Alt Pent #2: I disappear down the rabbit hole.....

[Paleo]

Please keep in mind, I have to live with my obsessions. I realize you don't. But Griff's the one that always gets me started.

(And I've been ignoring learning my SRV.)

I started experimenting playing Em or Bm pentatonic over the 4th the measure of a Blues in A and I thought:

What if I play Em or Bm pentatonic over an entire chorus of a blues in A, instead of just over the 4th measure?

I already know I can play Am over the whole thing.

Then when I plotted out all the notes in the 3 scales* and combined** them, I realized it's a A Dorian/D Mixolydian scale (or any other mode of G Major).

Each of the minor pentatonic scales (and their Relative Majors) is a "subset" of those 2 modes.

Woo Hoo!!

So I slapped a 5 chorus Slow Blues in A into Audacity and recorded over it as follows, staying with the same scale over each chorus (mostly just up and down each scale):

1) Em pent (Box 3)
2) Bm pent (Box 5)
3) Am pent (Box 1)
4) A Dorian (Standard 2 Octave from 6th string A)
5) D Mixolydian (same as A Dorian, but from D on the 5th string)

Not a "bad" note to be found.

https://dl.dropbox.com/s/e2l9q9ceslin3vj/Messin' 'round 5 choruses.mp3?dl=0

*
Am = A C D E G
Em = E G A B D
Bm = B D E F# A

They all have A, D & E.

But since not all notes are in common, they're not Relative to each other.

Even though their Diatonic "parents" are.

What??

**Combined:

A B C D E F# G = A Dorian
D E F# G A B C = D Mixolydian

Same as combing A Maj and A min pentatonic.

I'm assuming the hole goes even deeper.

(And I've already been in it for the last 5 years.)

 

[Silicon Valley Tom]

Very interesting, and I believe that you have found something very important! All the notes you played sounded like they were a perfect complement to the piece of music. Please forgive what I am about to say, and it is not meant to be in anyway negative, but a means of exploring your finding even further. .

Your finding is something that will allow a Blues player to gain confidence, and could be used as an important exercise. Add to those progressions, a few basic techniques. A pause, slide, bend, hammer on, pull off, at the right place to make it sound like a conversation!

As you were playing, I was creating a song out of your progression in my head. I heard some really fantastic music. I just eliminated some notes, and imagined manipulating the notes with the above mentioned techniques, thrown in here and there.

That was so neat! I really think that we should explore this further.

Thank you.

Tom

 

[artyman]

This very subject came up in the latest video with Justin Sandercoe and Captain Lee, it happens towards the end if you want to jump ahead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-2Gcj6RoNA

 

[Iheartbacon]

This very subject came up in the latest video with Justin Sandercoe and Captain Lee, it happens towards the end if you want to jump ahead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-2Gcj6RoNA

I just watched the section at the end, but I like what he is saying. The big part is around the 50 minute mark.

He starts by saying if you are playing blues in A, the notes of the G major scale will work over it, but the key (bad pun intended) he eventually gets to is that you are not playing a G major scale and cannot think of it as a G major. You are playing A Dorian and the notes you land on and emphasize are going to be A minor notes. The 7 notes in the A Dorian just happen to be the same as the 7 in G major, but they are not the same scale. A Dorian is better thought of as the A minor pentatonic with two extra notes.

 

[Paleo]

Before we get too far off on a Modal tangent, I just want to bring this back to the original concept Griff discussed during the last AAP Live Session concerning "Alternate Pentatonics".

The idea is to use a different pentatonic scale from the "usual" for a brief time. One suggestion was using the Em pentatonic over the 4th measure of a Blues in A leading into the IV chord, rather than staying on A minor (or A Major). Then coming back over the IV.

This is what I was discussing in my "Alt Pent" post prior to this one.

In this one, I just wanted to see what it would sound like to use an "Alternate Pentatonic" scale over the whole progression, i.e. what would Em or Bm pentatonic sound like over a whole Blues in A as opposed to using Am throughout.


Now, concerning the Modes of G Major discussed in Justin's video.

G Ionian-------->G A B C D E F#----->G Major Pentatonic----->G A B D E
A Dorian-------->A B C D E F# G----->A Minor Pentatonic----->A C D E G
B Phrygian----->B C D E F# G A----->B Minor Pentatonic----->B D E F# A
C Lydian-------->C D E F# G A B----->C Major Pentatonic----->C D E G A
D Mixolydian->D E F# G A B C----->D Major Pentatonic----->D E F# A B
E Aeolian------->E F# G A B C D----->E Minor Pentatonic------>E G A B D

Yes, the 7 note Diatonic modes all have the same notes, i.e. they are Relative scales.

Now back to "Alternate Pentatonics".

However, when you consider their respective 5 note Pentatonic scales (Major 1 2 3 5 6, minor 1 b3 4 5 b7) they do not all have the same notes.

The Pentatonic scales derived from these 6 Relative diatonic scales are not all relative to each other.

However, G Major & E minor are relative. So are D Major & B minor, as well as C Major & A minor.

So, now playing Em or Bm or Am over the Blues in A will all produce different, "Alternate" sounds.

They will all have A, D & E in common, but the notes not in common will, as always, be the spice to sprinkle in occasionally.