Modes

ingog

Started in 2009
I'm practicing the modes.(Griff just posted a few videos about them). I just don't know WHEN to use WHAT mode?
In my learning group that I play with, I am responsible for playing the solos in One Como Va, with some improvising (I originally just memorized them). Once Griff told me it was A dorian, my fingers went nuts and I started to find Santana's notes much more easily. . My improvising became significantly easier and appropriate. The two teaching pros actually clapped after my part. It was quite reaffirming. When I played on different locations on the neck, now I know why it works. But HOW would I know it was Dorian? I know why A is the tonal center and G is the 1 chord, because of the D7 (It's only a two chord song with no G). Why Dorian.
He gave a couple of more example of how a guitarist played a melody, and once you realize the mode the lights go on in one's head. Just how would you know what mode.
 

ingog

Started in 2009
So That is the only time to use Dorian.? How about the other modes? When do you use them?
 

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
Look at all the chords in any Major Scale.

Using G Major as an example.

G Am Bm C D Em F#mb5 = I ii iii IV V vi viib5

If you have a progression that uses any combination of these chords and the G chord is the tonal center, you are in Ionian Mode.

If a progression using these same chords has Am (ii) as the tonal center, you are in Dorian Mode.

If Bm (iii) is the tonal center, Phrygian Mode.

C (IV) as the center is Lydian Mode.

D (V) as the center is Mixolydian Mode.

Em (vi) as the center is Aeolian Mode (E Natural Minor)

F#mb5 (viib5) as the center is Locrian Mode.


The chord progression and its' tonal center "dictate" the Mode.

(Keep in mind that each Mode above uses the same chords and you would solo using the notes of the G Major scale. Only the tonal center changes.)


The Am-D progression is in Dorian Mode since Am is the ii chord in G Major

However, you can use a Dorian Scale in other contexts, as well.

For example, in a Blues in D.
 
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ingog

Started in 2009
Thank you. Can I assume that if we did the same thing in the A major scale, ii would be Dorian also? I'd guess there are different rules for a minor scale.
 

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
Can I assume that if we did the same thing in the A major scale, ii would be Dorian also?
Yes. The ii chord as the tonal center in any Major scale will always be Dorian.

A Major = A Bm C#m D E F#m G#mb5

Any progression using these chords with the Bm (ii) as the tonal center is in B Dorian Mode.

And you could re-arrange the chords putting Bm first: Bm C#m D E F#m G#mb5 A = ii iii IV V vi viib5 I

And if you like, re-number them: i ii III IV v vib5 VII

I'd guess there are different rules for a minor scale.
Actually, no.

The Natural Minor scale is the same as the Aeolian mode, i.e. starts from the 6 of a Major scale.

Again, A Major = A B C# D E F# G#, with the following chords A Bm C#m D E F#m G#mb5.

An F# minor scale has the same notes, but starts from F# = F# G# A B C# D E, so the chords are the same as A Major, just putting F#m first:

F#m G#mb5 A Bm C#m D E = vi viib5 I ii iii IV V

and if you re-number = i iib5 III iv v VI VII

If re-numbering you get i-iv-v as all minor chords (as in a minor Blues).

Any Natural minor scale/Mode is the Aeolian mode of a Major scale. Same notes and chords, just starting from the vi.

In effect, we're just referring to the Major scale and it's Relative minor scale as the Ionian & Aeolian Modes. They have the same notes and chords, we just put them in a different order starting with the note or chord that is the tonal center of that Mode.
 
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Randy S

Blues Junior
The D7 is the clue. A dominant 7 chord must be the V chord (usually) That makes the key G with an Am as the tonal center. A is the second degree of G and the second mode is Dorian. So A Dorian .
 

ingog

Started in 2009
If I understand correctly in the minor scale (starting from the 6th) the ii would still be Dorian.
 

ingog

Started in 2009
And from the major example G, being the I, would use the Ionian, if that was the tonal.
 

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
If I understand correctly in the minor scale (starting from the 6th) the ii would still be Dorian.

Yes, but.....

Don't try to think of Modes within the minor scale, since the minor scale is a Mode of the Major scale.

All the Modes are Relative to each other (same notes), but the Major scale is the "parent" scale.

The Major scale is our reference.


Back to G Major:

You're just taking the same G Major scale chords and re-arranging them by putting the tonal center first.

For G Ionian----->G Am Bm C D Em F#mb5-----> I ii iii IV V vi viib5

For A Dorian----->Am Bm C D Em F#mb5 G----->ii iii IV V vi viib5 I

For E Aeolian (minor)----->Em F#mb5 G Am Bm C D----->vi viib5 I ii iii IV V


However, the numbers (Roman numerals) still refer to each chord in relation to the G Major scale.

The most important thing to realize is that the same chord has a different function in each Mode.

That's why I like to re-number them after re-arranging them.

G Major is the I chord in G Ionian, the VII chord in A Dorian and the III chord in E Aeolian.
 
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Randy S

Blues Junior
If I understand correctly in the minor scale (starting from the 6th) the ii would still be .
No.

The minor scale and the Aeolian mode are two names for the same thing- a major scale played starting from the 6th of the scale. If you start from the 6th then the ii would be the 7th degree, which is Locrian and the tonic chord would be a diminished chord. You're not likely to ever see this.
 
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