Stairway Plagarism Poll

Did Jimmy Page steal Stairway Intro

  • Yes - Hang him high!

    Votes: 4 13.8%
  • Nope - The estate of Randy California are money grubbers!

    Votes: 25 86.2%

  • Total voters
    29

PapaRaptor

Father Vyvian O'Blivion
Staff member
I think this one is even more frivolous than Joe Satriani's suit against Coldplay about 8 years ago. That one alleged that Coldplay's "Viva La Vida" infringed on Satriani's "If I Could Fly."
I think this suit is based on the fact that Page and Plant have been so careless about ripping off the old blues masters, that their character is already suspect.
 
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kestrou

Blooze Noobie
I think this one is even more frivolous than Joe Satriani's suit against Coldplay about 8 years ago. That one alleged that Coldplay's "Viva La Vida" infringed on Satriani's "If I Could Fly."
Well, that claim covered pretty much the whole song, not just the intro - and I think was more justified than a "descending A minor chromatic fingerpicked intro".

I think this suit is based on the fact that Page and Plant have been so careless about ripping off the old blues masters, that their character is already suspect.
No doubt Page/Plant weren't crediting the songs - but they were mostly ripping off Willie Dixon, who had himself ripped off the songs by just penciling in his name as the author! :)

Kevin
 

PapaRaptor

Father Vyvian O'Blivion
Staff member
Well, that claim covered pretty much the whole song, not just the intro - and I think was more justified than a "descending A minor chromatic fingerpicked intro".


No doubt Page/Plant weren't crediting the songs - but they were mostly ripping off Willie Dixon, who had himself ripped off the songs by just penciling in his name as the author! :)

Kevin

I thought Satriani's had much more merit, until I heard a tune (can't remember who did it) made several years before Satriani that sounded a whole lot like "If I Could Fly." And of course Cat Stevens thought he wrote it before either of them.
 

Mira

Blues Newbie
I wrote a letter in 1982, and J.K. Rowling used 3 of the same words I used in that letter when she wrote Harry Potter. Can I sue her?
 

Momantai

Red nose, red guitar
If Stairway to heaven wasn't such a hit none of this would happen. Do I smell some jealousy or greed ?
 

Terry B

Humble student of the blues
Pretty well all money grabbers, the biggest tip off is when preceded by "the estate of..." My guess is this Randy guy didn't sue while he was alive because, being a musician himself he knew he didn't own the major scale or any certain chords.
 
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Elio

Student Of The Blues
I wrote a letter in 1982, and J.K. Rowling used 3 of the same words I used in that letter when she wrote Harry Potter. Can I sue her?

Don't be ridiculous, the statute of limitations has probably expired. If you had been a bit quicker you probably would have had an excellent case! :sneaky:
 

Jalapeno

Student Of The Blues
After watching that - what's your opinion?

Kevin

My opinion is that, as usual, musicians are clueless. Apparently, and I admit to not watching his follow up videos which might address this, Mr. TJR never heard of the Blurred Lines law suit.






Mr. TJR needs to do more than just musical analysis to understand copyright infringement.

Now, throwing this out for discussion, watch these videos

Led Zepplin from 1969


Small Faces from 1966


After listening to that, what's your opinion of Jimmy Page as a song writer?
 

Elio

Student Of The Blues
My opinion is that, as usual, musicians are clueless. Apparently, and I admit to not watching his follow up videos which might address this, Mr. TJR never heard of the Blurred Lines law suit.

I watched the video again and I don't believe that TJR rendered an opinion as to whether or not it was plagiarized. He simply compared the two from a musical standpoint, not a legal standpoint. I wouldn't label him as clueless.
 

Chuck

Moderator (One of the Men in Black!)
Staff member
I don't like to use the word "Steal" for what we do while playing. Everybody borrows parts, phrases, Licks and sometimes chord progressions from everybody else at times. It's the way things have always been done. I haven't read the details of the actual lawsuit but usually, one can follow the money and it usually uncovers the motivation.
 

