Anyone else shocked by Gibson's lower prices?

deejaid

Blues Junior
After last years screw up by Gibson, raising their prices by 29%, 1.87" nut widths, changed body shapes, etc, I am shocked to see what Gibson's are priced at this year. I have been looking for something a little different than my humbucker Les Paul, and while I contemplated a Tele, I am really a Gibson guy.

I checked out Gibson's site on a whim and see a new 2016 Firebird is $1099! 2014 and prior, Firebirds were $1500, then last year $2000. Now $1099! It's such a good price I think to myself, where did they cut corners to get the price that low?

I need to see one of these in person because at that price I might be able to actually afford one.

Anyone else surprised by the big price drop and if you bought a 2016 Gibson have you noticed any drop in quality?
 

mountain man

Still got the Blues!
After last years screw up by Gibson, raising their prices by 29%, 1.87" nut widths, changed body shapes, etc, I am shocked to see what Gibson's are priced at this year. I have been looking for something a little different than my humbucker Les Paul, and while I contemplated a Tele, I am really a Gibson guy.

I checked out Gibson's site on a whim and see a new 2016 Firebird is $1099! 2014 and prior, Firebirds were $1500, then last year $2000. Now $1099! It's such a good price I think to myself, where did they cut corners to get the price that low?

I need to see one of these in person because at that price I might be able to actually afford one.

Anyone else surprised by the big price drop and if you bought a 2016 Gibson have you noticed any drop in quality?
I wasn't aware of it............ but I will look closer now!! :thumbup:
 

Chuck

Moderator (One of the Men in Black!)
Staff member
I have always been a Gibson fan. I'm glad they dropped the prices.
 

jackderby52

Prehistoric blues knob (not newbie)
I recently read an article Gibson is facing financial issues meeting their financial obligations.. So maybe in order to do so, they are attempting to drum up sales by cutting prices...
 

Norfolk Bill

norfolk uk, just knoodling along
They had to really very over priced for what they are, had several sold them on , got better or equivalent guitars at much lower cost now
 

mountain man

Still got the Blues!
When I looked at the Gibson website yesterday I noticed that the guitars with lower prices did not have the trapezoidal finger board inlays and were not there top of the line guitars. There top of the line guitars are still over $2K. The new Les Paul is close to $3K. I did not see any Artist Signature guitars.
 
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amv74

Blues Newbie
After last years screw up by Gibson, raising their prices by 29%, 1.87" nut widths, changed body shapes, etc, I am shocked to see what Gibson's are priced at this year. I have been looking for something a little different than my humbucker Les Paul, and while I contemplated a Tele, I am really a Gibson guy.

I checked out Gibson's site on a whim and see a new 2016 Firebird is $1099! 2014 and prior, Firebirds were $1500, then last year $2000. Now $1099! It's such a good price I think to myself, where did they cut corners to get the price that low?

I need to see one of these in person because at that price I might be able to actually afford one.

Anyone else surprised by the big price drop and if you bought a 2016 Gibson have you noticed any drop in quality?
I think the SGs dropped too, I might stalk a few or wait for a nice used one to show up.
 

panther

Blues Newbie
Sooner or later, Gibson, Martin et.al, are going to have to come to the realization, with as much competition in the manufacturing market today, people are beginning to catch on that SOME manufacturers prices are very inflated.
Why pay $2000.00 for a guitar, when you can buy a nice, upgrade-able similar guitar for under $500.00.
What I find ironic is, Gibson is doing exactly that with their Epiphone line. Practically clones of Gibson, when upgraded are great instruments.

Dan
 

mountain man

Still got the Blues!
Sooner or later, Gibson, Martin et.al, are going to have to come to the realization, with as much competition in the manufacturing market today, people are beginning to catch on that SOME manufacturers prices are very inflated.
Why pay $2000.00 for a guitar, when you can buy a nice, upgrade-able similar guitar for under $500.00.
What I find ironic is, Gibson is doing exactly that with their Epiphone line. Practically clones of Gibson, when upgraded are great instruments.

Dan
The other thing that can happen is the trade deals with other countries may very well raise the tariffs requiring the those dealers selling those items to raise the prices. This will effect all imported goods and not just guitars. It very well may bring back jobs. Which is what this country desperately needs. Instead of Gov give-away's lifestyles. Tell you more about it mid November.
 

deejaid

Blues Junior
Many of the Les Pauls are still in the $2-3000 range, there seems to be some models that are really lower priced though. As I mentioned before the Firebird is cheaper than it was before the price increase last year and like amv74 said it looks like the SG is cheaper too.

And this Studio 50's is only $899 if you forgo th gforce tuners.

http://www.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/2016/USA/Les-Paul-50s-Tribute.aspx#LPST5HTHDCH3

I saw one of the 70's tribute firebird models a few years ago at guitar center and was not impressed, but these lower end models look pretty good, although I've yet to see them in person.


