The Cleveland Indians/ name change

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blackcoffeeblues

blackcoffeeblues

Student Of The Blues
My Grandfather Arthur Hightshoe pitched for the then " Cleveland Bluebirds" back in 1901 and 1902---13 years before the team voted to change their name too the "Indians They had been through 2 or 3 more names between the Blue Birds and the "Cleveland Indians". The name "INDIANS" was to show respect for "Louis Saskaliexs" a Native American from Maine athlete who, at the time, had abnormal athletic abilities..it is said that he once threw a line drive ball to home plate -414' from center field to put out the runner-his batting was just as deadly as his arm. He only played for the team 2 years. Due to a alcohol problem they let him go. But the FANS and TEAM members voted to change the name from the "Spiders" to the "Indians".in honor of one of the greatest Native American athletes ever ----Right up there with Jim Thorpe---(the founder of Pro- football.)
Now people are demanding it to be changed because they think it is degrading to the Native Americans. I just don't know-I just don't know. I don't know anything anymore. (n):(
 
brent

brent

Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.
blackcoffeeblues said:
My Grandfather Arthur Hightshoe pitched for the then " Cleveland Bluebirds" back in 1901 and 1902---13 years before the team voted to change their name too the "Indians They had been through 2 or 3 more names between the Blue Birds and the "Cleveland Indians". The name "INDIANS" was to show respect for "Louis Saskaliexs" a Native American from Maine athlete who, at the time, had abnormal athletic abilities..it is said that he once threw a line drive ball to home plate -414' from center field to put out the runner-his batting was just as deadly as his arm. He only played for the team 2 years. Due to a alcohol problem they let him go. But the FANS and TEAM members voted to change the name from the "Spiders" to the "Indians".in honor of one of the greatest Native American athletes ever ----Right up there with Jim Thorpe---(the founder of Pro- football.)
Now people are demanding it to be changed because they think it is degrading to the Native Americans. I just don't know-I just don't know. I don't know anything anymore. (n):(
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Jim Thorpe was an Olympic athlete. Apparently, he is in my family tree somewhere.
 
Cowboy Bob

Cowboy Bob

Horse Player/Guitar Wrangler
Yeah I don’t get it either. The county just changed the name of my road from Squaw Creek Road to Wanatee Creek Road because the word squaw is apparently derogatory.

Squaw Creek park, and the actual creek, Squaw Creek have been changed to Wanatee as well. Not like there ain’t other more pressing public safety issues that need to be dealt with. We’ll spend money this way. Since they changed the name, they need to do a land survey: the roads, the creek and tributaries to it as well. Now we have to pay to get our license, registrations, checks, etc changed. I am NOT changing the name of the studio though. Still Squaw Creek Road Studio, and will remain so.

I swan, conscientious doogooders.
 
P

piebaldpython

Blues Junior
The problem with the Cleveland Indians isn't so much the term INDIANS, it's their cartoonish Indian logo that seems to represent a buffoon or person with too much to drink.

As to squaw, while it may have been an Anglicization of an Native American Indian word to mean woman, the term is now regarded and has been for a number of years, as derogatory and offensive........https://repository.si.edu/bitstream...rticle on web page.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
 
blackcoffeeblues

blackcoffeeblues

Student Of The Blues
piebaldpython said:
the term is now regarded and has been for a number of years, as derogatory and offensive........https://repository.si.edu/bitstream...rticle on web page.pdf?
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So some overly sensitive; overly educated; people, find the word "Squaw" derogatory and offensive. And they want everybody to follow their rules-that just ain't in my blood.
As for the description of there LOGO-that is why the people and team voted to call them "Indians"., "Person with to much to drink"--they loved him for that reason (they liked to drink too). Once they had to let him go attendance fell sharply and so did there game winning.
 
arock

arock

Help! I'm a rock
blackcoffeeblues said:
So some overly sensitive; overly educated; people, find the word "Squaw" derogatory and offensive. And they want everybody to follow their rules-that just ain't in my blood.
As for the description of there LOGO-that is why the people and team voted to call them "Indians"., "Person with to much to drink"--they loved him for that reason (they liked to drink too). Once they had to let him go attendance fell sharply and so did there game winning.
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Not sure how someone can be "overly educated."
 
blackcoffeeblues

blackcoffeeblues

Student Of The Blues
arock said:
Not sure how someone can be "overly educated."
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Overly educated is when you think you are smarter than you really are--- OR--- thinks their so smart that they know what is best for me and you. Now that is overly educated.
 
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matonanjin

matonanjin

Chubby, old guy trying to play some blues.
blackcoffeeblues said:
I think "SQUAW" means "WOMAN" in Indian Language---if it does what's the beef?
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You think "Squaw" means woman? Which indigenous language do you speak? Why do you think this?

In Lakota the word for woman is "wíŋyaŋ". That is for a mature woman. Lakota speakers differentiate the word by the age of the woman referred to. A young woman is called "wikȟóškalaka". There may be another Native language with a homophonic word to "squaw" but I don't know what that language would be. The word for woman in Tsalagi, Dineh, Ojibwa, Ho Chunk, and Omaha are not close phonetically.

