My Review of CRGU: Wasn't for Me

Steely Glen

I been down so long, down don't bother me.
I wanted to post my impressions of CRGU after having spent about a week with it (8-10 hours or so). For context, I've finished BGU 2.0, own the CAGED Unleashed, 5 Easy Slide Solos, the Theory course and have completed 2 monthly challenges. I really gravitate toward Griff's teaching style, so CRGU was a no-brainer, but in the end, I asked for a refund, which was graciously provided.

I walked through the first 5 rhythm lessons, slowly and painfully, and then skipped around as I was becoming concerned that this course wasn't what I needed. Below are some of my own personal observations. YMMV.

1) First, the positive. The production quality is the best thus far. Great video and audio (well, maybe except for the audio in some of rhythm exercises where Griff is muting everything out) and great user interface below the videos that track what's being played. The manual is also very robust. Lots of material there, for sure. Kudos for taking the A/V to the next level!

2) No fault of Griff's but the copyright laws really do us no favors here. It's really hard to hear a riff in the style of "Smoke on the Water" or a solo in the style of "Stairway to Heaven," but then it's different. Your hand goes grabbing for the actual chord or that iconic riff you've been hearing since you were 10, but that's not what's printed. For me, this was tough. What I really want is to learn the actual riff or the actual solo with Griff's exceptional teaching style walking me through it.

3) As you go through exercise after exercise, lesson after lesson, CRGU begins to feel like one of those "50 Licks" videos that will teach you a bunch of licks/riffs, but with virtually no musical context associated with it. For my personal learning style, it's not very helpful. Again, YMMV. BGU does a great job with the culminating exercises at the end of lessons to cement the learning by imbedding the lesson material into a complete package (like the 6 solos, for example). Those were exercises I could really sink my teeth into, but with CRGU, it seems chock-full of much shorter riffs and solos that didn't give me enough time really "get into" the material. What would've been cool with the rhythm portion of the course is for Griff to design a song-length exercise to have multiple verses, choruses, and a bridge to give you the feel of playing an entire song with a backing track, instead of an 8-second riff repeated 8 times, and then you move on. And to integrate the rhythm and solo sections into song-length exercises, blending the two skills, would've been a huge bonus too.

4) The way the course opens up didn't help me...at all. No introduction (that I could find anyway) and the rhythm section was very theory-laden. Hours worth of material on rhythm that seemed too elementary in some ways and too advanced in other ways. And the lack of backing tracks meant I spent a lot of time strumming to my own counting, not really sure I was doing it right. It was very non-musical and again, non-contextual. In my opinion, some of the more technical aspects of this section would've been more helpful as an appendix. If you ask most students (who don't know how good Griff is as an instructor) to work their way through the first 5 lessons, my guess is that 95% won't make it. It's too dry. They'll either skip to Lesson 6 ("Power Chords") or give up on the course entirely. That may not help CRGU's popularity in the long run.

5) The videos were too long. I believe Lesson 6's video was almost 50 minutes long with 12 exercises in it. It would've been helpful to have those exercises broken out into individual videos that were easier to manage/loop using software. As it was, I had to try to locate a 30-second clip in an almost-hour long video to learn the riffs.

Anyway, I'm a BGU fan through and through, but CRGU wasn't for me, sadly, because I love classic rock and I wanted it to work, but it didn't. Maybe I'll revisit it in the future, who knows. That doesn't mean it won't be "the thing" for you to really rock out and rock on.
 

mountain man

Still got the Blues!
Thanks. Good information. Just so you know. In Building a Better Blues Solo by Steve Trovato, he shows you a medium length riff and you play it 3 times in the 12 bar blues format. This really worked great for me but it might not work for you? Also, I thought most of Griff's courses had video's of about an hour......... I hope to get to this course in the Spring.
 

kestrou

Blooze Noobie
SG,

I haven't rolled up sleeves and gotten into this - but above was a very well written, and WELL REASONED, review.

I appreciate the effort to write it!

Kevin
 

Steely Glen

I been down so long, down don't bother me.
Thanks. Good information. Just so you know. In Building a Better Blues Solo by Steve Trovato, he shows you a medium length riff and you play it 3 times in the 12 bar blues format. This really worked great for me but it might not work for you? Also, I thought most of Griff's courses had video's of about an hour......... I hope to get to this course in the Spring.

