Anyone else shocked by Gibson's lower prices?

Discussion in 'Gear Talk' started by deejaid, Apr 15, 2016.

  1. panther

    panther Blues Newbie

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    Jack;
    That is precisely what IS happening.Like I pointed out Epiphone....
    Let's see what happens MID November !

    Dan
     
  2. panther

    panther Blues Newbie

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    Chuck;

    What would you guess is the actual markup of the Les Paul Standard guitar ? My guess, OVER 100%.

    Dan
     
  3. Chuck

    Chuck Moderator (One of the Men in Black!)
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    Probably so Dan. My guess is that the MSRP probably is. Just like Kevin mentioned, once you get transportation costs and handling involved with all of the different retailers trying to get their cut, it very well could be.
     
  4. jackderby52

    jackderby52 Prehistoric blues knob (not newbie)

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    Kevin is spot on...
     
  5. jackderby52

    jackderby52 Prehistoric blues knob (not newbie)

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    For all you kids that think they are simply an over priced, slapped together, hunk of wood.. Think about what it would take to build them for profit... Or to simply make a living?? (Yes, that's why companies are in business... To make money). Seriously, think about what it would take? Or go build one yourself, by scratch, figure how much time it took, how much it cost to build in parts/materials?? How much you would like to get paid by the hour?? Then think about how you are going to sell them/distribute them? How much profit you would like to make for your efforts? Now figure out how to make 2,000 of them a week... Oh, then add in acoustic's... I know 2k is expensive, but man if you had to tell me go start a company and do it cheaper?? Then I would have to go contract out to China... I applaud companies like Gibson, Taylor, etc... for making a go at in the USA and employing hundreds of workers...

    Check this out before you decide if you can do it for cheaper..
    http://www.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Features/en-us/309-gibson-usa.aspx

    Chew on this, Martin started in 1833!! How many business can say that?? Oh yea, my other most favorite company, Yuengling!! The oldest operating brewing company in the United States, established in 1829!! Martin and beer!! they were meant to be!!
     
  6. Norfolk Bill

    Norfolk Bill norfolk uk, just knoodling along

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    Still believe there are better or equivalent quality , cheaper alternatives out there , unless you want that name on the headstock :), hrs of hand polishing does nothing for the tone

    for example 80's made Peavey guitars , or an undiscovered gem
     
  7. Chuck

    Chuck Moderator (One of the Men in Black!)
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    There are, same with Fender or any other manufacturer out there for that matter. I have more than my fair share of Gibsons and I'm happy with what I have and what I paid for them. Nothing else I own comes close in quality and Fit and Finish to my Gibsons. Considering what I paid, I would expect as much. Did I pay too much? Not as far as I'm concerned, I'm happy with what I have and what I paid.

    At the end of the day, it boils down to the individual and what he or she wants. If the price is what they are willing to pay, then all is good.
     
  8. Jalapeno

    Jalapeno Southeastern Michigan

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    If you buy and sell guitars periodically Gibson and Fender will generally hold their value for resale. A lot of Gibson's will increase in value as well. At least in my neck of the woods.

    Some really nice guitars are made by companies like Hagstrom but the resale value, IF you can sell it used, around here is terrible. For example a Les Paul from 10 years ago will go for reasonably close to the purchase price, say $1700, but a $1200 Hagstrom, if you can sell it, will go for about $500. That is not a commentary on the quality of the guitar, that is just how the market is around here. Same with a Reverend, you'd better put a huge discount on it if you want to sell it here (and the company was founded about 4 miles from my house).

    So when buying a Gibson or a Fender you'll have options down the road that you just may not have with other makers. If you never plan to sell the guitar then who cares how much it cost, right?
     
