Amps For those who belive in the holy grail the Valve amp

paul wilson white

BLUES.THE POWER OF ALL MUSIC
Only recently began learning about what tubes are what.

Have a Fender Concert II that last time I had it serviced about 7 years ago, had Groove tubes put in them. Couldn't tell you what tube types were used where.

Picked up a Mesa Mark V: 35 earlier this year and had a tube issue so I had to delve into the tube set and pick up some replacements to test etc. This is a new amp, so they are Mesa branded tubes. The preamp section is comprised of 6 12AX7's and the power section uses four EL84s.

That all said, I couldn't tell you what different tubes would do, etc.

All I know is that there can be a certain creaminess that comes when everything is working right.

And it makes me sigh happily.

And I learned something new... there are only three factories that actually manufacture them all. I'll have to look into that more... maybe.

Jim, your newfound discipline and restraint is admirable. :D

Paul, I'll play only to the extent of saying that without lots of additional information, all responses you might get are meaningless and applicable only to the responder's personal taste, situation and use case. At this point, we know nothing about yours, so what can anyone say that makes sense?
If you want meaningful answers, you have to ask better questions.
I am not being negative or snippy or anything like that - it's just a fact.

Point taken and I see where your coming from.My amp is on here and all the pictures my amp is very complex as I run to sets of valves.i have a switch that changes the bias so I can change which set of valves I use with a flick of a switch
My first set of valves run 6 12ax7s jj brand in the pre amp then a kt 150 tung sol
Then flick the swich and we have a pair of tung sol 12ax7 plus 2 12x7s tung sol in the pre amp then in the power stage I run a pair of jj kt88s and a pair of tung sol 6550 s then there is the boost system that runs a 12ax7s by its self to boost and raise the signal level
 

paul wilson white

BLUES.THE POWER OF ALL MUSIC
I plead guilty to total ignorance. What is a valve amp, what are the valves? Probably a dumb question but I have no idea of what a valve amp is.
Hi Bob a valve amp or tube amp what ever you want to call them are the amps that created all the best music that we are all learning or playing in the world like the Gibson 59 and the Marshall j900 and the fender with the 59 tweed fender amp there the sound people chase and every modelling amp try's to get close that includes Kemper and all the other modelling amps try to recreate but can not there good but there not Valve and never will be
 

MarkDyson

Blues Hound Wannabe
Hi Bob a valve amp or tube amp what ever you want to call them are the amps that created all the best music that we are all learning or playing in the world like the Gibson 59 and the Marshall j900 and the fender with the 59 tweed fender amp there the sound people chase and every modelling amp try's to get close that includes Kemper and all the other modelling amps try to recreate but can not there good but there not Valve and never will be

Gotta say: how much of that reverence is based on lead playing? I've been a rather obsessive student of tone for over a year, and one thing that leaps out at me is there is a stark difference between desirable tones for, say, soloing and for solid rhythm playing,

I'm not making any sort of value judgement between those perspectives; I love them both! Just positing the things that come up on my radar as I explore both the glorious rabbit holes of theory and the practical nuts and bolts of playing out as a rhythm guitarist wannabe. :Beer:
 

paul wilson white

BLUES.THE POWER OF ALL MUSIC
All my amps use 12AX7s in the preamp position.
I've experimented with lower output preamp tubes such as 12AT7s and 12AU7s.
For my studio work I found those to be very good but, I've never used them outside the studio.

For power tubes my # 1 amp uses a 6V6GTs , it's a reproduction of an early 50's Fender and I like the clean tone I get from it.
My #2 & #3 amps both use EL84s, I'm not very good at describing tone so, I'll just say they the sound different from the 6V6s, maybe a little more bark or growl on the breakup.

Very inteteresting what brand 6v6GTs are you using
 

paul wilson white

BLUES.THE POWER OF ALL MUSIC
Gotta say: how much of that reverence is based on lead playing? I've been a rather obsessive student of tone for over a year, and one thing that leaps out at me is there is a stark difference between desirable tones for, say, soloing and for solid rhythm playing,

I'm not making any sort of value judgement between those perspectives; I love them both! Just positing the things that come up on my radar as I explore both the glorious rabbit holes of theory and the practical nuts and bolts of playing out as a rhythm guitarist wannabe. :Beer:

Great point Mark Dyson from my point of view there good for both as for rythum you turn your volume down and for lead you crank it and maybe apply a pedal for lead I know bernie marsden and he plugs straight in to a Marshall jcm 900 no pedals and plays rythum and lead just by volume control.
Hence my amp weather I'm clean tone or distorted my boost puts me in the lead position then it's up to me if I hit a pedal to drive the amp or a cry baby or any effect then stand of the boost I'm back to a lower output regardless of effects
 

Silicon Valley Tom

It makes me happpy to play The Blues!
well as the thermionic valve was invented in london in 1904 ,,its a bleedin valve ;)
As is the case with so many things in life, more than one person contributed to the discovery and then the creation of the vacuum tube or valve.

