Counting while soloing question

[LarryTannery]

If you have a jam track for a 12 bar blues, but don’t hear the cord changes, how can you get back on track when playing a solo if you have not memorized each lick and what measure you will use it in? I get lost playing solo notes for 24 bars sometimes and don’t know what measure I am playing over if I cant hear the changes in the backround. Do I need to count 1&a, 2&a, 3&a, 4&a, 2&a, 2&a, 3&a 4&a, 3&a, 2&a 3&a 4&a ect through all 24 measures?

 

[PapaRaptor]

The problem is really that you aren't hearing the chord changes and the question is 'why not?' Is the volume too low on your backing track or are you paying so much attention to your soloing that you aren't listening for the changes?
If the volume is too low, simply turn it up so you can hear the changes. If it's because you're concentrating so much on the solo, that you aren't hearing the changes, then you should stop and spend a day or two just listening to and counting along with one or more backing tracks, so you can memorize where the changes take place. If you need to count out loud from start to finish in order to stay on beat with the backing track, then do so until you no longer need to. Also, as Griff mentions frequently, know where your lick starts and ends.

A basic 12 bar covers the same ground every time. The only real variables are if it's a quick change and how the turn around is structured. If you are getting lost in a solo, it is either due to a mistake you made, which puts you off your pattern or it is because you are not playing in time with the backing track. If you don't hear the changes, stop playing and listen to the backing track until you hear a change. In a straight 12 bar, the I chord at the beginning is 16 beats (4 bars). In the rest of the progression, you are never more than 2 measures (8 beats) from a change.

 

[brent]

Why can't you hear the changes? Is the backing track volume too low? Or are you having trouble differentiating between the chord changes? if you're problem is the former, simply turn it up. If it's the latter, I suggest listening to it over and over again in your headphones, while not doing anything else except paying attention to first the drums only. Try to memorize the beat to the point that you can almost imagine yourself playing it. Then do the same for the bass. Then the rhythm guitar. Then go back and try it again.

Edit* Looks paparaptor beat me to it.

 

[tommytubetone]

Can you hear the bass player in the background? He will give away the changes by hitting the root note of the new chord. As far as counting, figure out which time figure fits by listening to it. Listen for 1+2+3 etc. or 1+a2+a3+a, or 1e+a2e+a etc. Once you have that established, count out loud and use your fingers to figure out if it's a 12 bar blues or 8 bar blues or whatever. You did mention it was a 12 bar blues, but for a song you're not sure about this would help. Hope this helps a little.

 

[LarryTannery]

Thanks for the replys. There is no rhythm guitar. Only drums and bass on the track I am trying to play with. I will really concentrate on the bass to hear the changes. I hear the snare no problem. It's which measure I am on that is the problem. Following the bass should help a lot. I wasn't hearing it before while playing my solo notes.

 

[brent]

Even the drummer will often times give away the chord changes.

 

[OG_Blues]

Thanks for the replys. There is no rhythm guitar. Only drums and bass on the track I am trying to play with. I will really concentrate on the bass to hear the changes. I hear the snare no problem. It's which measure I am on that is the problem. Following the bass should help a lot. I wasn't hearing it before while playing my solo notes.

That is what I was suspecting as soon as I read the OP.
IMO - First mistake we all seem to make is one of perspective.
Why do we always speak about the lead player "following" the chord changes in a standard 12 bar blues when we already KNOW what they are going to be? The lead player should be anticipating the changes in order to then play over them. That doesn't mean play ahead of the changes, it means just knowing when the change is going to happen in order to plan ahead accordingly.
Also, I have heard backing tracks where the comping is so sparse and so far after the beat that the chord changes are on, it can be difficult to hear the changes.
I would suggest a different solution.
Get Griff's "Chord By Chord Blues Soloing" course. This course is fundamentally based on the chord changes, which will force the 12 bar blues changes firmly in your mind. You will "hear" them even if they are not there. And it will give you an additional and very useful approach to complement your existing soloing methods and skills. The kind that if you are playing licks and get lost for whatever reason, you can fall back to the chord arpeggios and be instantly back in the game playing something that fits in with the band.
IMO, this course is Griff's most underrated / underused course, and should be highly encouraged study material early on in ones learning the blues.