I haven't bought a new guitar since I got my first one, all used since then. I always thought I'd have to buy used to afford a Gibson but it seems they are closing the gap between the upper end Epiphones and the lower end Gibson's.
 

jackderby52

Prehistoric blues knob (not newbie)
Sooner or later, Gibson, Martin et.al, are going to have to come to the realization, with as much competition in the manufacturing market today, people are beginning to catch on that SOME manufacturers prices are very inflated.
Why pay $2000.00 for a guitar, when you can buy a nice, upgrade-able similar guitar for under $500.00.
What I find ironic is, Gibson is doing exactly that with their Epiphone line. Practically clones of Gibson, when upgraded are great instruments.

Dan
Sure they can do it.. Have em manufactured in china and close down the USA factory... :)....
 

kestrou

Blooze Noobie
Sure they can do it.. Have em manufactured in china and close down the USA factory... :)....

Yup... Far and away the largest part of the cost is labor...

Compare prices of Gibson to other made-in-USA brands like Music Man, PRS, etc - not Carvin that has no dustributor in the middle - and the "standard model" guitars are all fairly evenly priced. Of course all manufacturers have their high end (PRS Dragon, etc) - Gibson just has many of those.

If you like'em, buy'em. If it's too much coin to you for US made then employ labor somewhere else...

Kevin
 
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mountain man

Still got the Blues!
Many of the Les Pauls are still in the $2-3000 range, there seems to be some models that are really lower priced though. As I mentioned before the Firebird is cheaper than it was before the price increase last year and like amv74 said it looks like the SG is cheaper too.

And this Studio 50's is only $899 if you forgo th gforce tuners.

http://www.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/2016/USA/Les-Paul-50s-Tribute.aspx#LPST5HTHDCH3

I saw one of the 70's tribute firebird models a few years ago at guitar center and was not impressed, but these lower end models look pretty good, although I've yet to see them in person.


I haven't bought a new guitar since I got my first one, all used since then. I always thought I'd have to buy used to afford a Gibson but it seems they are closing the gap between the upper end Epiphones and the lower end Gibson's.
Unfortunately both the Explorer and the Firebird have the ceramic pups. The Flying V has Alnico II magnets. What can I say? I've already got a semi hollow body, an SG and 2 LP's so I started looking at the Johnny Winter shape which led m to looking at the other odd shapes. If I get another Gibson it won't have ceramic pups. Look closely folks!! :cautious:
 

deejaid

Blues Junior
Unfortunately both the Explorer and the Firebird have the ceramic pups. The Flying V has Alnico II magnets. What can I say? I've already got a semi hollow body, an SG and 2 LP's so I started looking at the Johnny Winter shape which led m to looking at the other odd shapes. If I get another Gibson it won't have ceramic pups. Look closely folks!! :cautious:


Nothing wrong with ceramic pickups. I actually just switched out my Duncan Antiquities with a vintage NOS set of mid 70's Dimarzios, a ceramic Super Distortion in the bridge and an alnico 5 magnet PAF. I like the way they sound much better than my Antiquities. Just the sound that pleases my ear. I know most prefer the alnico pickups, and I like them too, but in my Les Paul, the Dimarzios work.

Since I always like to try different pickups anyway, I don't really care what pickups come stock. Everyone has a different ideal tone so the lower price for the guitar, the few extra bucks you have to customize the pickups to your liking.

Me personally, I'm paying for the wood and the finish. Pickups, tuners, bridges, etc can all be changed rather easily. I've learned I like nitro finishes, especially aged or satin finishes.
 

mountain man

Still got the Blues!
Nothing wrong with ceramic pickups. I actually just switched out my Duncan Antiquities with a vintage NOS set of mid 70's Dimarzios, a ceramic Super Distortion in the bridge and an alnico 5 magnet PAF. I like the way they sound much better than my Antiquities. Just the sound that pleases my ear. I know most prefer the alnico pickups, and I like them too, but in my Les Paul, the Dimarzios work.

Since I always like to try different pickups anyway, I don't really care what pickups come stock. Everyone has a different ideal tone so the lower price for the guitar, the few extra bucks you have to customize the pickups to your liking.