What is without question is the word "squaw" is now hugely offensive to Native peoples. Below....

piebaldpython said:
As to squaw, while it may have been an Anglicization of an Native American Indian word to mean woman, the term is now regarded and has been for a number of years, as derogatory and offensive.......
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^^^^ This! "Squaw", no matter what its origin linguistically, has come to mean something other than woman. Most Native peoples that I have listened to on this consider he word offensive and to mean a word starting with "c" that I would get in trouble on here for repeating.

blackcoffeeblues said:
Overly educated is when you think you are smarter than you really are--- OR--- thinks their so smart that they know what is best for me and you. Now that is overly educated.
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Without acknowledging or contradicting the offered definition of "overly educated" it is always the uneducated that vociferously object to the political correctness of the discussed. And, invariably, these self-appointed protectors from overzealous political correctness offer up their evidence in the form of "I know a guy" who supposedly has Native ancestry and "He is not offended!".

My experience with those most likely to find offense in the mascots, while entirely anecdotal, is the result decades of conversations with members of the Sičháŋǧu and Oglála tribes from the Rosebud and Pine Ridge reservations respectively. Without exception the sentiment is the same.
 
Silicon Valley Tom

Silicon Valley Tom

It makes me happpy to play The Blues!
"Political correctness" is so important! At least to some. Take the Stanford Indians, a football team representing Stanford University. From 1930 until 1975, an Indian mascot represented the team. In 1964 I saw him in action while attending a football game in Portland, Oregon. Stanford Indians vs Oregon Ducks. Timm Williams, or Prince Lightfoot as he was called, was "dressed as an Indian". He did dances during the game. He was a Modoc Indian, from the San Francisco Bay Area.

I met Timm Williams in a Sociology Class while attending college. He came dressed as "Prince Lightfoot", to give us his views on the subject of Stanford dropping the association with the word "Indians". The conversation I had with him was very interesting. Our attitudes and feelings towards such matters may vary for whatever reasons. Timm was very upset, as he had just lost his source of employment. It was important to him to have a source of income, and he had been the Stanford mascot for years. Suddenly he was "on the street", to make some people happy.

A name may be in vouge for years and then for some reason, it is no longer acceptable. Life goes on. We hope! So be sue to support the Stanford Cardinals. What's that? There is a group objecting to the use of the word "Cardinals"? Oh well, there are other words that can be used in association with Stanford Football! ;)


Tom
 
blackcoffeeblues

blackcoffeeblues

Student Of The Blues
matonanjin said:
listened to on this consider he word offensive and to mean a word starting with "c" that I would get in trouble on here for repeating.
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----I have the deepest respect for the Native Americans. Now days every body whines about how they are being treated, the mass amount not even born in the U.S.A. but here illegally.
I live in Arizona---and I see what the white man has done to Native Americans. It is the biggest atrocity ever commited in U.S. history: But everybody just wants to sweep it under the rug like anything else they feel like that they don't want to face. I have worked on many reservations here in Arizona--Navajo-Hopi- San Carlos Apache; Gila reservation, Yavapai Apache,(I could go on)and when I see how they are treated and the living conditions they have to live in it makes me sick at my stomach--it is the one thing that makes me ashamed of being an American.
My wife and I contribute to help the Navajo Nation during this Virus-some of them people still don't have electricity-and never ever have had-
And I am sorry if I offended you, My original post was meant to honor the Native American "Forgotten" people. But I also see how you could find it offensive. Please accept my apology Thanks
 
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Grateful_Ed

Grateful_Ed

Student Of The Blues
Silicon Valley Tom said:
"Political correctness" is so important! At least to some. Take the Stanford Indians, a football team representing Stanford University. From 1930 until 1975, an Indian mascot represented the team. In 1964 I saw him in action while attending a football game in Portland, Oregon. Stanford Indians vs Oregon Ducks. Timm Williams, or Prince Lightfoot as he was called, was "dressed as an Indian". He did dances during the game. He was a Modoc Indian, from the San Francisco Bay Area.

I met Timm Williams in a Sociology Class while attending college. He came dressed as "Prince Lightfoot", to give us his views on the subject of Stanford dropping the association with the word "Indians". The conversation I had with him was very interesting. Our attitudes and feelings towards such matters may vary for whatever reasons. Timm was very upset, as he had just lost his source of employment. It was important to him to have a source of income, and he had been the Stanford mascot for years. Suddenly he was "on the street", to make some people happy.

A name may be in vouge for years and then for some reason, it is no longer acceptable. Life goes on. We hope! So be sue to support the Stanford Cardinals. What's that? There is a group objecting to the use of the word "Cardinals"? Oh well, there are other words that can be used in association with Stanford Football! ;)


Tom
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The more things change, the more they stay the same. For pedantic purposes only Tom, it's the Stanford Cardinal (singular). They're not birds, they're a color. shrug-smiley.png
 
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Silicon Valley Tom

Silicon Valley Tom

It makes me happpy to play The Blues!
I had a scholarship to Stanford, because of my activity in basketball during high school. Unfortunately, I was not able to make use of it, as I had to support my mother and brother.

Our daughter attended UCLA, where she received her degree in English. We had bought her a Stanford sweater, and she would wear it in the San Jose area. No big deal! We went to visit her at the track, at UCLA, and she wore her Stanford top. She received so many negative comments, and threats. We had to get her back to her dorm where she changed. It is funny, as people wearing UCLA tops would not receive comments in our area. I think the Bay Area is a bit more tolerant.

Tom
 
matonanjin

matonanjin

Chubby, old guy trying to play some blues.
blackcoffeeblues said:
...
And I am sorry if I offended you, My original post was meant to honor the Native American "Forgotten" people. But I also see how you could find it offensive. Please accept my apology Thanks
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Your post did not offend me and no apology is necessary. I think I made clear what does offend me and today I will say no more. Maybe tomorrow.
 
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