Frederick Guthrie, and Thomas Edison (patent 1884) are a part of the equation of Thermotic Emission.

However, what these gentlemen contributed was to become known as the “Diode”, with Fleming creating a practical device. It did not amplify. That credit goes to Lee de Forest, who patented the grid Audion in 1907. In 1911 de Forest moved from New York to San Francisco.

Historically, to me De Forest was a son of a bitch, who stole credit from Edwin Howard Armstrong. I will not go into that story. Armstrong is my hero! (y)

I have been interested in the history of electronics since I was very young. My brother and I took great pleasure in researching the subject, and I began when I was 11 years old.

So as I see it, Fleming invented the valve, which was a diode, a two element device, incapable of amplification. De Forest put the “grid” into the device, and called it a vacuum tube. Now, if you wish to distinguish the difference between a diode and an amplifier, you may do so and you would be correct. So if you were to refer to a valve as a diode, and a vacuum tube as a triode, tetrode, or pentode, etc. we would be in agreement. However, I doubt that any proper Englishman would ever concede the term "valve" for the use of "vacuum tube"! :eek::)

Do not be surprised if Americans lump all types of tubes as vacuum tubes, as you Britts use the term valve. I just want to be fair and allow the proper term to be used to correctly describe the object at hand! Technically, a valve cannot amplify but was important in the world of radio transmission, and converting AC to DC, to power vacuum tubes, used as amplifiers, receivers, transmitters, and other devices. Today, there is little need or use of the valve, as the silicon diode has taken over most of that requirement! :)

By the way, have you seen that interesting balloon flying over London? I would truly love to see it in person. :):Beer:

Tom






 

JPsuff

Blackstar Artist
Tung Sol.
I've also used adapters to drop EL34s into my EL84 slots.
I didn't really do a true A/B comparison so, I don't have much of an opinion on the EL34s.


Speeaking of adaptors, is there such a thing as an adaptor to convert 6L6's to EL34's?

If so, I''d be curious to try them to see what the differences might be.
 

paul wilson white

BLUES.THE POWER OF ALL MUSIC
As is the case with so many things in life, more than one person contributed to the discovery and then the creation of the vacuum tube or valve.

Frederick Guthrie, and Thomas Edison (patent 1884) are a part of the equation of Thermotic Emission.

However, what these gentlemen contributed was to become known as the “Diode”, with Fleming creating a practical device. It did not amplify. That credit goes to Lee de Forest, who patented the grid Audion in 1907. In 1911 de Forest moved from New York to San Francisco.

Historically, to me De Forest was a son of a bitch, who stole credit from Edwin Howard Armstrong. I will not go into that story. Armstrong is my hero! (y)

I have been interested in the history of electronics since I was very young. My brother and I took great pleasure in researching the subject, and I began when I was 11 years old.

So as I see it, Fleming invented the valve, which was a diode, a two element device, incapable of amplification. De Forest put the “grid” into the device, and called it a vacuum tube. Now, if you wish to distinguish the difference between a diode and an amplifier, you may do so and you would be correct. So if you were to refer to a valve as a diode, and a vacuum tube as a triode, tetrode, or pentode, etc. we would be in agreement. However, I doubt that any proper Englishman would ever concede the term "valve" for the use of "vacuum tube"! :eek::)

Do not be surprised if Americans lump all types of tubes as vacuum tubes, as you Britts use the term valve. I just want to be fair and allow the proper term to be used to correctly describe the object at hand! Technically, a valve cannot amplify but was important in the world of radio transmission, and converting AC to DC, to power vacuum tubes, used as amplifiers, receivers, transmitters, and other devices. Today, there is little need or use of the valve, as the silicon diode has taken over most of that requirement! :)

By the way, have you seen that interesting balloon flying over London? I would truly love to see it in person. :):Beer:

Tom


Well what can I say other than you are correct it is a valve in a vacuum tube one is for radio and the other is to transmit or amplifie signal but in the uk there sold as valves all be it the wrong name totally.
Now as you say Englishman which is outdated and not said anymore we are British I no the history and all that but we say British now unless it's football,cricket or rugby we are aloud to say English very strange I know but that's the real facts lol
But seriously they are vacuum tubes you are right so I anit a proper Englishman I'm British as I also no the history of the valve and the tubes I also no how the vacuum tube became part of the famous Neumann microphone how do i know there part of my family Now that is a very interesting story I will post a picture of my wife's great uncle working on the first Neumann microphone it's very interesting


 

CaptainMoto

Blues Voyager
Speeaking of adaptors, is there such a thing as an adaptor to convert 6L6's to EL34's?

