Finding the Key

JKopala1954

Blues Newbie
I have complained here before about the way most jam tracks found everywhere are named.  They  never give you a hint of what key they are in.  I have received all sorts of explanations and advice.  It still amounted to hunting and pecking along the neck until you 'find' it.

I have  found a better solution,  and I have not seen it here or anywhere.

Download a tuning appl to you phone,  one that has an autotuning option. Start the appl in autotune,  start the track.  The appl starts spitting out the keys.  This cuts the time down to seconds instead of minutes. It is not always perfect,  but it gets you REAL CLOSE. Less H&P, more Playin.
 

Dr. Ron

Nuthin’ But The Blues!
Thanks Gonzo.  I checked it out.  It seems cool.  i personally
take finding the key to a song as a personal challenge and do the "hunt and peck" just to prove i can do it as well as improve my ear.  Some of us are masochists.
Ron
 

Blues_Man

Blues Newbie
kudos on your creativity

but


you really must put the time in to hear so you can develop your own ear ! !  !

the sooner the better why put it off ;)
 

giayank

Just another day in paradise
In the key of G in a I-IV- V progression we have the notes G,C and D . In the key of E .we have E-A-B . The only note missing is F .What I do is play an E note to see if it fits in the progression . If it doesn't I play a G . If that doesn't sound right I play an F . When I find the note that sounds like it fits in the progression I then try to determine what position it is in in the progression . From there I find the I chord .By playing the E,G and F notes we cover the 7 keys . You may have to sharp or flat to zero in on it but by playing those three notes you can cover a lot of songs .
 

FishKiller

Blues Newbie
kudos on your creativity

but


you really must put the time in to hear so you can develop your own ear ! !  !

[glow=yellow,2,300]the sooner the better why put it off[/glow] ;)
+ 1 on developing your ear. Developing your ear will help alot with your soloing.

Carlos
 

Cam_Thompson

Blues Newbie
In the key of G in a I-IV- V progression we have the notes G,C and D . In the key of E .we have E-A-B . The only note missing is F .What I do is play an E note to see if it fits in the progression . If it doesn't I play a G . If that doesn't sound right I play an F . When I find the note that sounds like it fits in the progression I then try to determine what position it is in in the progression . From there I find the I chord .By playing the E,G and F notes we cover the 7 keys . You may have to sharp or flat to zero in on it but by playing those three notes you can cover a lot of songs .

HOLY COW - really, this is all I need to do? Thanks for sharing man, I mean, its these little pearls of wisdom and knowledge that make getting involved in the message board worthwhile  :)

Thank you, I am going to try this little trick!  [smiley=beer.gif]

Cam
 

Blues_Man

Blues Newbie
what i did (still do) put on a fav album and try to find the Root and have fun playing along!

best string is the 6th string,

once you have that the Root,

IV chord is same fret one string down (5th string)and the V chord same string as the IV
but 2 frets higher,

once your see that I IV V pattern from the 6th string
that pattern never changes regardless off key!!

enjoy
 
B

Bolar

Guest
Since good musicians are 80% ear & 20% fingers or something like that, you won't get very far without eartraining. It's importent to develope a good relative pitch ( perfect pitch isn't all that usefull, especially since it's genetic, so either you got it or you don't ). Eartraining is often considered a hard and boring task, so many avoid it as much as possible.
Until you get there, any tool/ trick is fine, just don't rely on them for life.
Good relative pitch means mastering the intervals, and it will tell pretty much everything that goes on in the music, doesn't matter if you're a listener or active musician.

What have helped me a lot in order to determine the root of a chord is this:
Play any note, if it sounds good, I'm in the right key. If it sounds false, move one half step up or down and we're in the right key.
Next, try to hear if its part of the chord or not, and if it's not, at least one of the two notes a whole step away is.
If both of those notes are present in the chord, we have found a major third interval of the chord, and if only one of the notes are present, we have found a minor third ( the one that fits the chord and the one a minor third up, if it's the low or down if it's the high). Since common chords are build from thirds, the rest shouldn't be too hard. Hope it helps.
 

ronico

rainyislandblues
Since I only have an older dumbphone an app is not an option. Usually H&P on the E or mid fretbord. Getting a little quicker I think.
 

Marv

I play 'err' guitar.
Not knocking H&P on the E... it's what I usually do. But a guitar tuner will do the same thing as the app... you probably have one and your phone can stay dumb.
 

brent

Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.
It's importent to develope a good relative pitch ( perfect pitch isn't all that usefull, especially since it's genetic, so either you got it or you don't ).

Contrary to popular belief, perfect pitch is not genetic. One can acquire it. It takes a different kind of ear training than relative pitch does. Also, I would say perfect pitch isn't useful. For instance being able to tune your instrument without out a tuner is a good skill. As is being able to start out singing on key without a relative note to relate to. Especially in a song that starts out acapella.
 
B

Bolar

Guest
It's importent to develope a good relative pitch ( perfect pitch isn't all that usefull, especially since it's genetic, so either you got it or you don't ).