Griff, does play through the various riffs 4-8x over a backing track once you get to Lesson 6. No complaints there. My feedback was that the riff needs to be integrated into a more musical context like a full song with a verse, chorus, bridge, maybe even a key change. That would've made the learning more consistent with what we hear (and might play) in actual classic rock guitar.
 

Steely Glen

I been down so long, down don't bother me.
SG,

I haven't rolled up sleeves and gotten into this - but above was a very well written, and WELL REASONED, review.

I appreciate the effort to write it!

Kevin

Kevin,

Thanks. Doesn't mean that this course won't be "the cat's pajamas" for someone else. Griff is--bar none--one of the best instructors on the interwebs.

I think for me, where I am in my playing, I really need something to get me to the point where I can play complete pieces. I know how do a lot of noodling that probably sounds pretty good individually, but I am woefully unprepared if someone hands me a guitar and says, "Play us something."
 

Scott 2.0

Blues Newbie
2) No fault of Griff's but the copyright laws really do us no favors here. It's really hard to hear a riff in the style of "Smoke on the Water" or a solo in the style of "Stairway to Heaven," but then it's different.

Not sure I am going to buy into that. Seems this is a gray area. Lots of good teachers have videos out there and they say right up front where the music is coming from. That doesn't make it legal, but suspect they are on the right side of the law. Many/all of them caveat their lessons with reminding you that they are teaching - - not copying. Ian Stich is a good example with his "In the Mind of" series of videos. When Ian solos in the "style of" you can hear the original artist - without learning note for note. I learn (or more interested) in riffs/solos that are familiar, to me. However, I do have all of Griff''s solos from the Masters series. Haven't cracked them open - but suspect that those lessons are more in the style that I would like to see for classic rock. I'd probably be more interested in a CRGU if it started from an intermediate level (stop with the counting, stop with where my fingers go - move on). Yes - I get it - cuts out some of the market share.
 

Steely Glen

I been down so long, down don't bother me.
Not sure I am going to buy into that. Seems this is a gray area. Lots of good teachers have videos out there and they say right up front where the music is coming from. That doesn't make it legal, but suspect they are on the right side of the law. Many/all of them caveat their lessons with reminding you that they are teaching - - not copying. Ian Stich is a good example with his "In the Mind of" series of videos. When Ian solos in the "style of" you can hear the original artist - without learning note for note. I learn (or more interested) in riffs/solos that are familiar, to me. However, I do have all of Griff''s solos from the Masters series. Haven't cracked them open - but suspect that those lessons are more in the style that I would like to see for classic rock. I'd probably be more interested in a CRGU if it started from an intermediate level (stop with the counting, stop with where my fingers go - move on). Yes - I get it - cuts out some of the market share.

Not exactly sure of the laws, but I remember Justin Sandercoe of justinguitar.com got a bunch of his lessons pulled for copyright reasons in 2007. Here's the article: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11778602. I think it's highly likely that Griff didn't want to risk the investment he has in this course if the same thing happened to him.
 

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
Griff teaches the "basics" of rhythm and lead. That's it. Period.

If you want more, you'll have to do some work on your own.

Or maybe he'll come out with some "more advanced" courses in the future.

He doesn't play any complete, "actual" songs in any of his courses.

Seems to me this course pretty much parallels his approach in BGU.

What's the diff?
 

sdbrit68

Student Of The Blues
Years ago, I bought one of the guitar white pages Tab series, it included backing tracks of some of the songs, lower volume level so you could play with it.

I got the bright idea, I will upload a bunch to my youtube account, and that way, when I am not at home, I can access them to play along with. 30 days later I got bombarded with a bunch of threatening letters, and my original youtube account was yanked, and I wasnt allowed another one for something like a year.

Now keep in mind, I had like zero people subscribed to my account, hell, I dont know if anyone ever saw those videos, and they nailed me............I had zero dollars invested, so I can imagine that someone with @Griff name would have to be extra careful.

Heck, try finding tabs to some Bob Seeger songs on ultimate guitar, they dont even want that anymore
 

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
...my original youtube account was yanked

I used to have a "cartoon" channel on YouTube devoted to the Fleischer Brothers. I had all of the available Beety Boop cartoons, as well as Popeye and others. I also had all the Beatles Saturday morning cartoons. Most of these were and still are available on YouTube, but I was informed that I had received many warnings (I got none) and my channel was yanked.

It's a crap shoot, even though there is tons of copyrighted material on the Tube.
 

Steely Glen

I been down so long, down don't bother me.
Griff teaches the "basics" of rhythm and lead. That's it. Period.

