"What we'll be learning today,at Beginning of less

CJ_Allan

Blues Newbie
Well, This was absolutly useless............
I was thinking Griff would come in & adress the problem, but I see he don't care.........

Just carry on as usuall.......

This is why I'm gravitating toward Marty, David Taub, & Trufire, for instruction.......
They at least listen & work with their students.......

Don't know how much longer I'll be sendin monthly bucks for "Insiders"either..... .Not much happening there anymore anyway........
Started out Great.....

My time is limited 7I NEED to know what the hell I'm gonna learn in the beginning of a lesson.NOT @ the end........ :(

Ideal would be as someone posted here earlier.......
    *Here's what I going to teach you.

    *Teach in detail.

    *This is what I taught you.


But this ain't gonna happen...........

Have a Great Valentines Day Everyone..........
I'm Busy making & engraving Guitar Parts...... @ I'll learn regardless......Probably somewhere else.......... :)
 

KevenKanten

Blues Newbie
No vote from me either. I like both approaches. my focus is on the skills more than anything else so it just doesn't matter... but if I'm trying to learn a song, I do like to hear it first before getting into the little bits and pieces.

So far, its all working for me.
 

Chuck

Moderator (One of the Men in Black!)
Staff member
Well, This was absolutly useless............
I was thinking Griff would come in & adress the problem, but I see he don't care.........

Just carry on as usuall.......

This is why I'm gravitating toward Marty, David Taub, & Trufire, for instruction.......
They at least listen & work with their students.......

Don't know how much longer I'll be sendin monthly bucks for "Insiders"either..... .Not much happening there anymore anyway........
Started out Great.....

My time is limited 7I NEED to know what the hell I'm gonna learn in the beginning of a lesson.NOT @ the end........ :(

Ideal would be as someone posted here earlier.......
    *Here's what I going to teach you.

    *Teach in detail.

    *This is what I taught you.


But this ain't gonna happen...........

Have a Great Valentines Day Everyone..........
I'm Busy making & engraving Guitar Parts...... @ I'll learn regardless......Probably somewhere else.......... :)


Griff doesn't have time to read everything here on the Forum. If you have a personal request from Griff then there is a PM function that you can alert him to a post if you look for a personal reply.

Do not make the mistake of thinking he doesn't care because he hasn't followed or answered your post. He has a lot of students that do like the way he conducts his lessons and we appreciate the effort and attention he gives to us.

I told you early on in this post that he has already started doing instruction this way on a number of lessons. He may not do it on every lesson but he has posted several that are conducted the way you would like to see it.
 

CJ_Allan

Blues Newbie
Chuck,
I guess I'm Mostly disapointed in all those that DIDN'T Vote ....... :(

18 votes out of the 270 people that read this, is really disapointing...........

I've heard from a lot more guys that feel the same as I do, but didn't say any thing.............Bummer :)

Oh Well.....Not anything to lose sleep over..........!!
I turned 70 last Oct.......I really don't have time for any of this either.... :)
 

MikeS

Student Of The Blues
Staff member
I didn't vote because I don't care. I'm guessing that's what most of the readers felt too or they would have voted to change things.
His videos work for me either way.
 

stringbreaker

Blues Newbie
CJ, sorry to see you go.  I also learn from Marty, Bob Murnahan and Griff.  Each has his own quirks, but I just accept that and learn what I can.  I try not to put them on a pedestal, they are teachers and we learn from them.

I agree with your post about the learning techniques (I am an instructor in another discipline), but each teacher does their own thing....Griff may not do exactly like I want but I learn from him.  Especially the way he applies theory and discipline.

Marty can be spastic every once in awhile, but I like his light hearted way of teaching...

Bob is really less responsive then Griff and has a boring presentation, but a great teaching ability that works.

So I just learn something from each... ;)

I too am older but I make time and I dont do anything rash for at least 24 hours... ;D

m
 

CJ_Allan

Blues Newbie
I'm not leaving, just not wasting any more time on things that nobody cares about......
If Griff don't care.....Why should I.... ??

I have too much work to finish up.....
A Handful of Great Hand engraving students....
And a Hell of a lot more miles to put on Before i'm Through....... :)

Don't plan on wastin any more time than I already have.............
I'll Come out on top, No Matter What...... :)
 

Roger

Blues Newbie
One of my mentors said "it is okay to question the teacher".  I believe Griff is the kind of teacher who will listen and make changes if it benefits the students.  That is the mark of a great teacher.

Personally I like to hear what I am going to learn first...that helps to have the groove in my head.


