questions about licks

B

bouncer

Guest
The example of the licks gives two bars. If I play that lick for example for 4 bars, where do I go for the IV_V chords. I've played country/rock for a lot of years. I am now retired and trying to learn something new. I understand chord progression, but not the lead progression. Thus my question.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Charlie
 

wgabree

Blues Newbie
How are you planning on extending a 2 bar lick into 4 bars?  Are you going to play it twice or are you going to change the duration of the notes?

Also, if it does extend over chords it wasn't intended to be played over, it may conflict with notes in those chords.  It really depends on those licks.

At any rate, it's hard to discuss this in the abstract without the actual lick in question.

Which course of Griffs' are you working on right now?

:cool:

PS Head on over to the Introduce Yourself board and say hello! ;-)
 

Griff

Vice Assistant General Manager
Staff member
Wayne said it well...

Without knowing how you intend to extend the lick it's tough to answer.

If you're going to double all the note values - effectively play it half as fast over 4 bars instead of regular speed over 2 bars - you'll need to pay close attention to the note that you strike on the down beat when the  chords change.

That spot is the "money note" and you may find that you need to change that note to fit the chord better. You may not also... you'll just have to try it out and see if you like it.

If you are just going to play the lick twice, it may fit just fine over the IV and V chords like it does over the I chord. The blues scale is very forgiving and it's entirely possible it will just work.

Griff
 

MikeS

Student Of The Blues
Staff member
The example of the licks gives two bars. If I play that lick for example for 4 bars, where do I go for the IV_V chords. I've played country/rock for a lot of years. I am now retired and trying to learn something new. I understand chord progression, but not the lead progression. Thus my question.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Charlie

Yeah, it depends on what example you are referring to. If it stays within say box one of the minor pentatonic, then you can noodle around those note for all the chords. It will eventually get boring, but you can do it. Griff's BGU will teach you to use more of the fretboard and to use a Major sound over the I chord and minor over IV and V.
 
B

bouncer

Guest
Thanks for your help. Let me see if I understand. If I noodle for the I chord in a major scale I can use any of the notes in that scale,then I move to the minor scale and can I still use any of the notes for the IV & V chords? I am having trouble in getting my head around this.

Thanks

Charlie
 

MikeS

Student Of The Blues
Staff member
Not exactly. I said use the Major scale (pentatonic) over the I chord  and the minor (pentatonic) over the IV & V.
Box one of the minor pentatonic can be used over(during) the I, IV or V, but a more advanced technique would be to play Box II over the I chord then Box I over the  IV & V.
Assuming you are playing in the key of A, you could play this pattern over the I chord

fret:1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8
|----|----|----|----|--o-|----|--o-|--o-|
|----|----|----|----|--o-|----|--o-|----|
|----|----|----|--o-|--o-|--o-|----|----|
|----|----|----|--o-|----|----|--o-|----|
|----|----|----|--o-|----|----|--o-|----|
|----|----|----|----|--o-|----|----|----|


And this pattern (and subsequent boxes, if you know them) over the IV & V
fret:1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8
|----|----|----|----|--o-|----|----|--o-|
|----|----|----|----|--o-|----|----|--o-|
|----|----|----|----|--o-|----|--o-|--o-|
|----|----|----|----|--o-|----|--o-|----|
|----|----|----|----|--o-|--o-|--o-|----|
|----|----|----|----|--o-|----|----|--o-|


Clear as mud???
 
B

bouncer

Guest
Thanks Griff, Wayne. You bring more questions. What does it matter if you play it twice or make small changes on the last 2 bars? Or you put 2 different licks in the same key? Let's say you play the first 4 bars in a major key lets say E. Then when you move to the IV chord, how,what, do you go to? I know you play the minor scale. I guess I'm in over my head. 
Wayne, I am on lesson #6 of BGU. Trying to get the new chords(for me)timing right. I am checking out lesson #15. All my playing life have been just the major chords with a 7th and 9th once in a while.
Again thanks for you help.
Chas
 

wgabree

Blues Newbie
The short answer is it may or may not make a difference.  It depends on the riff and the chord progression in question.

Reason?  Not all notes are going to work over a chord - the note may clash with a note in the chord in a way that some would consider objectionable.

That said, if you are playing over a standard blues progression, it's hard to go wrong with the blues scale or minor pentatonic scale (which is the same as the blues scale with the exception that it has one less note - the b5).  Reason:  the notes in that scale clash in ways that are acceptable to us.

The major blues scale or major pentatonic has some trickier conflicts and may not work over the IV and V unless you understand what notes are in the chords and what the strong beats are, etc.

If this doesn't make sense, don't worry.  Just continue with the course.  It guides you through soloing in a way that is going to work for blues.

Getting in depth on the forum is a difficult trick, because there are a lot details that need to be understood before you can even begin to discuss it.

