DAW Tempo Mapping

KurtSimmons3157

Blues Newbie
I've been using Cubase and I'm sure this question has been asked before.
How do you sync the backing tracks tempo to the DAW??
 

PapaRaptor

Father Vyvian O'Blivion
Staff member
I've been using Cubase and I'm sure this question has been asked before.
How do you sync the backing tracks tempo to the DAW??
Which version of Cubase are you using? If memory serves me, tempo detection in Cubase is only available in the Pro version.
If you're looking to set your tempo to the same as an unknown tempo backing track, I think the only way to do this is to use the tap tempo function in Cubase Elements or Cubase AI. I'll admit that I haven't had a new copy of Cubase since 10.5, but I did a bit of Googling and it appears that according to Steinberg, tempo detection is a Pro only feature.
 
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KurtSimmons3157

Blues Newbie
Which version of Cubase are you using? If memory serves me, tempo detection in Cubase is only available in the Pro version.
If you're looking to set your tempo to the same as an unknown tempo backing track, I think the only way to do this is to use the tap tempo function in Cubased Elements or Cubase AI. I'll admit that I haven't had a new copy of Cubase since 10.5, but I did a bit of Googling and it appears that according to Steinberg, tempo detection is a Pro only feature.
Pro 12...I've tried changing the tempo, by changing #s...100..101..102..etc...but not quite right (the backing tracks within the lessons). I want to record myself along with the tracks & be able to track my timing...thx
 

PapaRaptor

Father Vyvian O'Blivion
Staff member
Pro 12...I've tried changing the tempo, by changing #s...100..101..102..etc...but not quite right (the backing tracks within the lessons). I want to record myself along with the tracks & be able to track my timing...thx
Check this video. I don't have the software to confirm it.
If the original backing track was recorded against a click track, this should get you there.
If it's a freeform track where the tempo vaies a bit, you're looking at a bit more work.
 

KurtSimmons3157

Blues Newbie
Check this video. I don't have the software to confirm it.
If the original backing track was recorded against a click track, this should get you there.
If it's a freeform track where the tempo vaies a bit, you're looking at a bit more work.
Thx Papa...I checked out that vid & a couple others...Beat Detector & Tempo Detector...looks like that will get me there.
Tempo Detector even more so, because once you have used it...then you can change tempo of track/song...will try it out tomorrow...
 

PapaRaptor

Father Vyvian O'Blivion
Staff member
I was curious about how Cubase did it as well. I only have Cubase Elements and the last upgrade I did was to 10.5.
The DAW I now use has a couple methods of supposed "tempo mapping." I've watched probably a dozen videos on it and have come to the conclusion that most beat detection routines are pretty sketchy with all but the most simple of recorded samples.

If I'm trying to map a tempo that I know was recorded against a click track, I use the tap tempo and trial-and-error to get it right. That's usually just a couple minutes. But I do a lot of tunes where I'm covering old (i.e., 60's and 70's) material that was done before a click track. Rather than a backing track, I'm using an original recording as a scratch track. Tempo mapping those can be quite a task.

One in particular that I did a year or two ago was Creedence Clearwater Revival's cover of Susie Q. It's a long tune to begin with and the tempo from beginning to end is all over the place. The final fade out on the song is about 10 bpm faster than the beginning. In working with it in the DAW I use (Studio One), the metaphor for this is to manually move the beats in the tempo line to match the song. The software calculates the tempo. When you're done, you have something onscreen like this:
SusieQ-tempo-Map.jpg

Once you have that done there are two ways to proceed.
1. You can bounce the recording so the tempo information is embedded in the song. It doesn't affect the tempo of the original tune. This can be handy if you're recording one or more MIDI tracks (drums, keys, etc.) and want to keep the original tempo changes intact. MIDI will actually follow the tempo line. This can be handy in keeping the feel of the original song. If you enable the metronome (click track) the metronome will follow the tempo graph and speed up or slow down as the tempo line increases or decreases.

2. You can also take the bounced recording (save it as a new file or project) and then flatline the tempo to a constant bpm setting. When this is done, the original track is processed to play at a constant tempo.

The method you choose will depend on how dramatically they affect the feel of the song.

Just FYI, the original track for this song ran about 8:30. It took me about two hours to manually map the entire tune.
 

KurtSimmons3157

Blues Newbie
Thx Papa...I checked out that vid & a couple others...Beat Detector & Tempo Detector...looks like that will get me there.
Tempo Detector even more so, because once you have used it...then you can change tempo of track/song...will try it out tomorrow...
Thx again....I wasn't sure what you had done, but see it now.....(made a new thread..easier for others to follow/find)
 

KurtSimmons3157

Blues Newbie
I was curious about how Cubase did it as well. I only have Cubase Elements and the last upgrade I did was to 10.5.
The DAW I now use has a couple methods of supposed "tempo mapping." I've watched probably a dozen videos on it and have come to the conclusion that most beat detection routines are pretty sketchy with all but the most simple of recorded samples.

If I'm trying to map a tempo that I know was recorded against a click track, I use the tap tempo and trial-and-error to get it right. That's usually just a couple minutes. But I do a lot of tunes where I'm covering old (i.e., 60's and 70's) material that was done before a click track. Rather than a backing track, I'm using an original recording as a scratch track. Tempo mapping those can be quite a task.