+1
 

CJ_Allan

Blues Newbie
Hey RJ......I only Speak For Myself..........!!
But it would be NICE if He Spoke for Himself.....
or do you speak for Him.. ?? :)

Roger +2 :)
 

luckylarry

Student Of The Blues
I hope I didn't miss something, but I just listen to the whole lesson before I pick up the guitar. This way i know what the lesson is about, how to proceed and what to watch for.
Are people saying they don't like the lessons because Griff doesn't state what the lesson is about? If so try my method. Easy solution. I feel confident that you will get more out of the lesson by watching the whole lesson first than trying to learn it after some one says plays something and says this is what I am going to teach you. :)
 

luckylarry

Student Of The Blues
CJ, that is what I am saying. I used to just pick up the guitar and follow along. I did make progress but it was slow. By taking the time to listen first I can accomplish more; quicker. I have heard of some members that put the lesson in their car CD player or copy to iPod, etc. just to be able to listen.
I guess I look at the lesson as being usually no more than 20 minutes and to listen first saves a lot of time in applying the lesson so the total effect is my method I believe is a faster way to learn.
These are just suggestions and I hope that they will help. :)
 

stringbreaker

Blues Newbie
CJ, that is what I am saying. I used to just pick up the guitar and follow along. I did make progress but it was slow. By taking the time to listen first I can accomplish more; quicker. I have heard of some members that put the lesson in their car CD player or copy to iPod, etc. just to be able to listen.
I guess I look at the lesson as being usually no more than 20 minutes and to listen first saves a lot of time in applying the lesson so the total effect is my method I believe is a faster way to learn.
These are just suggestions and I hope that they will help. :)

+1 I will listen to the lesson multiple times...first to see what it is all about, then with the guitar and finally will do it several times even listen on the bus to work to see if I missed something...There is so much in the lessons....and then it is practice, practice, practice.

A good example is his Lesson 11 (I think that is the number) where he does BBKing Thrill is gone.  there is so much there between the chord shapes, the lead in the middle, the quiet spaces etc...I am still listening to it... :cool:
 

Spencer

Blues Newbie
CJ, that is what I am saying. I used to just pick up the guitar and follow along. I did make progress but it was slow. By taking the time to listen first I can accomplish more; quicker. I have heard of some members that put the lesson in their car CD player or copy to iPod, etc. just to be able to listen.
I guess I look at the lesson as being usually no more than 20 minutes and to listen first saves a lot of time in applying the lesson so the total effect is my method I believe is a faster way to learn.
These are just suggestions and I hope that they will help. :)

+1 I will listen to the lesson multiple times...first to see what it is all about, then with the guitar and finally will do it several times even listen on the bus to work to see if I missed something...There is so much in the lessons....and then it is practice, practice, practice.

A good example is his Lesson 11 (I think that is the number) where he does BBKing Thrill is gone.  there is so much there between the chord shapes, the lead in the middle, the quiet spaces etc...I am still listening to it... :cool:

You guys don't get it. He's not talking about the courses or the dvd's. He's talking about the lessons that Griff emails, lessons on his blog, or the "Insiders" lessons.
    
       Here's the point, let's say you have 10 minutes over lunch and I want to check out a technique or pick something out that I want to work on later. There's a TON of videos with various lessons, riff's/licks, and styles, intro's, all that stuff.
      
         If you're trying to find something you want to learn it can get a little annoying having to try to drag the curser all over just to hear an example and then if you are working on playing along, it's much easier to just start the vid all over which personally I do a lot and watch it tons of times.
         
      I'm not criticizing, I just wonder this as well. I'm not sure if it's just technically harder to add an example to the front or what. I just know that all other reputable online instructers use the tactic, and when I'm picking out something I want to play I can listen to 20 different Marty songs or 20 different licks that Anthony at steviesnacks is teaching in the time I can watch or find the example in Griff's video. Now Griff also offers things that no one else does! His full course are THE BEST EVER! This is just about the short 10 minute youtube video type stuff. 

       Yes, I know I can drag the curser over... I also know how to drive a stick and roll up a window by hand, but I prefer an automatic with power windows.
       
       I own ALL of Griff's courses and will continue to buy them. He's the best "school" type instructer there is. Of course at the end it's up to him, and I'm fine with it!
    :) :) :)
 

MikeS

Student Of The Blues
Staff member
CJ, I'm pretty sure that Chuck said it above, but it's worth repeating: Griff has admitted time and time again that while he tries to read as much of the forum as he can, there is no guarantee that he will happen to read your post. Getting upset because he doesn't happen to read yours is foolish and unproductive. If it's important to you. send him a PM. He WILL read that and respond. It would be a good idea to include a link to this thread in your PM.
 

cowboy

Blues, Booze & BBQ
I'll jump in on this....

it's more about matching learning styles with teaching styles....I'd cover this in depth but it would be boring... Griff does use a combination of "frontloading" and "backwards learning" along with covering some of the multiple intellegences: spatial, linguistic, logical-mathematical, bodily-kinesthetic, musical, interpersonal, intrapersonal, and naturalistic.  There are tons of articles written on this...feel free to do some reading if you are interested.. :-?

