabilities and the ability to subdivide the beat at fairly rapid tempos. Accuracy and alt-picking greatly expands one's comfort zone when playing and doesn't unnecessarily restrict material due to tempo.

I subscribe to GH's position that your guitar "DNA" or aptitude will largely determine your initial preference between AP and slurring (hammering/pulling) success. The choice was unwitting and easy for me...slurring was much easier. So I slurred and completely ignored the more difficult task of accurate AP. I'll be 70 next year and attempting to improve the AP aspect at this point is a very slow, flat learning curve. I want to call it a "wall" but I refuse to be negative. In the early years, I practiced what was "easy" (slow blues, note "flurries," no-timing, mostly slurring) and should have practiced "weaknesses" as the author suggests. My excuse is minimal outside instruction.

The second is the interval rhythm and timing that all humans have to learn from birth. Never had much of it but would have learned quite a bit more had I counted, played/practiced and alternate picked from the start. All of GH's material emphasizes counting and playing simultaneously. Doing both helps with the faster tempo subdivision requirements and the serious multi-tasking needed to play and sing at the same time. Never did it in the beginning, manageable but still very difficult now.

The author did not specifically suggest anything related to "counting" per se, other than his necessity of understanding musical notation and time values in the music theory world. However, he was pretty convinced of his data and conclusions that indicate humans have no intervallic rhythm at birth. It must be learned. Counting and the subsequent "feel" is one of the learning components. Listening to music at a very early age is another big factor in the author's view.

PCM

 

[Jalapeno]

initial preference between AP and slurring

I think Griff's guitar DNA type is between Alternate Picking and Economy Picking. Not slurring.

Eric

 

[PCM]

I think Griff's guitar DNA type is between Alternate Picking and Economy Picking. Not slurring.

Eric

That may very well be.

I know he was talking about it in a AAP session a year or two ago. I thought it was hammering/pulling...have to check.

PCM

 

[Paleo]

I know he was talking about it in a AAP session a year or two ago. I thought it was hammering/pulling...have to check.

I think the very first "Technique Talk" from 5-8-18 will provide the answers you seek.

 

[Many Moons]

#1 All humans are born with the same approximate number of brain cells, absent a defect.

I guess too many brain farts blew all mine out.

 

[Rad]

Well, Griffs counting knocks it out of the park again for me. Along with learning some fun new stuff here I have also been going back over many of the things I have played for years and cleaning them up or improving them.

One song I dug out was Hot Rod Lincoln. I kept finding myself playing one simple rhythm chorus chord change awkwardly . Something was not right. I got through it each time and transitioned in time but it was awkward. I’m not talking Bill K’s fun single note line hook, that really plays itself. This was just a couple transition notes between two chords.

So, I counted and the first time through I found I kept adding an extra note transitioning to a particular chord. I dropped that one note and fixed a problem I had had for years in just minutes.

I’m soooo drinking this counting kool aid.

 

[Many Moons]

I’m soooo drinking this counting kool aid.

Pleased for ya bro!!!

 

[DavidLylis]

Oh, man I'm feeling like a brand new player.
Confession:
I've never counted (except when having a hard time with a particular passage in a solo. once I've figured out where it starts and which notes are on the down beat, I've stopped counting)

Working through the BGU Labs Challenge, I pieced together my solo, but decided to try counting it out loud while playing it.
This counting crap is HARD.
I'm sure I could memorize it, play it and it would sound fine without counting, but maybe not exactly as written (timing wise) so, if I don't keep at it I'll never get counting down.

Last night I discovered something that I have to share. (maybe I'm the last one to know). I found an app called Soundbrenner on my iPhone. It is a metronome that counts the beat, displays the beat number (1,2,3,4), lets you divide the beat into 1/8 notes, 16th notes, triplets, dotted quarter, 8th, and 16th notes, makes noise, flashes light, and any manner of settings you choose. I am a walk and chew gum kinda guy, so thinking about what I am trying to play, count, and know what measure I am on can be a challenge. Oh, and it is free.

 

[markherrick]

looked it up on the app store and it's avail. for android. I've downloaded it (free) and will be checking it out over next few days. Thanks for posting the info.

 

[WilliamEnright]

I knew a radio operator in the navy who could listen to high speed Morse code and transpose harpsichord sheet music and play it on an acoustic guitar all at the same time. I think he left to go back to his home planet eventually.

 

[Paleo]

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