BB Box confusion

BoogieMan

Blues Junior
I've always used the lV chord position as a quick way of finding the BB box when soloing using the minor pentatonic scale. Is the BB box the same as Griff's major house position (index finger on the 2nd string root)? And if you're using the major pentatonic scale, does the BB box shift down a couple of frets to what Griff calls the minor house position (3rd finger on the 2nd string root)?
 

BoogieMan

Blues Junior
The guy drinks way too much coffee! This was actually the video that made me decide to go back to review the BB box concept. I guess the position of the BB box is related more to the chord progression than the scale being played.
 

Norfolk Bill

norfolk uk, just knoodling along
well no,,, i dont think so its basically a small section of the major scale in whatever key your playing in. to answer your question i think,,say you play that 5 note box in A as you suggested starting B string 10th fret its major,,drop down 2 frets and play the same thing its the extesion of A minor

and yes Griff calls it a house shape
 

MikeS

Student Of The Blues
Staff member
Unless I'm completely off base, which I usually am, the BB Box is just the G, B & E strings of the Box 2 Minor Pentatonic (Or is it Griff's House pattern or are they the same thing? um....
Pattern In A:
e|-8---10-
b|-8---10-
g|---9----

Play:
e|-10--8-------------
b|-------10--8-------
g|--------------9----



 

Dr. Ron

Nuthin’ But The Blues!
From my understanding Mike, the BB Box is a modified Box 4 major sound (root note 2nd string); with the modification being
the pattern you described.
 

JN99

Hang Fire
For ez reference I always just think of it as the top half of minor box two up two frets. I find I can get there more quickly than thinking of it in terms of the root on the B string.
 

BoogieMan

Blues Junior
there you go four answers all the same
:)
Not really...

---------------
Unless I'm completely off base, which I usually am, the BB Box is just the G, B & E strings of the Box 2 Minor Pentatonic (Or is it Griff's House pattern or are they the same thing? um....

e|-8---10-
b|-8---10-
g|---9---- (MikeS)

---------------

In the key of A, the BB box is actually

e|-10---12-
b|-10---12-
g|---11----

which is the position of the lV chord D7. I think Jim has it right...

For ez reference I always just think of it as the top half of minor box two up two frets. I find I can get there more quickly than thinking of it in terms of the root on the B string.

For me, the easiest way to think of it is as overlying the lV chord as in the video. I think this is equivalent to Griff's major house pattern.
 

ervjohns

Blues Junior
Griff always said BB box faces left from the root and box 2 faces right - both are "house" patterns. That is the rule I remember, no confusion here
 

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
---------------
Unless I'm completely off base, which I usually am, the BB Box is just the G, B & E strings of the Box 2 Minor Pentatonic (Or is it Griff's House pattern or are they the same thing? um....

e|-8---10-
b|-8---10-
g|---9---- (MikeS)

---------------

In the key of A, the BB box is actually

e|-10---12-
b|-10---12-
g|---11----

In the upper figure Griff's 4 note solo pattern is on the e & b strings. Add the roof on top and you have his Minor House pattern, which is the top of Minor Box 2, as stated. But this is not the house where BB lived.

However, when you move it up 2 frets it is almost the top of Box 4 Major, except for 1 note (D instead of C#). It's also almost the top of Minor Box 3, except for 1 note (B instead of C), so it's not actually either Major or Minor.

The 10th fret on the e string is D but you need a C#, which is a half step below it, to make it Major. So instead of going down a fret on the e string, you bend the B at the 12th fret of the b string up a whole step to hit the C#. That's where BB lived.

You can also bend the 12th fret on the e string (e) up a whole step to get the F#, which is the 6 of the scale and an octave above the F# that is the "roof" of the house.

You pretty much "ignore" that D, so without the roof it's more like a 3 note pattern and you bend each of the 12th fret notes up a whole step to complete the 5 notes of the Major Pentatonic scale.

A-B-B bent to C#-E-E bent to F# = A B C# E F#

e|-10---12---14
b|-10---12---14
g|---11----

And if you slide up to the 14th fret on the b string, you would have Griff's 3+2 Major Scale pattern or what some refer to as the "sliding" or "extended" pattern.

