Ebdim7

[DavidCayTex]

Yesterday during the Live session Griff stated that you can move the Ebdim7 up 3 frets and it is still Ebdim7 (inversion) and then move it up 3 more frets and again you have Ebdim7 (different inversion). And then keep going.
I think that is really cool. Just so happens a version of a song I’m working on (Frosty the Snowman) has an Ebdim7. Coincidence?

So my question is: Are there any other chords you can do the same thing or similar with? I haven’t found any yet.

 

[dvs]

The reason this works is that the notes of the dim7 chord are each spaced a minor third (three half-steps or three frets) apart, and the octave has 12 half-steps, and 12 is 3 x 4.

Mathematically you could also create a chord with three tones each four half-steps apart (major third) that you could move up four frets at a time and have an inversion of the same chord. That chord would be R-3-#5, which is an augmented chord.

Other choices would be 2 notes 6 half-steps apart, and 6 notes 2 half-steps apart, but those aren't really chords.

 

[DavidCayTex]

The reason this works is that the notes of the dim7 chord are each spaced a minor third (three half-steps or three frets) apart, and the octave has 12 half-steps, and 12 is 3 x 4.

Mathematically you could also create a chord with three tones each four half-steps apart (major third) that you could move up four frets at a time and have an inversion of the same chord. That chord would be R-3-#5, which is an augmented chord.

Other choices would be 2 notes 6 half-steps apart, and 6 notes 2 half-steps apart, but those aren't really chords.

Thanks DVS.

 

[ChrisGSP]

The other cool thing about those Diminished 7th chords is that they all have FOUR names - each of the chord tones can be considered the ROOT, because the intervals between the notes are symmetrical (all minor thirds).

So, your EbDim7 is also ADim7, CDim7 and F#Dim7.

 

[Paleo]

The b3 above should be considered Gb.

F# would be an augmented 2nd above Eb.

Gb is a m3 above Eb.

However we can use enharmonic equivalents.

The spelling of Ebdim7 would actually be Eb Gb Bbb Dbb.

While the spelling of F#dim7 is F# A C Eb.

 

[ChrisGSP]

@Paleo is absolutely right, and I stand corrected. But it's no wonder many people just don't "get" diminished chords.

I was taught that a Diminished chord resolves up a semitone (half-step). I suppose that's because the Diminished chord is the vii of the harmonised scale. But, since the Diminished chord has four roots, it can resolve up a semitone from any of those four notes. A really cool chord!!!!

 

[Paleo]

Hmmm! Here's something to ponder.

In what key/scale would Ebdim7 be a vii chord?

 

[ChrisGSP]

Hmmm! Here's something to ponder.

In what key/scale would Ebdim7 be a vii chord?

Good question. I think that would be the key in which Eb is the leading tone

 

[Paleo]

I think that would be the key in which Eb is the leading tone

And that would give us ........ the non-existent Fb Major scale.

Fb Gb Ab Bbb Cb Db Eb Fb

Even then, all 4 notes of the Ebdim7, regardless how you spell it, don't occur in the scale.

The dim7 chord doesn't occur "naturally" on any chord in a Major scale, while mb5 and m7b5 are built on the leading tone.

Even if we considered the Eb as D#, the leading tone of E Major, all the notes of D#dim7 (D# F# A C) don't occur in E Major.

If you've got a D#, C would also have a #.

And F# A C Eb from above with both a sharp and a flat?

Yes, this is how I like to spend my time.

And thanks for playing along.

 

[ChrisGSP]

And thanks for playing along.

Music theory is GOOD FUN!! There are so many subtleties and anomalies, and interesting bits and pieces to explore.

I'm presently working on a piece that has a key signature for C Major. I'll just read through it and type in the accidentals -

Ab, Gb, Db, Bb, Eb, Bnatural (same bar as the Bb), G#, F#, D#, Db, Gb. And the last note is A - whew, it's hard work.

 

[Paleo]

I'd definitely rely on the tab for that one.

 

[ChrisGSP]

I need to apologise for claiming that the Diminished chord is the vii of the scale - of course it's the m7b5 half-diminished .... d'oh!!!