Civil Discourse

[OG_Blues]

for your consideration and thoughtful reflection........very succinctly put IMO.

"Kenneth J. Gergen describes civil discourse as "the language of dispassionate objectivity", and suggests that it requires respect of the other participants, such as the reader. It neither diminishes the other's moral worth, nor questions their good judgment; it avoids hostility, direct antagonism, or excessive persuasion; it requires modesty and an appreciation for the other participant's experiences."

Musicians, and guitarists in particular, seem prone to very strong opinions about a variety of topics related to their passion. Straying away from the principles stated by Gergen quickly leads to discourse that becomes counter productive.

When posting opinions or relating one's experiences, there are two important aspects.
1. Content
2. Presentation
These should be carefully considered when authoring, and evaluated independently when reading.
Sometimes I see posts where I am largely or totally in agreement with the content, but just cringe at the presentation.
Sometimes the opposite is true.
When the audience has a wide and varied range of experience, as well as use cases or intended purpose for playing guitar or being involved in anything related to guitar, this all becomes increasingly important.

We have all probably gone off the rails a bit from time to time, and could use a reminder that for the vast majority of us, this is a hobby that is meant to be pleasurable, and this forum is generally one of the best there is to promote and encourage our love for the instrument and the blues in particular.

We should all be careful to keep it that way.

 

[tommytubetone]

Kenneth J. Gergen nailed it.

 

[Shodai]

Here, here!

 

[MarkDyson]

Ra-men!

 

[Elio]

for your consideration and thoughtful reflection........very succinctly put IMO.

"Kenneth J. Gergen describes civil discourse as "the language of dispassionate objectivity", and suggests that it requires respect of the other participants, such as the reader. It neither diminishes the other's moral worth, nor questions their good judgment; it avoids hostility, direct antagonism, or excessive persuasion; it requires modesty and an appreciation for the other participant's experiences."

Musicians, and guitarists in particular, seem prone to very strong opinions about a variety of topics related to their passion. Straying away from the principles stated by Gergen quickly leads to discourse that becomes counter productive.

When posting opinions or relating one's experiences, there are two important aspects.
1. Content
2. Presentation
These should be carefully considered when authoring, and evaluated independently when reading.
Sometimes I see posts where I am largely or totally in agreement with the content, but just cringe at the presentation.
Sometimes the opposite is true.
When the audience has a wide and varied range of experience, as well as use cases or intended purpose for playing guitar or being involved in anything related to guitar, this all becomes increasingly important.

We have all probably gone off the rails a bit from time to time, and could use a reminder that for the vast majority of us, this is a hobby that is meant to be pleasurable, and this forum is generally one of the best there is to promote and encourage our love for the instrument and the blues in particular.

We should all be careful to keep it that way.

Well said!

 

[Vinslom Bardy]

This is quite well-stated. Unfortunately, it's my own opinion that civil discourse is quite dead in this nation, driven into the dirt primarily by political dung-flinging, cable "news" outlets and (anti) social media. Psychology has clearly defined the many ways in which we seek to have our personal biases confirmed, and the powers-that-be have done a masterful job of pushing all the right buttons to keep us at each other's throats for their own political or monetary gain.

And while my comments were primarily focused on the current political situation, our lack of civility has become so normalized that everyday interactions on non-controversial topics such as music are often cause for "outrage".

Makes me wanna go live high in the mountains with nothing but an acoustic guitar and a half-dozen dogs...

 

[CaptainMoto]

This is quite well-stated. Unfortunately, it's my own opinion that civil discourse is quite dead in this nation, driven into the dirt primarily by political dung-flinging, cable "news" outlets and (anti) social media. Psychology has clearly defined the many ways in which we seek to have our personal biases confirmed, and the powers-that-be have done a masterful job of pushing all the right buttons to keep us at each other's throats for their own political or monetary gain.

And while my comments were primarily focused on the current political situation, our lack of civility has become so normalized that everyday interactions on non-controversial topics such as music are often cause for "outrage".

Makes me wanna go live high in the mountains with nothing but an acoustic guitar and a half-dozen dogs...

Ha......
I've considered becoming a sheep herder myself.

 

[OG_Blues]

This is quite well-stated. Unfortunately, it's my own opinion that civil discourse is quite dead in this nation, driven into the dirt primarily by political dung-flinging, cable "news" outlets and (anti) social media. Psychology has clearly defined the many ways in which we seek to have our personal biases confirmed, and the powers-that-be have done a masterful job of pushing all the right buttons to keep us at each other's throats for their own political or monetary gain.

And while my comments were primarily focused on the current political situation, our lack of civility has become so normalized that everyday interactions on non-controversial topics such as music are often cause for "outrage".

Makes me wanna go live high in the mountains with nothing but an acoustic guitar and a half-dozen dogs...

I couldn't agree more. Trying to keep this generic, i.e. a-political, but in today's world, that's become hard to do.
Between the snowflakes that claim anything and everything is offensive to them, and those who claim any attempt at discussion of any topic is passive aggressive, I have just about given up.
But if we don't talk about returning to civil discourse and promote it, it will never happen!!!

BTW, (CaptainMoto) we raised sheep on the farm when I was a kid. They are kind of a PITA except that they will eat anything you want to get rid of. Like giant Canadian thistles and stinging nettles - you'd think they considered them candy. It's much better these days to raise alpacas.
The initial cost can be high, but there are some bargains to be had. Their fleece is much nicer that sheep's wool and brings a better price.
They are generally friendlier animals as well, but piss one off and it will spit up a vile smelling,nasty, slimy storm at you!

