Key? I still don't know dif between Amajor and Aminor
- Thread starter Strick
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david moon
Attempting the Blues
Well first, that Dm makes no sense in music theory, but it works in the song. I found an instructional video that was in A, so A D Em, just a whole step up (2 frets up)
Saying to play the song in Gm is just nonsensicle.
giayank
Just another day in paradise
There's a lot of work that needs to be done for one to understand why it would be nonsensible .You need to know the notes of the major and minor scales , How they relate to each other . There is no easy way around it . Some of us like theory some of us don't . For those of us who don't I suggest developing your ear . Let them be your guide .For those who need a structured approach get the theory course . It's not hard it's just something else to do .
Thatman
Playin' for the fun of it.
mpaq
Canfield, Ontario, Canada
Interesting....everytime I think im getting this stuff I second guess myself. Heres how I played on your track and it works.....I think I know why, but will let you guys chime in to confirm my thinking before I pretend to have it all figured out. On the A chord I played box 2 at fret 5. I assume that's the major sound. When the chord changes, I tried Box 1 at fret 7...it works but not all the notes....it needs to be box 3 which works perfectly. Or if I move down to the 2nd fret and play box 1 it also works perfectly....but that's F# minor. That's the part im unsure of since Bm and F#m are not related....? I suspect im playing all major sounds regardless of what box or position I was in......?
In my head, im really playing the F#m scale over the whole thing since im in box 1 and then sliding up to box 2...
If I simply strum or arpeggiate the Amaj and Bm bar chords it sounds perfect.
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In my head, im really playing the F#m scale over the whole thing since im in box 1 and then sliding up to box 2...
If I simply strum or arpeggiate the Amaj and Bm bar chords it sounds perfect.
And you're absolutely correct in doing so. It's funny how things happen, often reinforcing a point. If you take a listen to Chuck's song, Tennessee Whiskey, you will find the same chord combination and the leads being played (at least mine) is entirely A major Pentatonic. Based on relative minor, I was playing the low portion of my solo on what you will easily find is F# minor Pentatonic (Boxes 1 and 2) and the higher part was mainly in box 4, with excursions to 4 and 5.
mpaq
Canfield, Ontario, Canada
So the relative minor to A major is Gb or F#. When I think im playing F#minor its just the pattern...its the root note emphasis on the A that makes it the A major scale. If I start on that 6th string root, its the F#minor scale in reality. And conversely, when im playing box 2 in the F#minor scale, but focus on the A note, its really the Amajor scale. So I do get it when I see it on a chart, but god help me to figure this stuff out on the fly. When i use my ears its all good, and I never really give it a thought when im playing...because its way too confusing. This has to be the singularly most frustrating thing for me in learning the guitar. So I just subscribe to the old " learn the theory then forget it" attitude. Common sense tells me that once this gels in my mind it will take my playing to new levels but I just cant apply it on the fly...I just play what comes naturally to me. Some would say dont worry about it, just play but I cant help but think im missing the boat because although my ear may be "correct", its letting me down with respect to consciously mixing the two sounds together.
Now having said that, if I had a dollar for every time Ive said " I will NEVER get this" Id have lots of cash...but the only way im going to do so is by osmosis as I keep playing. Seems the more I try to "get" it, the more confused I get
Its the same thing for me with counting out loud. Im like Rancid on this one...cant do it for the life of me and my time is better spent on cultivating my strengths (according to Griff and the Steve Vai video he sent
). Ive never had anyone in a jam tell me im out of time, I just feel the beat. Maybe as I learn to play faster it will be an issue but right now im not beating myself up about it. I cant sing and play at the same time and no doubt its all connected in some way, but I just don't see the correlation since you don't follow the beat when you sing anyway.
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That sounds right!
There are two ways to remember this.
There are two ways to remember this.
- Box 1 minor pentatonic. Your first note on the 6th string (low E string) is your root. Move your fingers toward the nut three frets and you're on the major pentatonic for the same key.
- Your relative minor is always the 6th of the major scale. F# is the relative minor of A major. So if you play Box 1 of the F# minor pentatonic, you are playing A major pentatonic.
david moon
Attempting the Blues
That's not going to happen, because Louie, Louie is written in a major key. The easiest way for you to hear the difference would be to play the three chords of Louie, Louie in major and then again in minor.
However, Louie, Louie is probably a bad example, because it follows neither of these and it isn't truly a 1-4-5. If it was, the Em would be E7. What happens instead is a progression using the the third (C#) of the I root (A) and the fifth (E), followed by the root of the IV chord (D) and third (F#) of the IV chord. Then the fifth (E) and seventh (G) of the I (A) chord. But the bass line is playing the root of the I (A), the IV (D) and the V (E).
- In A Major, the chords would be A - D - E7
- In A Minor, the chords would be Am - Dm - Em
Here it is in G(major).
The top two strings are playing:
If you play them that way, which is what the organ plays on the Kingsmen version, that's not a 1-4-5.
- B and D (third and fifth of a G root)
- C and E (Root and third of a C root)
- D and F (fifth and 7th of a C root)
However, the bass is playing a 1-4-5.