If you want more, you'll have to do some work on your own.

Or maybe he'll come out with some "more advanced" courses in the future.

He doesn't play any complete, "actual" songs in any of his courses.

Seems to me this course pretty much parallels his approach in BGU.

What's the diff?

Paleo,

Many, if not most, of the examples in BGU are 12 bars long. Some of the solos are much longer. It introduces an inherent level of musicality to the exercises that seems somewhat lacking to me in CRGU. Many of the exercises there are snippets (2-4 bars) demonstrating a particular skill, but they aren't long enough or integrated enough into a band context. And to me, blues has a somewhat standard format conducive to giving instruction "in the style of," whereas classic rock doesn't. Someone can say, "Let's play a slow blues in A" and the group will likely know where they're going. You say, "Let's play classic rock in G" and I'm pretty sure you'd get some confused looks. There isn't the same kind of corporate knowledge as to the format, which is precisely the reason why I had hoped for more musical exercises instead of snippets.

You are correct that a course like BGU doesn't have any "actual" songs or solos--note for note--that are taught. However, I think for a course like CRGU, it's far, far more important to teach the actual music. Why? Because it's called "classic" rock for a reason. It's iconic. It's memorable. It's, well, classic. I couldn't have named a T-Bone Walker song--let alone knew the tune--when I started BGU, but I sure as heck could hum "Back in Black" by AC/DC or "Smoke on the Water" by Deep Purple or a hundred other classic rock riffs when starting CRGU. That's the difference.

For me, if I'm going to spend the time learning classic rock, why wouldn't I invest the time in learning the actual songs instead of learning one-offs and then adapting those skills to learn the actual song? That's all I'm trying to convey in my review. Again, that's just my opinion. YMMV.
 
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Scott

Blues Newbie
I really "enjoy" the trip down memory lane into reading music. It's been a while. I really see no downside to being at least a little familiar with standard notation.
 

Steely Glen

I been down so long, down don't bother me.
I really "enjoy" the trip down memory lane into reading music. It's been a while. I really see no downside to being at least a little familiar with standard notation.

No doubt. I'm working my way through Griff's theory course and it is refreshing to have at least a working knowledge of standard notation. It really helps in communicating with other musicians for whom standard notation is their life.
 

Scott

Blues Newbie
No doubt. I'm working my way through Griff's theory course and it is refreshing to have at least a working knowledge of standard notation. It really helps in communicating with other musicians for whom standard notation is their life.
It means you can communicate with others across their musical genres like classical, country, pop, R&B, etc. And to be able to adopt into blues or "classic rock" it will be key. I've read music since the 4th grade and this so much easier to pick up the rhythms than just tabs.
 

mountain man

Still got the Blues!
I think for me, where I am in my playing, I really need something to get me to the point where I can play complete pieces. I know how do a lot of noodling that probably sounds pretty good individually, but I am woefully unprepared if someone hands me a guitar and says, "Play us something."
I kind of look at this in two ways. 1) If I need to play individually then it needs to be on acoustic guitar and it's a matter of sitting down and taking the time to learn many songs. And do all the things that we learn with BGU. Tap your foot, count out loud, and then after you've got it down then maybe try to sing. 2) If I need to play with a backing track or a recorded song then I can play electric. The two times I have actually tried to learn songs was when I was able to go to open jams and I needed to play the rhythm until it was my turn to play a solo. Griffs BGU and ABGU prepared me nicely for those. And then practicing for this BGU Live next week. I've been practicing a dozen or so songs in an attempt to be somewhat prepared. The point is, I appear to need a reason to get a list of songs I can play like in a set. Otherwise I've been happy to just work on technical skills, riffs, riffs, and then a few more riffs......... Not that I remember very many of them, but my fingers just get more accustomed to floating around on the fret board. Maybe you need need a carrot too? Then you can learn a few songs. If you can't attend an open jam or a BGU live, then make up a reason to have a couple of songs ready. I don't know? Maybe you want to play for the wife and the dawg in two weeks? Whatever? Then work on a couple of tunes?
 
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Mr.Scary

A Blues Legend in My Own Mind
I have to agree with Steely Glen . After looking over the material in this course I feel it repetitive of what I have of Griff's courses right now. Yes there are a few things that are new but all in all I don't feel at this time I can justify spending the money . I know quite a bit of this stuff so it would serve me better to finally get into the 2 BGIAB courses I have instead. I asked for a refund myself.
 