If so, I''d be curious to try them to see what the differences might be.
Speeaking of adaptors, is there such a thing as an adaptor to convert 6L6's to EL34's?

If so, I''d be curious to try them to see what the differences might be.
I believe the answer is yes.
I remember reading something from MESA amps about what difference you might expect.
 

snarf

making guitars wish they were still trees
Over the years I have figured out that I tend to prefer the sounds of a good tube amp. I have also figured out that tube amps have a front end and back end (pre amp and power amp I think). I have always said I prefer the sound of a Vox for crunch and the tweed Fender sound for clean. That said, the older I get the more I have to admit that I am sometimes unable to hear the difference in amps (Marshall vs Fender vs Vox vs whatever else), and may have been buying into some tone-snobbery in my earlier days of playing. I very much like the sounds I get from my amps (Blackheart, Vox, and Fender). All that to say that I'm not sure I could tell the difference in tubes in an amp...or at least have never heard them side by side enough to be able to identify which is which. I think most of my amps have 12AX7s in the front side and other tubes in the back (although I have no idea what kind).

You're right. I have absolutely nothing of value to contribute to this conversation other than this pic of the inside of a Blackheart Little Ant (1w amp) along with this warning. Please remember that amps are a choking hazard...do NOT try to stick them in your mouth.

IMG_2501.jpg
 

LosBassMan

"Bottom Feeding since 1996"
RCA gc black plate 6l6 are considered the "holy grail" valve/tube you can only buy them as NOS as they have not made any in a while. When you can find them they are not cheap $150.00/each. Out old guitarist used them and I have to say they sounded great--but any amp sounded great with him playing thru it.

Carlos
 

paul wilson white

BLUES.THE POWER OF ALL MUSIC
Over the years I have figured out that I tend to prefer the sounds of a good tube amp. I have also figured out that tube amps have a front end and back end (pre amp and power amp I think). I have always said I prefer the sound of a Vox for crunch and the tweed Fender sound for clean. That said, the older I get the more I have to admit that I am sometimes unable to hear the difference in amps (Marshall vs Fender vs Vox vs whatever else), and may have been buying into some tone-snobbery in my earlier days of playing. I very much like the sounds I get from my amps (Blackheart, Vox, and Fender). All that to say that I'm not sure I could tell the difference in tubes in an amp...or at least have never heard them side by side enough to be able to identify which is which. I think most of my amps have 12AX7s in the front side and other tubes in the back (although I have no idea what kind).

You're right. I have absolutely nothing of value to contribute to this conversation other than this pic of the inside of a Blackheart Little Ant (1w amp) along with this warning. Please remember that amps are a choking hazard...do NOT try to stick them in your mouth.

IMG_2501.jpg
Nice Amp I like it,and I'm with Tom class A is my preference aswell
 

CaptainMoto

Blues Voyager
Over the years I have figured out that I tend to prefer the sounds of a good tube amp. I have also figured out that tube amps have a front end and back end (pre amp and power amp I think). I have always said I prefer the sound of a Vox for crunch and the tweed Fender sound for clean. That said, the older I get the more I have to admit that I am sometimes unable to hear the difference in amps (Marshall vs Fender vs Vox vs whatever else), and may have been buying into some tone-snobbery in my earlier days of playing. I very much like the sounds I get from my amps (Blackheart, Vox, and Fender). All that to say that I'm not sure I could tell the difference in tubes in an amp...or at least have never heard them side by side enough to be able to identify which is which. I think most of my amps have 12AX7s in the front side and other tubes in the back (although I have no idea what kind).

You're right. I have absolutely nothing of value to contribute to this conversation other than this pic of the inside of a Blackheart Little Ant (1w amp) along with this warning. Please remember that amps are a choking hazard...do NOT try to stick them in your mouth.

IMG_2501.jpg
My hearing has also deteriorated over time.
Consequently, my ability to detect slight differences in tone is greatly diminished.
I can say, that in my experience, the tonal difference between amps and tubes is less noticeable at lower volume and much more noticeable at higher volume.
Just for reference, here's a EQ chart that depicts Fender, Vox & Marshal amps.
EQ curve.jpg
 

Silicon Valley Tom

It makes me happpy to play The Blues!
RCA gc black plate 6l6 are considered the "holy grail" valve/tube you can only buy them as NOS as they have not made any in a while. When you can find them they are not cheap $150.00/each. Out old guitarist used them and I have to say they sounded great--but any amp sounded great with him playing thru it.

Carlos
I miss the good old days when I could purchase a brand new RCA 6L6 from Standard Surplus, in San Francisco, for 25 cents! :)

Tom
 
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