Contrary to popular belief, perfect pitch is not genetic. One can acquire it. It takes a different kind of ear training than relative pitch does. Also, I would say perfect pitch isn't useful. For instance being able to tune your instrument without out a tuner is a good skill. As is being able to start out singing on key without a relative note to relate to. Especially in a song that starts out acapella.

Just to clarify a bit. The ability to accurately recognize and reproduce a tone is often called perfect pitch. This is not entirely true. It is not one, but two very different phenomenons. Perfect pitch is the most precise of the two. Recent studies suggest, that it might be trainable in early childhood, but it's not conclusive. So far every single attempt to teach perfect pitch has failed, which means, that seeing perfect pitch as a genetic defined talent still stands. Perfect pitch seems to have some relations to autism spectrum disorders. This does not mean, that one has to be autistic to have perfect pitch, but some personality characteristics often seen in people with autism are present. It does not have to be characteristics that are part of the diagnose. So people can have perfect pitch and be quite normal in any other respect. The brain of people with perfect pitch are a bit different from others, which can be reveiled during a scanning. Cortex for one, is thicker than normal in various places.
The other ability, usually called "pseudo absolute pitch" can be trained. I guess many of us already have experienced it, even if it's in a small way. When I started playing guitar, I used a tuning fork. It didn't take long before I could tune it without the tuning fork, I had the "A" in my head somewhere. Others might be able to recognize and sing the low "E", as it often is the tone we hear the most. These things can be trained to a degree, where it becomes pretty close to perfect pitch, and even though it will never be as precise it is still very useful. Many people are not aware of the difference and see the two things as the same thing and, incorrectly, calling it "perfect pitch", which can lead to misunderstandings - we may think we are talking about the same, but could in fact be talking about two different things. That is not so uncommon - we have all done it and will probably do it again on another subject  ;). Add to that, that when someone is advertising for an eartraining course, even if it's an excellent one, "perfect" is a word they want to use, "pseudo" is a word they most likely will try to avoid.
So in short, I do agree, it's just giving two very different things the same name, I'm not happy with.
 

henryj

Blues Newbie
I knew a guy years ago who had a music store / studio.  He told me perfect pitch was a hindrance.  He knew one person with perfect pitch and he always had a hard time because nothing sounded right to him. To him two like instruments could get close, but not exactly, and as far as two different instruments playing the same note, it wasn't going to happen to his ear. An entire band was an assault on his ears.  Perfect pitch prevented him from being any better than just a good musician because he couldn't really hear the music.
 

brent

Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.
It's importent to develope a good relative pitch ( perfect pitch isn't all that usefull, especially since it's genetic, so either you got it or you don't ).

Contrary to popular belief, perfect pitch is not genetic. One can acquire it. It takes a different kind of ear training than relative pitch does. Also, I would say perfect pitch isn't useful. For instance being able to tune your instrument without out a tuner is a good skill. As is being able to start out singing on key without a relative note to relate to. Especially in a song that starts out acapella.

Just to clarify a bit. The ability to accurately recognize and reproduce a tone is often called perfect pitch. This is not entirely true. It is not one, but two very different phenomenons. Perfect pitch is the most precise of the two. Recent studies suggest, that it might be trainable in early childhood, but it's not conclusive. So far every single attempt to teach perfect pitch has failed, which means, that seeing perfect pitch as a genetic defined talent still stands. Perfect pitch seems to have some relations to autism spectrum disorders. This does not mean, that one has to be autistic to have perfect pitch, but some personality characteristics often seen in people with autism are present. It does not have to be characteristics that are part of the diagnose. So people can have perfect pitch and be quite normal in any other respect. The brain of people with perfect pitch are a bit different from others, which can be reveiled during a scanning. Cortex for one, is thicker than normal in various places.
The other ability, usually called "pseudo absolute pitch" can be trained. I guess many of us already have experienced it, even if it's in a small way. When I started playing guitar, I used a tuning fork. It didn't take long before I could tune it without the tuning fork, I had the "A" in my head somewhere. Others might be able to recognize and sing the low "E", as it often is the tone we hear the most. These things can be trained to a degree, where it becomes pretty close to perfect pitch, and even though it will never be as precise it is still very useful. Many people are not aware of the difference and see the two things as the same thing and, incorrectly, calling it "perfect pitch", which can lead to misunderstandings - we may think we are talking about the same, but could in fact be talking about two different things. That is not so uncommon - we have all done it and will probably do it again on another subject  ;). Add to that, that when someone is advertising for an eartraining course, even if it's an excellent one, "perfect" is a word they want to use, "pseudo" is a word they most likely will try to avoid.
So in short, I do agree, it's just giving two very different things the same name, I'm not happy with.

I'll not argue semantics with you. Nobody wins that argument. Further this is a music forum. Music is an art not a science. In science "perfect" doesn't really exist. In art, it exists everywhere.  :)
 
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