One in particular that I did a year or two ago was Creedence Clearwater Revival's cover of Susie Q. It's a long tune to begin with and the tempo from beginning to end is all over the place. The final fade out on the song is about 10 bpm faster than the beginning. In working with it in the DAW I use (Studio One), the metaphor for this is to manually move the beats in the tempo line to match the song. The software calculates the tempo. When you're done, you have something onscreen like this:
View attachment 16974

Once you have that done there are two ways to proceed.
1. You can bounce the recording so the tempo information is embedded in the song. It doesn't affect the tempo of the original tune. This can be handy if you're recording one or more MIDI tracks (drums, keys, etc.) and want to keep the original tempo changes intact. MIDI will actually follow the tempo line. This can be handy in keeping the feel of the original song. If you enable the metronome (click track) the metronome will follow the tempo graph and speed up or slow down as the tempo line increases or decreases.

2. You can also take the bounced recording (save it as a new file or project) and then flatline the tempo to a constant bpm setting. When this is done, the original track is processed to play at a constant tempo.

The method you choose will depend on how dramatically they affect the feel of the song.

Just FYI, the original track for this song ran about 8:30. It took me about two hours to manually map the entire tune.
I was turned on to Cubase 6+ years ago, starting with Elements, Artist then Pro...not that I need it & it's quite complex, tho most of us won't use it all. I found a youtube site One Man and His Songs & he has loads of tutorials, about Cubase, Groove Agent, Halion and much more. In the Tutorials there are over 20 vids for each section...his name is Anthony Chisnall...from Britain....he breaks things down...slowly...(not fast talk) & gets quite in depth for each subject.

https://youtube.com/c/OneManAndHisSongs
 

PapaRaptor

Father Vyvian O'Blivion
Staff member
I was turned on to Cubase 6+ years ago, starting with Elements, Artist then Pro...not that I need it & it's quite complex, tho most of us won't use it all. I found a youtube site One Man and His Songs & he has loads of tutorials, about Cubase, Groove Agent, Halion and much more. In the Tutorials there are over 20 vids for each section...his name is Anthony Chisnall...from Britain....he breaks things down...slowly...(not fast talk) & gets quite in depth for each subject.

https://youtube.com/c/OneManAndHisSongs
When I used Cubase, I subscribed to this channel:
You might check it out. Chris Selim definitely knows his way around Cubase.
Unfortunately, in going through his tutorials I discovered several things I wanted to do in Cubase required upgrading to Pro. At the time funds were short and I found a much less expensive upgrade path to Studio One. I had no gripes about Cubase at all and used it for several years.
 

KurtSimmons3157

Blues Newbie
When I used Cubase, I subscribed to this channel:
You might check it out. Chris Selim definitely knows his way around Cubase.
Unfortunately, in going through his tutorials I discovered several things I wanted to do in Cubase required upgrading to Pro. At the time funds were short and I found a much less expensive upgrade path to Studio One. I had no gripes about Cubase at all and used it for several years.
thx for the help...the studio guy who first turned me on to Cubase, now has Pro Tools, as he has a local
studio. I've stuck with Cubase, slowly upgraded it & am still trying to learn.

Besides the threads in here, is there a direct chat??
 

PapaRaptor

Father Vyvian O'Blivion
Staff member
thx for the help...the studio guy who first turned me on to Cubase, now has Pro Tools, as he has a local
studio. I've stuck with Cubase, slowly upgraded it & am still trying to learn.

Besides the threads in here, is there a direct chat??

My two cents worth... Stay with Cubase.

No, the forum doesn't currently offer a real time chat. But there is no shortage of other live chat options.
 

KurtSimmons3157

Blues Newbie
My two cents worth... Stay with Cubase.

No, the forum doesn't currently offer a real time chat. But there is no shortage of other live chat options.
ok...I didn't think so...still getting used to the forum & all the different threads and sub threads.
As most must do...I purchased Blues Unleashed, Acoustic Blues & a couple others, then went
for the All Access...it's a bit overwhelming...so much..but trying to focus on the main course &
working on my timing...1&uh 2&uh....lol...
 

PapaRaptor

Father Vyvian O'Blivion
Staff member
ok...I didn't think so...still getting used to the forum & all the different threads and sub threads.
As most must do...I purchased Blues Unleashed, Acoustic Blues & a couple others, then went
for the All Access...it's a bit overwhelming...so much..but trying to focus on the main course &
working on my timing...1&uh 2&uh....lol...
Been there...
I bought almost every course as Griff brought them out. When he started the AAP, I jumped on that the first month.
I've been working on timing for over a decade and on the tough parts, I still count out loud.
 

KurtSimmons3157

Blues Newbie
Been there...
I bought almost every course as Griff brought them out. When he started the AAP, I jumped on that the first month.
I've been working on timing for over a decade and on the tough parts, I still count out loud.
Tempo detection did the trick....I had to cut off Griff's count-in measure & move the track to the beginning.
Program Menu-Clicked Tempo Detection & analyze. This put it in 1/4 time with one beat per measure,
I changed the time signature from 1/4 to 4/4 and it locked right into 4 beats per measure.
I then added the 1234 count measure back in.
 
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