Recording with effects? Mastering?

[Elwood]

Help from the gurus ...

1) when recording an instrument (guitar, whatever) where do I want to introduce the effects? Do I set my guitar amp so it sounds great with effects going in to the digi interface / daw? Or, should I send a clean signal to the DAW and do everything there? I don't use much stuff so my concern is mainly reverb or a hint of delay. I don't think it is good to have different reverbs running at different places along the signal path?

2) Mastering? Do you render all your tracks into one track and the run the mastering SW or do you just use it on the master track of the mixer in the DAW, or does it make any difference? I took Ghosty and ran mastering on a rendered final track and I believe it sounded better than using it earlier. (Long shot you understand this one I guess.)

Thoughts please?

 

[PapaRaptor]

I'm not a guru, but...

1. Both. My amp/interface/whatever of choice is still my Eleven Rack. It gives me the processed audio that I hear while recording and it also can provide a dry guitar signal, which I always record. Which one survives (or both) depends on what I hear in the track. If what I hear on playback from the processed signal doesn't please me, I'll take the dry signal and futz around with it by either reamping through the 11r or using the amp simulation software and effects in my DAW software. I like a little reverb, but I' ve started doing most everything without it in my original recording, so I can add to taste while mixing. My processed signal is now simply an amp/speaker combination either without effects or a pedal (usually TS) in the mix.

I have two favorite settings on my 11r. One is a Marshal JTM-45. The other it a Super Reverb. I've been known to use both, recording one of the amps and using the dry signal to reamp using the other amp, then panning one midway left and the other midway right. That's this week. Next week I may have found something I like better.

2. I only use mastering in the final mixdown and only on the master track. I have Izotope Ozone 8 Elements plugin that I use (and basically let it set things up) if I'm doing a full mix. I also have Ozone 9, but unfortunately, forgot to apply for the free license they were offering a month or two ago.

 

[Jalapeno]

I'm not a guru either, but...

1) when recording an instrument (guitar, whatever) where do I want to introduce the effects?

I think it really depends on your vision for the final product. I think of it like this:

• When you have the exact sound that you want in the final product from your amp (or very close to it) record the amp as is. But understand if you record with the effect applied it probably cannot be removed later if you change your mind. 99.99% chance you don't possess the skill to remove it yet.
• If your vision is not clear, and you have an interface that allows it, record both the dry signal and the one from your amp. If the amp track works then move on. If not, you can reamp or process the dry signal and you don't have to re-record. (very handy when you have the licks down and might not be able to reproduce).
• If your interface only allows one signal then make the dry signal your track. Reamping is not difficult. It sounds harder than it is.

2) Mastering?

Mastering is the final phase to get your product. Think about where the term comes from. In the past music was recorded on tape but records were pressed from vinyl. In the studio they recorded and mixed down to a stereo or mono track (or both for a brief period) and created a "master" copy that was sent out to the record plant for pressing to vinyl. Even in the digital world mastering should (probably) be the final step after recording and mixing. Since people have two ears it might be considered a good practice to make a stereo mix with the track levels correct but with lots of headroom. You'll want lots of headroom in the final mix. Mastering is the process of taking the final mix and setting the final stereo levels, compression if needed, sparkle if needed. Think of mastering as the fancy paper and bows on the present, not the present itself.

Like I said, I'm not a guru but those are my approaches.

Eric

 

[Cowboy Bob]

Lots of good info ^^^ up there.

I too, use Eleven Rack for the bulk of my guitar tones, however, it is not my interface. I had been using it it via S/PDIF into my main interface, and record both dry and affected (wet) signals.

With OS 10.15.5 (Catalina) the driver for 11R is no longer operable, which only really means that I can't use it as an interface. No biggie, never did. I have also started recording 11R analog signals instead of digital, which right now I seem to prefer. I still get both the wet and dry signals but now I can also record at 192 kHz if I choose, AND I can get the color of the interface, again, if I choose.

I use a patch bay, and 24 of my insert points are set to "Half Normal" so, I can also spit the dry guitar signal, send it to my other 11R, send it to my TR or BM and mic it, OR, (and this is mostly it) I send the signal to my Mustang GT 200, then take the line out of that and patch it back into two more inputs. So I am playing it once (or however many times it takes to get it right ) recording the dry signal, the 11R wet signal AND another wet signal of some sort.

So I basically end up with three guitar tracks, one dry and two stereo wet. I could, and have, reamp the dry track and get yet again a third affected guitar tone, or I'll use the 11 MKll plug in, or whatever other guitar sim I choose on a copy of the dry guitar track, which I will typically commit (render) as soon as I am happy with it.