I was trying to figure out how to understand the Dm from a theory standpoint. I think you got it although for your third bullet I think you meant "(fifth and 7th of a G root)"
Also I think you're missing an eighth rest on the 4& of the first measure.Both should look the same.
And then the light bulb lit up and these voicings are very similar to Ex 2.5 in 52 Rhythm variations. I posted a recording in that topic recently. Check it out and see if you agree.
The voicings are
XX343X
XX555X
XX576X
David, you are correct on both counts. I wasn't paying full attention when I wrote the notation and I forgot that Guitar Pro will let you make an incomplete first bar.
And the third bullet should indeed say the fifth and 7th of a G root.
Thanks for correcting that.
david moon
Attempting the Blues
No problem- just thought it might confuse others.
I'll first apologize because I haven't read every word of this whole thread but there is a lot of AWESOME info here...
There are a couple of things I didn't see (and if I missed them, I'm sorry):
1. Louie Louie isn't in the key of G major or G minor from a technical standpoint. With a Dminor chord it can't be G major because V chords are major (and D is the V of the key of G.)
So G major is what we'll call the tonal center which makes a lot more sense. When a song is based around a G major but isn't actually in the key of G, it's more accurate to say that G is the tonal center.
Sweet Home Alabama works the same way to me - the tonal center is D (that's the main chord) but the key is really G major. You might hear that differently but that's how I think about it.
If G were IV in that progression, we'd be in the key of D and D would be major - so that's out.
If G were V in that progression, we'd be in the key of C and D would be minor - so officially (as in, by the key signature) it's in the key of C.
2. The actual key that it's in doesn't matter much because if you're soloing over it the tonal center is more important. (and the corollary to that which is that pentatonic and blues scales aren't that picky...)
If I was soloing over this tune I'd use a lot of G minor and maybe some G major blues. Either will work... and here's why:
Level 1 blues soloing: use the minor pentatonic/blues scale based off the tonal center. Tonal center is G, play G minor blues the whole time. It'll work, and it'll sound good.
Fancier idea: 1) we are in the key of C so 2) G is the V chord and 3) V chords are major and 4) this doesn't ever change keys so one scale would work and 5) G Major Pentatonic is the best pentatonic/blues scale that matches the tonal center.
That probably clears very little up, but if any of it makes sense it might turn some light bulbs on.
There are a couple of things I didn't see (and if I missed them, I'm sorry):
1. Louie Louie isn't in the key of G major or G minor from a technical standpoint. With a Dminor chord it can't be G major because V chords are major (and D is the V of the key of G.)
So G major is what we'll call the tonal center which makes a lot more sense. When a song is based around a G major but isn't actually in the key of G, it's more accurate to say that G is the tonal center.
Sweet Home Alabama works the same way to me - the tonal center is D (that's the main chord) but the key is really G major. You might hear that differently but that's how I think about it.
If G were IV in that progression, we'd be in the key of D and D would be major - so that's out.
If G were V in that progression, we'd be in the key of C and D would be minor - so officially (as in, by the key signature) it's in the key of C.
2. The actual key that it's in doesn't matter much because if you're soloing over it the tonal center is more important. (and the corollary to that which is that pentatonic and blues scales aren't that picky...)
If I was soloing over this tune I'd use a lot of G minor and maybe some G major blues. Either will work... and here's why:
Level 1 blues soloing: use the minor pentatonic/blues scale based off the tonal center. Tonal center is G, play G minor blues the whole time. It'll work, and it'll sound good.
Fancier idea: 1) we are in the key of C so 2) G is the V chord and 3) V chords are major and 4) this doesn't ever change keys so one scale would work and 5) G Major Pentatonic is the best pentatonic/blues scale that matches the tonal center.
That probably clears very little up, but if any of it makes sense it might turn some light bulbs on.
Strick
Blues Newbie
Wow! I realize Griff is a busy man and I'm impressed that he jumped in and helped us out. Because of this thread, I've removed myself from what I thought I was , an intermediate level guitarist, back to beginner. It seems the more I learn about music theory, the more I realize I don't know very much at all. BUT that's not stopping me as I still think this theory stuff is so interesting. Because of this thread I have been exposed to new terms to me, like tonal center, relative minor, circle of fifths and more. There seems to be so much information on music theory. Would Griff's course on music theory be a good start to understanding all that was covered here on this thread? And I thought a music major in college was like underwater basket weaving, boy was I wrong.
dvs
Green Mountain Blues
Absolutely, yes.
@Strick it certainly does sound like you have the theory bug so I think the theory course would scratch that itch for you.
There many great guitar players who "don't know theory" but somehow know intuitively through experience how to construct songs, solo in the right key, and many other things that we often attribute to having a theory background.
So while you may be new to theory, that doesn't make you less of a guitar player - but with the theory you may feel more of a musician overall. It's great to be able to sit down at a piano and play some chords and even a simple solo because I know how music works, not because I'm a piano player.
There many great guitar players who "don't know theory" but somehow know intuitively through experience how to construct songs, solo in the right key, and many other things that we often attribute to having a theory background.
So while you may be new to theory, that doesn't make you less of a guitar player - but with the theory you may feel more of a musician overall. It's great to be able to sit down at a piano and play some chords and even a simple solo because I know how music works, not because I'm a piano player.