Even in teaching tennis I simplify it and use a visual, kinesthetic, and auditory learning approach(s)... :)...better known as the KISS principle... ;)

The only important question is: Does it match up well with your learning style?  or.... Does Griff make it "easy" for you to learn?

I've always wanted to ask Griff if Laura has provided much input into his courses or is it just his "natural" style?  Maybe I'll get a chance in Corona....Good teaching is far more than having a degree...ask any good teacher and you'll get a smile...later.

cowboy
 

Cyberthrasher_706

Blues Newbie
Spencer nailed the issue right on. Like I said before, it doesn't matter to me either way, so that's why I'm supporting it. But, having a sample of what the end result is going to help people decide quickly if they want to spend the time on that lesson.
 

Griff

Vice Assistant General Manager
Staff member
Hi All,

I'm so sorry it's taken me so long to reply to this thread. I did not see it and Chuck brought it to my attention yesterday... but I hesitated on answering because I was really thinking about the best way to answer to it.

It is definitely true that the forum has expanded to the point where I simply don't get to read everything. In fact, I admit I probably don't get to read a lot of things. In particular I miss the days when I could listen to every single recording and comment.

Fortunately, there are a lot of great people here and great players as well. People with years of experience that can often answer a question using nearly the exact same words that I would use :)

The "not playing the lesson at the beginning first" tactic is something that I've fought for years and here is why I often do not do it:

If you are a private student... when I play something and you hear it, you'll instantly get an idea in your head of how it is supposed to go.

Your ear will assign certain notes to certain beats - and they will be wrong. And I will spend the next half an hour trying to fix that one little thing.

If it's in a video, it'll never get fixed because unless you are willing to count the lesson out and find the mistake in your initial interpretation and work past it... well it just stays wrong.


For more advanced students with a better trained ear this is not so much of a problem. But for the bulk of the people I teach, it's a real stumbling block.

I realize that we live in a world where the 3 step system is important:
1. Show them what you're going to teach them
2. Teach them
3. Tell them what you taught them.

That's a good way to sell stuff... it's not a good way to actually make better guitar players. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but that's the truth.

The other part of this is the fact that in many cases, I'm teaching something you've probably heard before. If I'm teaching the "Born Under a Bad Sign" riff... well you've heard that probably so I'd rather not play it at the top and bring back your (likely) flawed recollection of it.

Believe me, I care very much about this. I spend 95% of my time thinking about how I can better serve this community and actually make better guitar players - not just guys who can play a few riffs, but aren't in any better position to get up and jam at the local bar.

Guys like Marty, David, etc., are not bad guys and they are teaching in their way. I definitely know that Marty, in particular, is extremely popular.

I also know that those guys are not always teaching what needs to be taught. And I know this both from seeing their materials, and from the emails I get from people who have bought those courses and then realized this down the road and come over here.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to put anyone down. I know Marty, Dan, Bob, David, and many of those guys pretty well. Everyone's got their thing and it works for some group of people.

I've always tried to be the guy who catered to people who really want to learn to be better guitarists and musicians. The youtube stuff is all about something quick that you can learn in 10 minutes.

While that is a diversion for 10 minutes, it's not really the right way to tackle the problem... assuming the problem is really becoming a better guitar player.

And while it's not a big deal to do that once in a while, if it's something you're doing every day, you might want to ask yourself why, and what you're really looking for?

I have started trying to show the riff or lesson first in some of my more recent youtube videos. I may not have done that in the Insiders stuff because much of that was filmed some time ago.

On the DVDs, if you want to see the lesson first, just navigate to the play along first, and then you'll see what you'll be learning. That's easy.

Honestly what concerns me the most about all of this is that I didn't realize how much people here on this forum were spending time on youtube grabbing quick little lessons...

If you only have 10 minutes to do something:
* play a lick in one of the solos in your DVD course that's giving you trouble. If you don't have it memorized... well then there's part of the problem
* spend the 10 minutes listening to the tune on CD or on your ipod or whatever. Listening is a HUGE part of learning to play. In the "old days" before the internet we would listen to an example for days or weeks as we tried to learn it. That time is very well spent.
* work on some of the theory exercises if you have them
* throw on a jam track and just noodle over it - this is probably the best way to kill 10 minutes I know of.
* watch the next lesson on the DVD while your fingers run scale patterns. You don't need to focus on your fingers (hopefully) so you can easily see what's to come on the DVD while you do that.
* Try to figure out a song or riff by ear. That's 100 times more useful to you than learning it from somebody on youtube - and I can tell you that for any song I look up, 9 out of 10 people are playing it and teaching it wrong. Same goes for ultimate-guitar.com tabs.

I'm running out of available characters for my post, but I hope you all take the time to read it and think about it.

The real problem is not whether or not the little freebie lessons on youtube are any good... it's why you're looking there in the first place and what to do about that.
Griff

PS - I welcome responses and opinions here. Discussion is good :)
 
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