Al Holloway

Devizes UK
At most you could say Page may have been influenced by the song. Maybe he had heard it a while before and thought it an interesting concept to explore. However the rest of the songs are so different I don't think the whole work can be seen as plagiarised. My BMW is black should they pay copyright to Henry ford for the concept of black cars?

cheers

Al.
 

Bernie Fitz

Blues Junior
My opinion is that, as usual, musicians are clueless. Apparently, and I admit to not watching his follow up videos which might address this, Mr. TJR never heard of the Blurred Lines law suit.






Mr. TJR needs to do more than just musical analysis to understand copyright infringement.

Now, throwing this out for discussion, watch these videos

Led Zepplin from 1969


Small Faces from 1966


After listening to that, what's your opinion of Jimmy Page as a song writer?
Or you could go back a bit further and listen to Muddy Water's version. I'm not sure if the name of the song by Muddy was "Whole Lotta Love" or not but it is the same tune and lyrics.
 

Jalapeno

Student Of The Blues
At most you could say Page may have been influenced by the song. Maybe he had heard it a while before and thought it an interesting concept to explore. However the rest of the songs are so different I don't think the whole work can be seen as plagiarised. My BMW is black should they pay copyright to Henry ford for the concept of black cars?

cheers

Al.

Well, it's more than that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_Lotta_Love

I think what makes the Blurred Lines ruling/verdict so interesting is that the Gaye families suit was based on the sheet music and not the recording. The songs do not sound alike, they do not share much in common except one section where the sheet music is similar. It does not matter that the songs are different because the verdict is partly based on that they have the same "feel" and they share printed music that looks similar.

This is new because musicians have always assumed that if you change a couple of notes that it is a new song, or, we can cop things because its always been done this way. If this verdict is not overturned on appeal then it will have far reaching implications. Musicians always seem to think that the music business is about the music, but it isn't. I hope Jimmy and Robert didn't spend all their earnings because they may be paying out a lot of money because, from what I hear, Stairway to heaven has more in common with Taurus than Blurred lines has in common with Got to give it up.

I wonder if they are watching these cases closely in Nashville where they rip each other off constantly?
 

Jalapeno

Student Of The Blues
I watched the video again and I don't believe that TJR rendered an opinion as to whether or not it was plagiarized. He simply compared the two from a musical standpoint, not a legal standpoint. I wouldn't label him as clueless.

Well, I respect your opinion but the Blurred Lines verdict shows that the musical standpoint is not fixed in stone. I think musicians need to stop thinking the music business is about music. It never has been. Of course, that's my opinion, but based on a fair amount of research.
 

kestrou

Blooze Noobie
Well, I respect your opinion but the Blurred Lines verdict shows that the musical standpoint is not fixed in stone. I think musicians need to stop thinking the music business is about music. It never has been. Of course, that's my opinion, but based on a fair amount of research.

Hot Pepper - you're correct on both counts...

And if anybody has dealt with the courts much - facts and truth have nothing to do with the final verdicts - it's a coin toss by either a judge or jury, who don't have to have expertise in a subject matter to decide it...

Kevin
 

OG_Blues

Guitar Geezer
And if anybody has dealt with the courts much - facts and truth have nothing to do with the final verdicts - it's a coin toss by either a judge or jury, who don't have to have expertise in a subject matter to decide it...
Kevin
You sure got that right Kevin. Long ago, my company was involved in a trivial employment lawsuit. Our attorney said that "we couldn't lose".
As soon as the judge walked in the courtroom, our attorney said "Oh crap, we're screwed!" He was correct on the second count - heavily biased liberal judge who didn't really care what the law said.

I recall seeing a couple different analysis of Clapton's solo in "Sunshine of Your Love" where they claimed it started with a "quote" from the old song "Blue Moon". Well, yes, the notes are exactly the same. Personally I have a very hard time believing that Clapton was standing there thinking to himself, "I think I'll start this solo with a quote from 'Blue Moon' ". More likely - pure accident - he just invented the same phrase by himself at a later point in time. He didn't get sued for it as far as I know.
A lot of this kind of stuff is frivolous IMO.
Tom
 
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