Bb Lydian Does Work Over The "Mr Crowely" Progression?

[Paleo]

At least I think so.

It's only Bb Major/Ionian that doesn't work because the chord built on 7 has a diminished 5th.

Lydian also has a 7, but the chord built on it is minor. It has a Perfect 5th.

The #4 of Bb Lydian (Eb-->E) raises that diminished chord of Bb Major to minor (A C Eb -->A C E), so A5 works.

It also changes the ii to II (C Eb G-->C E G), so C5 still works.

It's the iv chord in Lydian that has a diminished 5th (Eb G Bb-->E G Bb).

In that case, seeing an E5 would be a problem.

The progression can be seen as Bb Lydian since there is no E5 and A5 now has a P5:

D5 Bb5 C5 D5 Bb5 G5 A5--> iii I II iii I vi vii.


In the discussion, D Aeolian, Bb Lydian and C Mixolydian are all relative (same notes).


We could try choosing G5 or A5 as the I chord and see which modes we come up with.


The diminished 5th will occur in a different place in each mode.

In Major it's on the vii.
In Dorian it's on the vi.
In Phrygian it's on the v.
In Lydian it's on the iv.
In Mixolydian it's on the iii.
In Aeolian it's on the ii.

 

[Paleo]

If your head is spinning you are not alone. Theory for me is both a blessing and a "curse".

I love trying to solve "musical problems", but can't shut it off til I come up with a satisfying answer.

So after a rather sleepless night I came up with this:

The only potential problem that might arise is when the chord you choose to call the I chord actually is the I chord.

Then the vii can't be a power chord.

However, if it is, the chord you chose can't actually be the I chord.


In the example, there is an A5 when we choose Bb as the I chord. Can't be.

But it's there, so conversely, we can't be in Bb.


So what key are we in or said another way, what is the Parent Major scale?


Griff demonstrated that choosing D5 as the I chord led to D Aeolian.

We could stop right there.

D Aeolian is the 6th mode of.......F Major.


He went on to show that choosing C5 as the I led to C Mixolydian.

C Mixolydian is the 5th mode of......F Major.


In F Major the vii is Emb5. So there can't be an E5 power chord in any mode of F Major.

And the relative Lydian of F Major is......Bb Lydian.


So I come to the same conclusion as before, only from a different route.


We can't have an E5 and the A5 exists as a vii in Bb Lydian.


Any mode of F Major would work. Except E Locrian with it's b5.


A power chord on a vii chord is a mistake only if what we call the I chord is actually the I chord (which defines the key).

Otherwise, that "I"chord could be a I in Lydian and we couldn't have a power chord on the iv.

 

[Paleo]

Oops! One more thing.

We have 5 out of 6 possible power chords in this progression.

If we had all 6 we could figure out the key from the one chord that's not represented.

It must be the vii.

(Actually we could figure it out from the root notes alone.)


The more chords we have, the better the chance that one of them is actually the I chord.

Fewer chords leads to less certainty.


The whole point is, as Griff states, and I as a paleontologist also state, "We work with what we got".

OK. I'm satisfied.

 

[Paleo]

Aargh! I still can’t shut it off!

How about this?

If you have 2 power chords a half-step apart they gotta be iii and IV in a Major key.

 

[jmin]

Sheeesh, Paleo...too much coffee this morning?! I lost ya at .."diminished 5th."
Keep up the good work. I know I'll understand you one of these days!

 

[Paleo]

Yes I'm still at it, it's a sickness and I probably need help.

I've re-watched the session from 35:00.

Griff's rule is, " You can't choose a home base that gives you a vii(b5) chord".

I added the (b5).

Because if you do have a vii (without the b5) you're in Lydian and the chord you chose as I is actually the IV.

All other modes have a bvii or bVII.


We could choose each chord to be a IV instead of a I.

We would have written out the Lydian scale from each.

Starting on Bb would pose no problem.

It would be a ivb5 that we couldn't have in Lydian.

Which would be an E5, which we already discovered we can't have.

We would still come out with relative modes of F Major.

Even though there isn't an F5.


So we can't choose a home base (Major scale or mode) that gives a b5 on any chord.



I also checked out if the 2 power chords a half-step apart "rule" works using other examples from the session.

"Iron Man" has an F# and G which is the 3 and 4 in D Major.

Griff came up with B Aeolian, which is relative. (He inadvertently wrote down Bb Aeolian.)


"Eye Of The Tiger" has a G# and A, the 3 and 4 in E Major.

Griff came up with C# Aeolian, which is relative.


Say it again. "All the modes of a Major key are the same notes".


Am I done yet?

 

[Paleo]

Every time I see the title to this thread I'm starting to see, "Bob Dylan Does Work Over The "Mr Crowely" Progression"?".

So, yes, it's time to give it up.

I don't even know who Mr. Crowely is.