Bingo!
Pedals/Effects OK, let the barrage begin ...
- Thread starter Rancid Rumpboogie
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Rancid Rumpboogie
Blues Mangler
And what does that say about those 6,000 players? That they just want to make music and don't care where it comes from? Don't care if tone comes from the fingers or not, yet will go on incessantly about amp tone and which amp is better, which pickups sound best, which pedals sound best? If tone from the fingers really is the foundation of all their tone, don't you think they would be shouting it from the roof tops? They aren't. It isn't. 'nuff said.
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dwparker
Bluesologist
Style, tone, semantics, genre, common parlance within a like-minded community, creating music, playing guitar, playing pedals under the guise of playing guitar, playing pedals to enhance guitar sound, virtuosity, nuanced discussion, bold statements, opinion, fact, what lies between the two, past experience, sounds in our head, what the audiance hears, just one more piece of gear will get me the sound in my head, plugged, unplugged, string diameter, fat, thin, pickups, amps, monitors, room and venue acoustics, no right or wrong, random thoughts running through my head while reading this post...
Rancid Rumpboogie
Blues Mangler
You forgot "pedals are better than multi-effects units", "tubes are better than SS", "modeling amps suck or don't", "tonewood is more better than concrete", "bone nuts actually do something plastic nuts don't", "people who say rosewood neck are wrong because it's just a rosewood finger board", "fingerboard wood affects tone or doesn't ... geez, why doesn't it sound different if your finger is over a perloid fret marker instead of over the bare wood", "locking tuners are worth the money or not", "set necks sustain better than bolt on necks", on and it goes and it will never end.
Grateful_Ed
Student Of The Blues
CaptainMoto
Blues Voyager
Tone in the fingers.............
My opinion is the player has the largest influence on the music that is produced.
Yes, what we hear passes through a string of electronics that shape the tone but, nothing electronic can make one player be something he/she is not.
I've said this before, I've heard many mediocre players sound better with good gear but, I've never heard a great player sound bad on anything.
I'll offer up an example closer to home, .........the BGU Virtual Jam Room.
We have a number of members participating with varying frequency.
I don't consider myself an expert on anything musical, I'm just another players with all the flaws that come with trying to learn.
Having said that, here's my observation:
Over time, even though the players are using a variety of gear, I can identify most players after just a few notes.
It's the player I can recognize not the gear.
My opinion is the player has the largest influence on the music that is produced.
Yes, what we hear passes through a string of electronics that shape the tone but, nothing electronic can make one player be something he/she is not.
I've said this before, I've heard many mediocre players sound better with good gear but, I've never heard a great player sound bad on anything.
I'll offer up an example closer to home, .........the BGU Virtual Jam Room.
We have a number of members participating with varying frequency.
I don't consider myself an expert on anything musical, I'm just another players with all the flaws that come with trying to learn.
Having said that, here's my observation:
Over time, even though the players are using a variety of gear, I can identify most players after just a few notes.
It's the player I can recognize not the gear.
As I have said a few times before.
It's a semantic thing.
Most of us say tone when we mean overall sound/feel (the players DNA) That's why Griff Sounds like Griff no matter what equipment he is playing. He tweaks the hardware then puts his "Griffness" into it.
Other people use a more strict definition of TONE.
Both "Sides" are right within the definition that they abide by.
That's why this whole discussion is ridiculous. We are not all talking about the same thing.
It's a semantic thing.
Most of us say tone when we mean overall sound/feel (the players DNA) That's why Griff Sounds like Griff no matter what equipment he is playing. He tweaks the hardware then puts his "Griffness" into it.
Other people use a more strict definition of TONE.
Both "Sides" are right within the definition that they abide by.
That's why this whole discussion is ridiculous. We are not all talking about the same thing.
Rancid Rumpboogie
Blues Mangler
I agree 100%! And all of this is a player's STYLE, which is 100% in his fingers, and not his TONE. It his STYLE that makes him recognizeable, not his TONE. You will recognize Clapton as Clapton and love his playing whether through his favorite gear or on a cheap Squier Strat through a cheap Silvertone SS amp where his playing excels but his TONE SUCKS.