 

[Rancid Rumpboogie]

The problem is really that you aren't hearing the chord changes and the question is 'why not?' Is the volume too low on your backing track or are you paying so much attention to your soloing that you aren't listening for the changes?
If the volume is too low, simply turn it up so you can hear the changes. If it's because you're concentrating so much on the solo, that you aren't hearing the changes, then you should stop and spend a day or two just listening to and counting along with one or more backing tracks, so you can memorize where the changes take place. If you need to count out loud from start to finish in order to stay on beat with the backing track, then do so until you no longer need to. Also, as Griff mentions frequently, know where your lick starts and ends.

A basic 12 bar covers the same ground every time. The only real variables are if it's a quick change and how the turn around is structured. If you are getting lost in a solo, it is either due to a mistake you made, which puts you off your pattern or it is because you are not playing in time with the backing track. If you don't hear the changes, stop playing and listen to the backing track until you hear a change. In a straight 12 bar, the I chord at the beginning is 16 beats (4 bars). In the rest of the progression, you are never more than 2 measures (8 beats) from a change.

Papa done said it all.

 

[Thatman]

[QUOTE="
Get Griff's "Chord By Chord Blues Soloing" course. This course is fundamentally based on the chord changes, which will force the 12 bar blues changes firmly in your mind. You will "hear" them even if they are not there. And it will give you an additional and very useful approach to complement your existing soloing methods and skills. The kind that if you are playing licks and get lost for whatever reason, you can fall back to the chord arpeggios and be instantly back in the game playing something that fits in with the band.
IMO, this course is Griff's most underrated / underused course, and should be highly encouraged study material early on in ones learning the blues.[/QUOTE]

Totally agree.

 

[Griff]

A story that might help...

When I studied jazz in college, it was new to me, and it was hard for me to solo because I had to think about what the chords were and where I was in the form.

20 years later, most of those tunes seem simple and I wouldn't think twice about soloing over "rhythm changes" or a "jazz blues" because I know those sets of changes and I no longer have to think about them. Other standards like "Girl From Ipanema," or "Satin Doll" fall into that category because I've now played them dozens, if not hundreds of times.

If you are new to the guitar, or new to the blues, the 12 bar form is not going to come naturally - yet. It will, but it will take some time.

1 - Listen to standard blues, a lot. If you tend to listen more to blues/rock or classic rock, the blues form won't be present as often.
2 - practice playing good old "blues in E" and count the measures as you go. The more you do it, the more you'll "just know."
3 - Play along with standard blues jam tracks, but don't solo, play chords for now.

The more you play chords along with the 12 bar blues, the more it will be something you "own" and you won't have to think about.

 

[PapaRaptor]

@LarryTannery, you might be interested in looking at this video from Griff.

 

[dvs]

@LarryTannery, you might be interested in looking at this video from Griff.

Nice video, says it was streamed just a couple of hours ago - is this an All Access Pass session?

 

[PapaRaptor]

Nice video, says it was streamed just a couple of hours ago - is this an All Access Pass session?

No, Griff is experimenting with live streams on FB and Youtube. I didn't see it live, either. I don't think he has established a schedule for it as of yet.

 

[dvs]

@Griff How might an interested BGU'er find out that one of these ad-hoc streaming lessons is happening?

 

[Griff]

As papa mentioned, there's no set schedule... I'm having some fun with it. Today I actually shot out a little "warning" on facebook about 10 minutes ahead of time, but that's really all there is. No two days are the same for me so keeping to a schedule ain't gonna happen.

It kind of boils down to this... I like doing my little "extras" that I send out on the blog and stuff, and I REALLY like doing the live videos with the AAP folks. So I thought I'd try and merge the two things.

If I'm going to make a video anyway, might as well do it in front of live people in case I mess something up and more explanation is needed. Often times they'll be simple, but some might be more complex and have more to them.

In most cases I'll also post them up on the blog for those that don't have FB or YT or miss them, or just prefer to watch later at their leisure.

The world's a changing, and email deliverability just ain't what it used to be. I hear from people all the time that their email provider is not delivering my emails or they are landing in spam folders or whatever - but those people can watch stuff all day long on YT or FB without having to wonder if it's going to show up.

I certainly don't intend to abandon email, by any stretch. And my hope is that, with a lot of the new laws and restrictions coming into place, that the spammers will actually go away so that I can get through to people who want to hear from me... but I'm not gonna hold my breath for that.

 

[Elio]

Griff beat me to it but I was going to also suggest simply playing chords along to the backing track in order to get the feel of the chord pattern more ingrained. If you really want to get fancy, you can record and add your own rhythm guitar track to it.