 

[PapaRaptor]

but piss one off and it will spit up a vile smelling,nasty, slimy storm at you!

I've been accused of doing that from time to time!

 

[CaptainMoto]

My use of the phase "sheep herder" should be viewed as a singular reference as apposed to a flock.
Just me, one sheep, open sky, no people and comfy yurt.
Of course, I'll want that just on the edge of town, so I can still have all the fun stuff and only see people when required.

 

[snarf]

People in particular, seem prone to very strong opinions about a variety of topics related to their passion and, especially when online, will feign innocence when they have offended others with their strongly worded opinions and vehemently correct anyone who dares to disagree with them no matter whether the subject at hand is judged objectively or is a totally subjective discussion.

There. Fixed that for you. Oh wait. Did I just...??

The relative anonymity of the world wide interwebs has helped to make us all jerks that carry chips on our shoulders if we're not careful.

xkcd got it right many moons ago...except that it goes so far beyond the internet these days.

 

[MarkDyson]

 

[Vinslom Bardy]

Between the snowflakes that claim anything and everything is offensive to them, and those who claim any attempt at discussion of any topic is passive aggressive, I have just about given up.

I'm currently grappling with the irony of your choice of words when juxtaposed with the content of your original post.

I'm going to be VEEEERY careful here and simply point out that my own futile efforts to effectively communicate with others were due more to my own lack of empathy and communication skills as well as my choice of using horrendously inappropriate mediums like Facebook in which to attempt to communicate. When we speak, we should first seek to be understood rather than simply to be heard. When we listen, it should be to learn rather than to respond.

The civil discourse revolution of which Mr Gergen speaks won't happen on the internet.

Cheers,
VB

 

[CaptainMoto]

Hmm,
If I only had nerf to herd.

 

[OG_Blues]

I'm currently grappling with the irony of your choice of words when juxtaposed with the content of your original post.

I'm going to be VEEEERY careful here and simply point out that my own futile efforts to effectively communicate with others were due more to my own lack of empathy and communication skills as well as my choice of using horrendously inappropriate mediums like Facebook in which to attempt to communicate. When we speak, we should first seek to be understood rather than simply to be heard. When we listen, it should be to learn rather than to respond.

The civil discourse revolution of which Mr Gergen speaks won't happen on the internet.

Cheers,
VB

I could easily interpret which part of this you find ironical in 2 or 3 different ways, so I won't assume anything. I fear that as interesting as pursuit of this discussion may be, it would inevitably stray off into the proverbial verboten political weeds, so I will simply
I agree with you comment entirely, and lament that it is the truth.
Peace.

 

[Vinslom Bardy]

I could easily interpret which part of this you find ironical in 2 or 3 different ways, so I won't assume anything. I fear that as interesting as pursuit of this discussion may be, it would inevitably stray off into the proverbial verboten political weeds, so I will simply
I agree with you comment entirely, and lament that it is the truth.
Peace.

Yeah, and I come here to escape the dung-flinging masses anyway, so any attempts to turn this into a political debate would not come from me.

As you may have concluded, I devote a fair amount of time to the study of this subject, particular mass communications using technology and the psychological impact it has on the masses. The one thing I’ll leave you with is that none of this is by accident. There are a handful of folks in this country that profit handsomely off of our division and our distraction, and they have no intention of giving it up. A return to civility would be the killing of their golden goose.

Cheers!

 

[Rancid Rumpboogie]

I knew a bunch of Basque sheep herders when I worked in Idaho. They all packed a 44 magnum on their hip.

On this forum it seems that whenever there is any kind of real discussion ... meaning anything other than superficial, getting into nitty-gritty detail, it always seems to evolve into two or three people trading opinions, someone else deciding it seems like an argument, when none of the actual parties is either heated or offended ... or actually arguing ... and that someone else letting loose with a personal barrage aimed at one of the "offending" parties, usually whichever one happens to have a point of view counter to that someone else's. Gergen forgot all about "mind your own business". If any of us had any sense (including me) when we find one individual who does want to carry on a detailed point-counterpoint debate/discussion, we would take it off-line into Private messages because this forum as a whole is totally incapable of reading it without getting their panties all in a bunch for whatever reason.

 

[Domesticus]

I've been accused of doing that from time to time!

Please don't do this while we have our discussion about the words "prepare" and "Bereiten" over German beer at Lake Arrowhead.
I'm not prepared nor bereitet for that.

 

[patb]

Yeah, and I come here to escape the dung-flinging masses anyway, so any attempts to turn this into a political debate would not come from me.

As you may have concluded, I devote a fair amount of time to the study of this subject, particular mass communications using technology and the psychological impact it has on the masses. The one thing I’ll leave you with is that none of this is by accident. There are a handful of folks in this country that profit handsomely off of our division and our distraction, and they have no intention of giving it up. A return to civility would be the killing of their golden goose.

Cheers!

I like the visual on the dung flinging masses. It might have filled he coliseum on a slow day.
"mass communications using technology and the psychological impact it has on the masses" . My first thought is a deadening of the senses followed by the inability or unwillingness to think critically.

 

[Shodai]

"mass communications using technology and the psychological impact it has on the masses" . My first thought is a deadening of the senses followed by the inability or unwillingness to think.

Fixed it.