Counting in the blues

[JoeBalkovics]

Hi im Joe
Can any one explain or point me to a written lesson how the counting is established on the start of a blues song .
I ve heard many times , it does not start on the 1st beat. Thats an important thing.

I recall on a S R V lesson of mary, Griff said he could not play it starting on the 1st beat.
He worked it out and said it started on a particuler beat further in.

How do you work out that point
Thx Joe

 

[PapaBear]

This is where music and math go hand in hand, start by figuring out the count of the song, is it straight time, shuffle, swing or waltz..etc, then count along Out Loud, once you get the different counts internalized it'll be easier to recognize them, in the example you give above Griff is talking about starting a "lick" most likely and that particular and most blues licks or leads don't start on the One of the count, if you're comping the rhythm you may or may not, but if your doing any of the Core courses you won't be lacking in lessons on counting, it's pretty much at the center of everything Griff does in them.

 

[Paleo]

Can any one explain or point me to a written lesson how the counting is established on the start of a blues song .
I ve heard many times , it does not start on the 1st beat. Thats an important thing.

It's not the counting of the song that doesn't start on the 1st beat, it's your playing (solos and licks) that usually doesn't start on 1.

You always count the first beat of a song or measure, but may not start to play on it.



You're actually combining several questions:

How to establish the beat, how to count it in and when to start playing.

Griff covers counting and "Getting Started" in many of his courses.

("How To Build Blues Songs", for example.)



You count all the beats just as you "normally" would for a given feel, but let beat 1 "go by" before you, as the lead, start a lick.

The band is still playing on beat 1, you're not.

Counting starts on the first beat, playing comes after.



What you've heard many times is don't start playing on 1, not that you don't start counting on 1.

After all, you have to count beat 1 in order to not play on it.


A couple of Griff's videos:

http://bluesguitarunleashed.com/blog/how-to-start-any-blues-solo/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlOguTIycFk

 

[Elio]

I think I know which video you are referring to and all of the answers above pretty much address it. I remember seeing a video a few years ago with Steve Travato explaining the historical context behind starting on beat 2 for blues licks. It had to do with the call and response pattern of work songs that synchronized with the various motions of chopping, shoveling, hammering railroad ties, etc.

 

[Paleo]

I remember seeing a video a few years ago with Steve Travato explaining the historical context...

He also explains this in his "Voodoo Blues" intro video, starting @ 4:50.

 

[JoeBalkovics]

It's not the counting of the song that doesn't start on the 1st beat, it's your playing (solos and licks) that usually doesn't start on 1.

You always count the first beat of a song or measure, but may not start to play on it.



You're actually combining several questions:

How to establish the beat, how to count it in and when to start playing.

Griff covers counting and "Getting Started" in many of his courses.

("How To Build Blues Songs", for example.)



You count all the beats just as you "normally" would for a given feel, but let beat 1 "go by" before you, as the lead, start a lick.

The band is still playing on beat 1, you're not.

Counting starts on the first beat, playing comes after.



What you've heard many times is don't start playing on 1, not that you don't start counting on 1.

After all, you have to count beat 1 in order to not play on it.


A couple of Griff's videos:

http://bluesguitarunleashed.com/blog/how-to-start-any-blues-solo/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlOguTIycFk

Thx Paleo will check these sites
Sorry about confusion it was about starting of song i was thinking about,
I solo to relax. Looking at tabs of lessons from griff or others ,
Couldnt work out the math why you start playing at a certain beat when you do.
Thx Jpe

 

[JoeBalkovics]

I think I know which video you are referring to and all of the answers above pretty much address it. I remember seeing a video a few years ago with Steve Travato explaining the historical context behind starting on beat 2 for blues licks. It had to do with the call and response pattern of work songs that synchronized with the various motions of chopping, shoveling, hammering railroad ties, etc.

Thx Elio
Appreciate history too
Joe

 

[Elio]

He also explains this in his "Voodoo Blues" intro video, starting @ 4:50.

That's the one!

 

[JoeBalkovics]

Hi
Today griff put on a lesson about this ,
Not starting on beat 1 he offered half a beat either side of beat 1 start
Can this same tab work any where else in bar ( except beat 1 ) or ie and or a of beat 3 or 4 .
Is there a rule
In his srv mary lesson its some thing like 3rd or 4th count of 3rd beat ,(approx)
Thx Joe

 

[Paleo]

He discussed not starting that particular lick (or any other) on beat 1 and demonstrated it a half beat later.

Will that same lick work starting elsewhere?

You might want to try it out for yourself in other places and see if it works.

 

[JoeBalkovics]

A while bfore i can
R u saying it does,nt matter where apart from b1?
Thx Joe

 

[Elio]

A while bfore i can
R u saying it does,nt matter where apart from b1?
Thx Joe

At that point I think it depends more on the specific lick and where it will end. For example, if starting on a later beat causes it to end after the chord change, it may or may not work.

 

[Paleo]

R u saying it does,nt matter where apart from b1?

What will matter is where you try the lick in a progression, what comes before it and what will follow it.

If you really want to dive into this, Griff's course "How To Improvise Blues Solos" is a "workshop" in trying out the same licks in different positions in a blues progression and modifying them so they will "work".

One possible modification being starting a lick on different beats or their subdivisions.

 

[MikeS]

Hi
Today griff put on a lesson about this ,
Not starting on beat 1 he offered half a beat either side of beat 1 start
Can this same tab work any where else in bar ( except beat 1 ) or ie and or a of beat 3 or 4 .
Is there a rule
In his srv mary lesson its some thing like 3rd or 4th count of 3rd beat ,(approx)
Thx Joe

Yes, it CAN work on other beats, but you may have to adjust some things to make them fit.