3 ways to play the Major Pentatonic scale: Major Box 4, 3+2 or BB's "House".
 
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Paleo

Student Of The Blues
OK, I watched the whole video.

In summary, Griff's Minor "lower house" pattern is the upper part of Minor Box 2 and this guy now considers it the "Albert King" box.

It has the notes A C D E G = all the notes of the A Minor Pentatonic.

Moving the "house" up two frets ("upper house") has some minor and some major notes but is not completely either.

A B D E F# = 1 2 4 5 6

You can make it minor by bending the B up to C and the F# up to G = A C D E G = 1 b3 4 5 b7 = A Minor Pentatonic.

You can make it Major by bending the B up to C# and ignoring the D = A B C# E F# = 1 2 3 5 6 = A Major Pentatonic.

If you combine all the notes you get A B C C# D E F# G = 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 = Composite Blues Scale w/o b5.

The "upper house" pattern is like a "skeleton" scale from which you can bend some notes to make it Major and bend other notes to make it minor.

The guy in the video is considering all these possible notes as the BB Box, making both Major and minor possible.

Griff addresses this in SBS. He likes to keep Major and minor patterns separate rather than combining them into 1 Composite pattern.

You could also go back to the Albert King minor house pattern and bend some of those notes to make it Major. (My second demo).

So actually either house can be Major or minor by bending the appropriate notes.

I made a couple of my own quick demos for anyone who may be interested.

In the first video I only demonstrate playing the "BB Box" as Major.

https://www.4shared.com/video/jzzgEOZdca/BB_Box.html (8:52)

In the second video I address playing the "Albert King Box" as Major.

https://www.4shared.com/video/FdjHjrQoei/BB_footnote.html (1:22)

Errata: At 0:15 and 1:30 I meant put a "roof" on it, not put a house on it (We're not playing Monopoly). At 0:47 I meant to say b7 not b5.

And yes, we're saying the same thing, but I'm not hopped up on coffee or distracted by "chat".:sneaky:
And as always, I try to relate comments to Griff's teaching.

Warning! And yes, I've been made aware of the problem with the 4Shared site, but haven't had time to change yet.
 
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Paleo

Student Of The Blues
One last “bottom line” kind of post for me. Then I’ll shut up.:)

After a quick Google search for the “BB King Box” I found no two people in agreement as to exactly what that is.

As to an “Albert King Box”, he played left-handed, “upside down” and didn’t use standard tuning. Who knows what kind of “boxes” he visualized.

Griff’s minor house pattern has all 5 notes of the Minor Pentatonic Scale, Box 2.
But, you can bend the b3 up to 3 and the 5 up to 6 to achieve Major notes.

The Major house pattern has 4 out of 5 notes of the Major Pentatonic Scale, Box 4. You can bend the 2 up to 3 to get the “missing” note. But you can also bend the 2 up to the b3 and the 6 up to the b7 to achieve minor notes.

So both “houses” can be used to achieve Major and minor “sounds” (notes) even though each is predominately more one than the other......until you start bending notes.

Knowing when and how to use these “houses” to get the ”sounds” you want is far more important than what you call these patterns or what artist you want to attribute them too. Me thinks.;)
 

BoogieMan

Blues Junior
Not confused at all. BB box left facing from the root is major and with bends can be made minor. If BB played minor he played box 2 right facing from the root
I agree with Billrand on this one. I think you've got it backwards...
 

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BoogieMan

Blues Junior
One last “bottom line” kind of post for me. Then I’ll shut up.:)

Knowing when and how to use these “houses” to get the ”sounds” you want is far more important than what you call these patterns or what artist you want to attribute them too. Me thinks.;)
Thanks for taking the time to research this so extensively. I'm going to copy this thread into a separate document and keep it handy for review.

BTW MikeS, in the intro of the StichMethod video that billrand posted (above), the instructor admits that for years (until he was corrected recently) he thought the BB box was the same as the one you posted.
 
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