Norfolk Bill

norfolk uk, just knoodling along
re learning songs of different genres,,,
i know i keep saying it but there are plent on youtube of any song you fancy...i always skip there when i have to learn a new song,,,not blues because the band dont play it,,,and if we did then im sure we wouldnt get asked back lol,,but for the modern indie rock we do its ideal,, i would suggest any song you can think of there will be a lesson for it on there,,,jusy thoughts ;)
 

Terry B

Humble student of the blues
I just pulled the trigger on this last night after giving lots of consideration to the above noted issues. Like many others I chose the full package which adds to the cost; I like the Manual and DVDs with Internet reliability an issue for me.

Knowing there would be lots of overlap with courses I have such as BGU, ABGU, strumming and rhythm mastery and 52 rhythm fills, I reviewed the emails Griff has sent over the last week extensively before deciding there would be enough new material for me to justify the cost.

Starting with lesson 1, true enough was material previously covered but still worthy of review, however I think I'll wait for the DVDs to go over this. So skipping lessons 1-5 for the time being I looked through lessons 6 and 9 and found just what I was looking for from a rhythm standpoint.

Lots of stuff reminiscent of early Black Sabbath although no particular song that I can perceive. But that's okay for me because I'm looking to fill gaps in my knowledge and technique more so than learn the actual songs. Once I get this stuff under my fingers I'm sure I'll be able to figure out any song I want to play in that genre, failing that there's always YouTube.

I haven't looked at the solo lessons yet but from what I've seen in the previews I'm looking more for licks and ideas for improvising in this style than complete solos, so I think this is what I'm looking for.

All in all, while I haven't spent the time on it some of you have, I'm satisfied so far.

And I think I've decided upon my CRGU guitar, my SL-59 LP Junior, black with single P-90.
 

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
This is a introductory course.

Griff has said many, many, many times that over the years he has found timing to be the single most limiting factor for most of his students.

He didn't include timing in BGU, but I'm willing to bet if he had it all to do over again, he would. He starts ABGU with a pretty comprehensive presentation of timing and even developed a complete course, Rhythm Mastery.

He also developed a course on Pentatonic Mastery which introduces scales and exercises, including the melodic patterns of 3 & 4 presented in this course.

I can't imagine trying to teach "Classic Rock" songs to students who don't already know rhythm or scales.

So he teaches the basics you will need to continue on your own. Rock isn't rocket science.

He also stated that there was a lot more he wanted to include, but it was getting too big already. That's why I'm hoping there will be more in the future. 5 Easy Rock Solos?

Here you actually get 3 courses in one; Rhythm, Pentatonic Scales and their application to "Classic Rock".

Personally, I don't really need to go over all this material again, but I understand why it is included for "beginners" or those who hadn't learned it previously. And I am thoroughly enjoying the new rhythm material and solos.

Also, you can skip over any lessons you don't feel you need or want. You don't have to do them in order. I went straight to the solos.

Griff also gives you a full year to evaluate a course and still get a refund if you don't like it.

This course has only been out one week. And it was on sale.

Give peace a chance.
 
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Mr.Scary

A Blues Legend in My Own Mind
This is a introductory course.

Griff has said many, many, many times that over the years he has found timing to be the single most limiting factor for most of his students.

He didn't include timing in BGU, but I'm willing to bet if he had it all to do over again, he would. He starts ABGU with a pretty comprehensive presentation of timing and even developed a complete course, Rhythm Mastery.

He also developed a course on Pentatonic Mastery which introduces scales and exercises, including the melodic patterns of 3 & 4 presented in this course.

I can't imagine trying to teach "Classic Rock" songs to students who don't already know rhythm or scales.

So he teaches the basics you will need to continue on your own. Rock isn't rocket science.

He also stated that there was a lot more he wanted to include, but it was getting too big already. That's why I'm hoping there will be more in the future. 5 Easy Rock Solos?

Here you actually get 3 courses in one; Rhythm, Pentatonic Scales and their application to "Classic Rock".

Personally, I don't really need to go over all this material again, but I understand why it is included for "beginners" or those who hadn't learned it previously. And I am thoroughly enjoying the new rhythm material and solos.

Also, you can skip over any lessons you don't feel you need or want. You don't have to do them in order. I went straight to the solos.

Griff also gives you a full year to evaluate a course and still get a refund if you don't like it.

This course has only been out one week. And it was on sale.

Give peace a chance.

Me too. Even if I can't play the fast stuff my ear has to be able to decipher what is being played and see how.
 
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