Me personally, I'm paying for the wood and the finish. Pickups, tuners, bridges, etc can all be changed rather easily. I've learned I like nitro finishes, especially aged or satin finishes.
Fair enough. I had an SG with ceramic pups with the ability to switch to single coil. I never did warm up to those pups and sold the guitar (it also had some other paint decal features that I would have to repaint the guitar to get rid of). My Jeff Beck Artist Strat and has Ceramic noiseless pups and I like that guitar. But it's got a different purpose for me.
 

cowboy

Blues, Booze & BBQ
Gibson, along with most of the major manufacturers, is overpriced...after all, a guitar is a slab or two of wood with a few electronics added...with today's cnc machines, there is really no reason for a quality control issue, truly hand-made is another issue...if you want to make it really pretty (think those flamed, tigered, quilted tops, etc.)...then the price will really climb...add in the "high tech" electronics and raise the price some more...but in the end, most all guitar are still a slab of wood with a pickup or two...a couple of questions:

1) why is that simple inexpensive flat slab telecaster still used by a ton or professional players?
2) why do the major manufacturers require the local mom & pop store to spend a min $100,000 a year to carry inventory?

if you've got the money and want to spend it, then go for it...somewhere some builder will really love you...

and yes, I'm the guy who WILL and has spent the money on boutique gear like my Gibson LP and Nace amp but they don't make me sound much better than my Monoprice and POS tele...something to do with my hands and brain...or lack of...;)...later.

cowboy
 

Jalapeno

Student Of The Blues
...a couple of questions:

Cool, I love the quizzes members post on this forum. :) I'll play...

1) why is that simple inexpensive flat slab telecaster still used by a ton or professional players?

Most likely it's endorsements. In a lot of cases it may be sentimental or they found the perfect guitar but I suspect when a pro is playing a particular guiar in public these days it is due to endorsement contracts. There isn't any money in selling plastic discs anymore. A friends son is a pro drummer and has a contract with Dream cymbals. Privately he hates them and uses Zyldjian in the studio and at home but on the road or when he is doing clinics he has to use Dream cymbals. Same with the drum sticks, he has a contract with Vater and has to use their sticks.

2) why do the major manufacturers require the local mom & pop store to spend a min $100,000 a year to carry inventory?

Guitar Center is larger than Gibson, Fender, Gretsch, PRS etc. combined. Either mom & pop get with the program or get out of the way. Which is more profitable, supplying one vendor with 100,000 guitars or 25,000 vendors with 4 guitars?

Did I win? :)
 
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kestrou

Blooze Noobie
Gibson, along with most of the major manufacturers, is overpriced...after all, a guitar is a slab or two of wood with a few electronics added...with today's cnc machines, there is really no reason for a quality control issue, truly hand-made is another issue...if you want to make it really pretty (think those flamed, tigered, quilted tops, etc.)...then the price will really climb...add in the "high tech" electronics and raise the price some more...but in the end, most all guitar are still a slab of wood with a pickup or two...a couple of questions:

Wilbur,

Those CNC machines sure are great at cutting the bodies and necks - but nobody is automated for the finish work...

By hand, every guitar has to be sanded, sprayed, sanded again, buffed, electronics installed (tiny screws, soldering), frets installed, neck and body assembled, strung up, then set up.

If you're doing a run of 10,000 identical (Monoprice) guitars, and using a poly finish that doesn't require (much) polishing, then you can squeeze that labor down.

Keep in mind that the distributors get a big bite of the price as well. That guitar with a street price of 2,000 sold to the store for around $1,000. Gibson, or whoever, isn't getting the whole $2,000 when a guitar sells.

For many manufacturers, the "direct cost-of-goods" is about 50% of their selling price - meaning that 50% of what they sell for can be directly attributable to the item (material, manufacturing labor, those expensive CNC machines and other equipment, etc) - and the other 50% is overhead and expenses (engineering and sales, advertising, taxes, and, yes, about 10% profit).

I don't know the numbers for Gibson, or even the US guitar manufacturing industry, but am sure that's in the ballpark - so that $2,000 guitar hanging at Guitar Center has about $500 "direct cost" in it. Does that sound about right to you? It does to me...

Because, again consider the labor in that - how many hours you going to get (and still have money to buy the actual slab of wood - rosewood for the fretboard! - and electronics) for your $500 manufacturing cost? Using labor rates from 2012 (see here: http://www.bls.gov/fls/ichcc.htm), the average US manufacturing wage is about $20 - put benefits and taxes on top of that and you're over $35 an hour. Now look at The Phillipines, where the complete cost is only $2.10 an hour!

That's why those import guitars are so much less expensive...

Kevin
 

Chuck

Moderator (One of the Men in Black!)
Staff member
I am a Field Engineer that works with with Automated Packaging Equipment. When we sell parts, our standard mark-up is 100% of cost. On proprietary parts and equipment,the markup is much more and has Labor and materials figured into the costs.

My company deals with manufacturers and producers of products and here where I am at it is primarily related to the Food and Pharmaceutical industry.

I guess what I'm saying is, just be happy my company doesn't make the Guitar you want, and be happy you aren't calling me in for a set-up!:eek:
 
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