Yes, "mastering" should be done to the summed tracks. Try not to use tool much compression on individual tracks as that can mess up the headroom I tend to use a "print" track for that, and not the Master bus. I'll do a brick wall of -1.0 db, and shoot for -14.0 dblufs.

Ozone is a GREAT tool! I have used Ozone advanced for quite a while. For me, it works best as a starting point. The tweak slightly from there.

 

[CaptainMoto]

Guitar Effects:
I usually have a blend of pedals and in the box effects.
Because I always use my amp/pedal board, I dial in what I want there and send it to the DAW.
If I want more or different, I'll apply some plugin effects.
I don't worry too much about overlaying reverbs.
Quite frequently, I'll set up a wet dry signal and blend to taste.
It goes without saying, that you have more flexibility if you send the signal dry and only and do all your effects in the box.
You can't undo what you sent in so, the more you rely on your amp/pedals, the greater the need to get it right the first time.

Mastering:
One nice thing about Studio One is, the built in mastering (project) suite.
After building a mix, there's no need to do a mix down, you just send it to the project and it sums it there for further mastering.
Once in the mastering project I can add any meta data including album art, composer, writer, artist info to link any royalties back to me.
I usually don't use it unless I'm putting stuff on streaming services.
For most of my stuff, I just try to get the mix right then if I want to boost the volume with out clipping, I'll apply a limiter.
Aside from adding a last bit of flavor to a track, the mastering process helps you get some consistency across all tracks on an album.
Consequently, If I'm releasing an album I'll use mastering with some help from Ozone.
However, for me, the biggest benefit of using Ozone is comparing my mix to a reference track.
Having said that, I can accomplish that without Ozone but, It does simplify the process.

 

[Elwood]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies guys!
I believe I will improve the process and the result with the info you guys shared. (I'm in Reaper, just starting to learn my way around)
I have the Isotope starter stuff. I now realize I instinctively found the shortest path to misusing it, at least in part. (some of the effects sounds in Ozone sound great on an individual track, until you get a few of those things cascading, then it sounds like a can full of rocks going downhill fast, I will try not to paint with a hammer, use the right Isotope gizmo in the right place, duh)
The "guru" thing was a bit flippant , but it is all relative. You guys have served that role for me quite well, now and in the past. I'm quite sure at least a couple of you can remember not that long ago, I didn't even know what a digital audio interface was, now I are one!
EZdrummer is driving me nuts, lovin that!!!

 

[Jalapeno]

Regarding easy drummer... I really like to make my own beats so when using easy drummer I have a little pad device from Korg called the nanoPAD. They don't make the one I have anymore because they replaced it with the nanoPAD2.

Here is a review from 2009 about mine. The current one works really close to how this one works.

Of course you'd substitute easy drummer plugin in Reaper for his example of Battery3 in Ableton Live.

Eric

 

[Many Moons]

Hey Elwood. You've got some good advice so far, so you probably don't need more, but I thought I'd let you know how I record my stuff.

Drums, Keys and now Bass (most of the time) are all software instruments.

I put my guitars directly into my Clarett4PreUSB, and pick a tone in a plugin in my DAW that inspires me to play better, and if I find out later that it doesn't suit I can change it.

Same with my mic for vocals, except I do have a pretty standard (tried and tested) set of plugins that I like to use on my voice.

Nothing fancy on the mastering, I use Toontrack EZMix2 'Airy Ambience With Limiter', on my stereo out.

 

[Elwood]

Thanks MM! Your stuff sound fantastic so thanks for sharing!

Right off you help me with my outlook. "software instrument", or "virtual instrument" those are legitimate terms and I need to use them, in my head. I am still very much adjusting to tons of changes, I carried a prejudice against "gizmos" since they aren't "real". After hearing so much of what you guys do with this stuff I come around to a more appreciative outlook. EZdrummer really sits there waiting for parts to play, you select the parts and arrange them. You guys knew all this, I just had to get it.

Clarett, very nice! I opted for a 68c Pre-Sonus. Not quite the specs but similar I/O. My little chicken coop studio is growing. I still need to see grill cloth. I play into amps and figure it out from there. Both my Fender amps have modern tricks so I have the normal cheesy effects and much needed I/O.

I am getting a studio one package with the interface. I will install it and see if I can join in the S1 learning experience here on the board. Plug ins, another of Pandora's missing boxes.

Stay healthy over there!!!!

 

[Many Moons]

Plug ins, another of Pandora's missing boxes

Be careful going down that rabbit hole Elwood. It can prove expensive. Trust me, I know. I must have bought over 50 plugins, and between them, and the dozens of freebies that I have downloaded over the years, I use about half a dozen of them.

I use LogicProX and don't know a lot about Studio One, but I'm pretty sure it will have more than enough onboard plugins to do the job for you, so don't be tempted.

You stay safe too brother.