    Chuck and mountain man like this.
  9. Norfolk Bill

    Norfolk Bill norfolk uk, just knoodling along

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    Very true, in fact i have two Hags i bought , after going shopping for a gibson a few years ago :)
    but im not a gear junkie , very rarely buy anything, got my rig a few amps a nd four guitars, they all play better than i do, dont go the tone searching route i find my own,,,,,,,he says playing in a cover band lol, but thats where the vox modeling amps come in
     
  10. giayank

    giayank Just another day in paradise

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    I run a small factory . We build our own product. We have a full benefit package for our 15 employees along with a retirement plan. The owner is my brothers family. We don't have fancy offices. The owners answer the phone. The older kids work in the shop with me. We all own our own homes . Nothing fancy. The offices aren't pretty. We do have new computers and phone systems . I work four days a week in the shop and the office works a five day week. I mention this because most of the problems I see are caused by greed. Us older guys in my company made our money sent kids to school now we pass it on to our kids while we're alive to see it. We don't base our prices on a percentage of gross. We base our prices on how much do we really need. Multi million dollar bonus's to CEO's constant raises to executive staff and corporate expense accounts are obscene to me. We work with a scaled down staff and when we need more man hrs we give overtime to our employees. It's not a business model you'd learn at the Harvard school of economics but it's one I'm proud and fortunate to be part of. Gibson says it's in financial trouble. The oil industry says it's in trouble as well. Their business model is different. They work off a percentage profit margin. That percentage stays the same . It could be 100,000.00 or a million or a billion. Anything less than that percentage means they consider it a bad year. Gibson has been selling over priced instruments for over 100 years. They have made billions of dollars. I feel bad for workers losing their jobs. I don't feel bad for another example of corporate greed.
     
    wildwood likes this.
  11. Rancid Rumpboogie

    Rancid Rumpboogie Blues Mangler

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    Hmmm. I don't buy guitars to sell them. I buy them to keep and play. I could actually care less what their resale value is. If a guitar I own can't be made to sound and play wonderfully (by pickup swaps, different neck, whatever), it goes in the dumpster, I won't sell it to some other poor unsuspecting oaf. I am big on buying inexpensive guitars that play well (most of them these days do) and upgrading the pickups in them to be the equal of or surpass a high-end guitar. No way would I get my money back out of them, but I really just plain don't care.
     
  12. cowboy

    cowboy Blues, Booze & BBQ

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    Well, I'm glad to see that I got some of you guys motivated...:whistle:...

    Being a a bit on the serious side...:rolleyes:..., my background in sales and management (before becoming an educator) actually did give me some experience in markup, labor & P & L statements...but that's another story...

    in reference to my above post:

    1) the simplest guitar made (the telecaster/esquire) in the hands of a player is magic...no need for megabucks...
    2) after watching the sales technique used in a guitar box store (...:censored:...no names mentioned), I can appreciate the reality of going back to my local mom and pop store...the one's who can't afford to carry that $6,000 Les Paul but will give me a honest answer to a simple question...

    so...my apologies for "stirring the pot"...but I'm glad you all don't take me too serious anyway...:)...later.

    cowboy
     
    steve o likes this.
  13. blackcoffeeblues

    blackcoffeeblues Student Of The Blues

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    OK; here is a little info I would like to pass on........In 1969 Gibson moved their Epiphone line to JAPAN----that is EXACTLY the same year that
    YAMAHA (guitars the first oriental guitar company into the AMERICAN market Nation Wide...a few years before the "LAWSUIT".
    I play A "MEMPHIS LES PAUL MODEL" made by YAMAHA...it has the GIBSON open book headstock/set neck... and I will DAMN NEAR bet you...that body was made by "GIBSON"....
    GIBSON only made the "PANCAKE BODY and/or The SANDWICH BODY" 3 years. 69-70-71...
    ONCE JIMMY HENDRIX showed up on the scene with his STRAT, GIBSON took a kick in the ASS...there sales dropped to an all time low .
    Many of there L.Ps. were shipped to JAPAN. and reconstructed and renamed.
    They Started it; now I guess they are going to finish it.:cry::cry::cry:
     
  14. deejaid

    deejaid Blues Junior

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    Well, this thread started as an innocent inquiry if anyone has noticed how Gibson lowered their prices even lower than pre-2015 prices and has turned in to the BGU Economics seminar.:D

    When I can I prefer to buy an American made product and am willing to pay more for something made here. There has been many posts in this thread about the real cost of making a guitar in the USA and e haven't even discussed "Custom Shop" guitars. I've seen $4000 Fender Esquires and thought how is that $3000 more than an American Standard. What was possibly done to that guitar to warrant that price.