If you're looking to gain a better understanding of the language of music (music theory), Griff has a great Theory course.  It starts from the ground up without assuming you know anything.  By the end you'll have a much better understanding of where chords come from and why some notes work better than others for soloing.

Cheers!

:cool:
 
B

bouncer

Guest
Thanks every one. I'll hand in and wait for the light to go on.

Chas
 

MikeS

Student Of The Blues
Staff member
Chas,
If we're not getting what you are driving at, please let us know. I'm sure that someone here can help. Don't give up on us.
 
B

bouncer

Guest
tks Mike, but I'll do what Wayne suggest and continue the course and see how it turns out. There's just a lot that I don't get. i.e. little chords, chords sub.,ect. So lets see if an old dog can learn new tricks.

Thanks

Chas.
 
L

Lame_Pinkey

Guest
yeah get further into it charlie & let it develop of its own soon enough you'll understand it.

LP
 

kayakman50

Blues Newbie
Howzit Charlie1 and all,
Big Mahalo for the explanation. I think that I just had an AHA (not the fish) moment! I'm on lunch right now but will try Mike's box 2 over the 1 chord when I get home. Seems too easy. I too am working on the 1&2 solos. This will help. C1, with your previous experience, I think that this'll kick in right quick. Good luck.
K50
 

Marv

I play 'err' guitar.
Howzit Charlie1 and all,
Big Mahalo for the explanation. I think that I just had an AHA (not the fish) moment! I'm on lunch right now but will try Mike's box 2 over the 1 chord when I get home. [glow=yellow,2,300]Seems too easy.[/glow] I too am working on the 1&2 solos. This will help. C1, with your previous experience, I think that this'll kick in right quick. Good luck.
K50

Looks like we've been covering the same topic in a couple of different places today:

http://bluesguitarunleashed.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1340482873/6#6

I guess this is a good place for me to confirm that my understanding is correct.  From Mike's comments here, I think that it is...
 

anthonyp

Blues Newbie
I love this place! with every question someone asks i learn something new that helps me see things a little more clearly! thanks to all!
[smiley=beer.gif] [smiley=beer.gif]
 

Thatman

Playin' for the fun of it.
......but a more advanced technique would be to play Box II over the I chord then Box I over the  IV & V.........

I did not know that.  :-?

Cheers Mike  :)
 

kayakman50

Blues Newbie
Howzit,
Yeah, I love this place too! Thanks Marv, I checked out your link. This "pattern" thing making some sense now.Mahalo.
K50
 

kayakman50

Blues Newbie
Howzit ,
Been practising these major/minor concepts for the past 2 weeks and I think that I've got it. Sounds good. I've found a few places that the notes show up. Can I use any of the boxes as long as I start on A major note? Thanks for tips on box 2 (maj) over box 1 (min).
Mahalo,
K50
 

Jon3b

Blues Newbie
Howzit ,
Been practising these major/minor concepts for the past 2 weeks and I think that I've got it. Sounds good. I've found a few places that the notes show up. Can I use any of the boxes as long as I start on A major note? Thanks for tips on box 2 (maj) over box 1 (min).
Mahalo,
K50

  I'm going to take a stab at answering this as a way of testing my own knowledge and understanding gained from Griff's lessons. Here goes.. :-?
  Yes, you can start with any of the boxes over the one chord provided you're playing a scale in the appropriate key from the major perspective. Using the key of A, a major sound will use the B, C# and F# to define this orientation. In reality, you could play a series of notes from the minor pentatonic and simply end that phrase on any of those three notes to give the listener the impression of the major sound. This isn't how Griff has designed his lesson though. The lessons stay major for the I chord and minor for the IV and V, and for good reason. Your ear learns to recognise and direct you fingers towards one tonality or the other.
   I will urge you (all) to work through the solo lessons in the order presented and not jump too far ahead. Not only will you miss out on some highly useful licks, but you also risk missing out on some of the insights that can come with the lessons which will ultimately lead to better note choices when out playing 'off the cuff'.
[smiley=beer.gif]
 

Marv

I play 'err' guitar.
Good points, Jon. With "major/minor sound", Griff is giving us the information to sound great instead of just good.

One thing that makes the major/minor thing difficult, I think, is that most of us expect some huge difference in sound. In reality, the differences in sound are kind of subtle.

If we look at MikeS's diagrams above, many of the notes are identical and others are often just a half-step apart. Putting a "major" twist on things is often just a half-bend or a sliding note away. 

If we learn Griff's solos, we get these subtle enhancements for free.  We also learn how they sound.  "While it's great to know how to fish, when you're hungry, having one fish is pretty good." - Smokestack

Winging it, it's sometimes hard to know if we've accomplished the goal or not, but use of the proper pattern at the proper time will assure it is so, even if our ears aren't yet trained to detect it.  Having the right licks in the right spots and their corresponding sounds in our heads from the lessons can only help.
 
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