This is why I am such a stickler on the DISTINCTION between STYLE and TONE. Until we all learn to make that DISTINCTION we cannot even communicate because many of us are not even talking about TONE when we lump style and tone together and call it all TONE. Sorry, but it makes me want to tear my hair out, and I don't have much left. To me it's not at all a semantics thing, it is something else entirely. Semantics is when you use different words to describe the same thing. We are not talking about the same thing here.
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sloslunas
NM Blues
Rancid Rumpboogie
Blues Mangler
Well, go ahead and lock it down if you refuse to make a simple distinction. If you won't make the distinction, I agree this is going nowhere. It's not only beating a dead horse, it's like trying to talk to a post.
artyman
Fareham UK
As many know on here I've been chasing Hank Marvin's tone for ages, have the gear (no idea) but I still don't sound like him, so I would be inclined to say the tone is in the fingers, but I can see where Rancid is coming from and yes I guess it is a combination of tone and style
Rancid Rumpboogie
Blues Mangler
THANK YOU ARTYMAN! FINALLY! I am actually getting through to SOMEONE!
Hank Marvin used specific pickups. You most likely will never achieve the tone he had with anything else. Maybe close, but close doesn't really count. I don't know what string gauge he used, but that most likely is another part of it.
https://www.soundaffects.com/access...iseless-pickups-for-stratocaster-fv-hms-p1967
https://kinman.com/model-products.php?pid=4&products=Stratocaster&linegroup=yes&modelid=20&model=Hank+Marvin+set&group=Named Sets
Kinman pickps are EXCELLENT, the ONLY other pickup brand I would recommend for a Strat besides Zexcoils. They equal the Zexcoils in tone and noiseless silence. I have 5 different Kinman pickups in my Warmoth Strat. I built that a good 10 years ago and Chris Kinman himself bent over backwards to advise me on which pickups would work best in which position for my series / parallel pickup combinations. We corresponded for months about this guitar. Note the three black mini-toggle switches just above the trem arm "handle".
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Grateful_Ed
Student Of The Blues
I think, over the years, everybody has figured out what Jim is trying to say.
If we have to have a strict, stick up the arse definition of "tone" there is no arguing.
However as many have said, two different people playing the same gear, will likely sound different.
To me, that difference in sound is as much "Tone" as the difference in the sound between two different pickups is "Tone".
Just wanted to get my nickle in before this was shut down for ever until next time.
If we have to have a strict, stick up the arse definition of "tone" there is no arguing.
However as many have said, two different people playing the same gear, will likely sound different.
To me, that difference in sound is as much "Tone" as the difference in the sound between two different pickups is "Tone".
Just wanted to get my nickle in before this was shut down for ever until next time.
PapaBear
Guit Fiddlier
I think we should expand on the definition of style, for instance when I think of the blues there's Delta, Memphis, Chicago...…. a lot of guys play in those styles, but they don't all sound the same?
Now it's all getting clearer, I've been trying to play Crossroads with Clapton's tone and I should have been playing in his style, right?
Rancid Rumpboogie
Blues Mangler
The tone doesn't matter a bit. If you play Crossroads "right", the way Clapton or some other artist plays it, mastering the licks and phrases and progresssion and timing they use (their style), it will be fully recognizable as Crossroads. Play it "wrong" and all the tone in the world won't make it recognizable.
Delta, Memphis and Chicago blues are all different genre and each has its own general style. Each artist has his/her own personal style within the genre. Listen to SRV and Jimmy Vaughn playing the same song together, trading solos. The song has its genre and style, and SRV and Jimmy have very different personal styles yet they both fit the song's style (and they each have very different tone to boot).
Here are five artists playing five different personal styles all within the same song's style.
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tommytubetone
Great Lakes
Since you're the OP and those are you wishes, consider it done.
Thanks Woody!
Disengaging warp engines.
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