    Or, how about this, a 2016 Gibson Firebird T is $1099


    A one pickup, "Custom Shop" Firebird l also with a nitro finish is $4800!
     
  15. burlew

    burlew Blues Junior

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    It's an interesting discussion around pricing, profit, channel management, consumer buying motives etc.

    But spare a thought for your buddy across the pond (Pacific), cause we have the added volatility of the currency exchange rate. Today we're at 0.76 cents. So add 24% to the US price, plus the international freight. As example. . . .

    Gib LP Tadiotional 2010 $3000
    Gib ES 335 $3750
    Gib 355 Lucille $3900
    Gib 2009 '56 VOS Gold Top $2400 Second hand
    Etc etc

    This is what I paid in oz $.

    And of course the same applies for amp, pedals etc.

    But it doesn't stop there. We also pay USD $6.75 for a gallon of gas.

    Thankfully the beer is cheap!!

    db
     
  16. jackderby52

    jackderby52 Prehistoric blues knob (not newbie)

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    Burlew, sounds like your country has their priorities straight!! Cheep beer!! :)...

    Cowboy, no need for apologizes.. I love a "stirred pot" and absolutely enjoy the different approaches/opinions.. It's all good...
     
  17. kestrou

    kestrou Blooze Noobie

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    Cowboy - I *do* loves me some pot stirring! :)

    Deejaid - there's a big difference between the "standard" and custom shop stuff... Sure the materials might be a little pricier on a custom shop (bone nut, flame maple, etc), and the labor might be a little more (aging or inlay, etc) but - yeah - you're paying a premium for that custom shop label above and beyond the regular margin on their standard product. That's why manufacturers like doing those models!

    You want a solid "standard" Gibson? They're way less than those custom shop models and nobody's holding a gun to your head to make you purchase on the high end.

    Rest assured there will always be idiots out there (my hand is in the air) willing to pay that premium though - and here's a thought for you: sales of those custom shop models subsidizes the whole enterprise. Yup, the idiots throwing money at the custom shop covers overhead to keep those standard model prices as low as they are. You're welcome! :)

    Kevin
     
  18. blackcoffeeblues

    blackcoffeeblues Student Of The Blues

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    DEEJAID; sorry for going off subject there. I did see the price reduction and wonder how it came about...from what I am seeing in Sweetwater catalogue it seems to be approximately hanging around $600 (some more, some less) but it is good for us the consumers...Like you, I am starting to feel I can afford that FIREBIRD. I also feel it could possibly lower the price of used ones which would be better. It will be interesting to see if Fender, PRS, and other U.S. companies follow suit.
     
  19. HotLks

    HotLks Blues - it's in me and it's got to come out.

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    Chuck -

    Thank you for giving this some perspective. I guess it could be MUCH worse.

    See you down the road! :thumbup:
     
  20. giayank

    giayank Just another day in paradise

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    For all my complaining I did buy a Gibson SG couple yrs back . By far the most expensive guitar I own but boy is it sweet to play and hold . It's one of their less expensive models cost me off Amazon 800 bucks with interest free for 12 months. I have since bought other guitars of the cheap knock off variety that are upgradeable to the same level as this SG.but I'm happy I could afford the entry level Gibson .it's hard for me at my level of play to justify spending more for an instrument. We are all in different circumstances however and whatever works is the way to go .