Amps Tone Master amps: Deluxe or Twin?

Discussion in 'Gear Talk' started by MarkDyson, Nov 9, 2019.

  1. MarkDyson

    MarkDyson Blues Hound Wannabe

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    Loving the reviews and demos of the new Fender Tone Master amps; it seems to my level of hearing ability they've nailed the "tube tone" more than well enough, and without the fragility and heft of the original model amps.

    I'm pondering a sibling for my Nace, one that I'd be less nervous about something happening to, and these amps are strong contenders. My question is, for the extra hundred bucks why not skip over the Deluxe and go right for the Twin? Are there compelling arguments against that? I know that in this pack of enablers I'm just as likely to be advised, "get both," but wanted to open the floor for related discussion.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. sloslunas

    sloslunas NM Blues

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    Get both...

    Steve
     
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  3. Crossroads

    Crossroads Thump the Bottom

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    What he said
     
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  4. CaptainMoto

    CaptainMoto Blues Voyager

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    I'd say the key factors would be clean headroom and moving air..
    If they truly behave like the tube versions, the Deluxe will break up sooner then the Twin.
    There will not be a huge difference in total volume though.
    My guess is, for most smaller venues, that you're likely to play in, either one will be way more volume then you'll need.
    I'd further guess, that you won't be relying on the amps for your break up tone anyways.
    Once you start running O/D pedals into them it won't make any difference which one you pick because the amp tone will be clean and the O/D pedal will give you the crunch you'll want.

    If you think your future will have you on a big stage that accepts loud amps for big audiences, get the Twin because the 2 X 12s will push more air to fill bigger spaces.
    Having said that, if you're looking for less weight and more portability the Twin takes you in the wrong direction.
     
    #4 CaptainMoto, Nov 9, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
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  5. mountain man

    mountain man Still got the Blues!

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    I have as 25/50 watt Marshall Silver Anniversary issue twin. It's an awesome amp. It weighs a ton. It was heavy and awkward to handle when I bought it brand new and I was 25 years old and in the gym lifting weights all the time. These days at 62 I don't move it anywhere......... I'd sooner bring my Carvin Vintage Nomad 50 watt and a cab If I have to play out and I need 50 watts and two speakers......... Even if you have a good hand truck you have to lift up 4 times to put it in and out of the vehicle to get it to the gig and back home.......... And who knows how you have to jostle it around to get it on and around the stage........
     
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  6. paparaptor

    paparaptor Central Scrutinizer
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    @BigRigSteve just added the Twin Reverb to his arsenal (in the truck, no less). He had the Deluxe and then went back and swapped for the Twin. With the power control on them and the ability to attenuate the amps down to a watt or less, I think you would be happy with either one.

    If I was in the market for one, I would go with the Deluxe. Of course, if I was given my choice of anything, I would have two of these:
    [​IMG]
    and I'd re-cover one of them in pink tolex. I think @MikeS has one of these...
     
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  7. MarkDyson

    MarkDyson Blues Hound Wannabe

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    This is an excellent point, and one I'm pondering. The few times I've schlepped the Nace to a venue I've plugged in direct and I've liked the freedom of not having pedals to deal with. I know it's fewer toys to play with and all that, but still. The Twin might be harder to get a good breakup, though the attenuator control it has also would help there. One demo the guys had the volume up to eight but the output down to 5 watts and it sounded pretty good (and they remarked that at full wattage they'd quickly be deaf).

    If there were a significant cost difference methinks I'd go right for the Deluxe but, for just a hundred bucks extra, it has me wondering why not just go for it.
     
  8. MarkDyson

    MarkDyson Blues Hound Wannabe

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    Matter of fact, that change on his part helped prompt my looking at the Twin instead of just going right to the Deluxe. :Beer:
     
  9. Crossroads

    Crossroads Thump the Bottom

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    Those unit have built in attenuators so yo should be able to drive the power tubes in any venue without blowing out the windows.
     
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  10. CaptainMoto

    CaptainMoto Blues Voyager

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    Sounds like you're aiming for the Twin.
    Go for it!
    When you really want to fill a venue and never use a pedal, take the Nace and the Twin.
     
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  11. mountain man

    mountain man Still got the Blues!

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    Am I missing something? I googled "Fender Tone Master amp" and it's a SS amp. I thought you said you like all tube amps? SS amps are much lighter....... I still have no idea why you need 100 or 200 watts......... even when considering headroom.
     
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  12. Crossroads

    Crossroads Thump the Bottom

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    Good Point. I thought they were hybrids.

    If it's all DSP why would you need an attenuator?

    For that matter why would you....never mind.
     
  13. paparaptor

    paparaptor Central Scrutinizer
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    Sweetwater's page says, "100-watt solid-state amp packs SPLs comparable to the 22-watt tube classic," for the Deluxe and "200-watt solid-state amp packs SPLs comparable to the 85-watt tube classic," for the Twin.
    Fender's page says, "Using a high-performance 100-watt digital power amp to achieve the headroom and dynamic range of a real vintage Deluxe tube amp," and virtually identical verbiage on the Twin Reverb Tone Master page.

    My guess is that you need the additional headroom so the DSP can emulate the breakup of a tube power stage. The power amp section has to stay clean over its entire power spectrum.
     
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  14. mountain man

    mountain man Still got the Blues!

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    OK, I didn't read that much about it. I was thinking that a 50 watt SS would be more like their 22 watt all tube amp....... They should just call it a 22 watt amp instead of 100 watts..........
     
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  15. paparaptor

    paparaptor Central Scrutinizer
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    That would spoil one of their marketing bullet points!

    I would also be willing to bet the Neodynium speakers are less efficient than whatever Fender is putting in the tube versions.
     
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  16. MarkDyson

    MarkDyson Blues Hound Wannabe

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    Yeah, they're SS amps designed to "exactly" model the vintage/reissue versions without the weight/fragility/stuff-to-break of those. I'm far from well-versed in how the wattage stuff works but, as I understand it, SS watts are like dog years as compared to tube watts. :confused:

    I was originally thinking about one of the Fender re-issues, then these things popped up on my radar and the more I've looked into them the better a deal they seem. The Deluxe would probably be more than enough for me but, for just an extra hunnert bucks, I'm trying to come up with a reason NOT to just upsell to the Twin (plus the Twin has those nifty tilt-back legs).
     
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  17. mountain man

    mountain man Still got the Blues!

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    I still hope that Art Nace decides to come back and build a 50 watt version of the Pro-18. I'd buy the head in a heartbeat! :Beer:
     
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  18. MarkDyson

    MarkDyson Blues Hound Wannabe

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    I have until the end of November to decide: that's when my local shop gets two Twins in stock and they'll hold one for me. Fender's sold out through the end of the year but these were an early back order. They have a couple of Deluxe they just got in this past week though....
     
  19. artyman

    artyman Fareham UK

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    Depends on what is important,r for me more recently it is the weight
     
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  20. Crossroads

    Crossroads Thump the Bottom

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    Sounds like a bunch of marketing doo-doo to me.

    Using DSP and no tubes means clean headroom is really just a question of what the SS power amp and the speakers can handle before distorting, Kinda like your car stereo or PA.
    It really has nothing to do with simulated power tube breakup. That can remain constant from 1 to 10,000.

    The DSP can process the same simulated pre amp and power amp breakup at any volume. (One of the advantages of DSP). Now you just need a power amp to increase the volume. And I realize you know this @paparaptor , but for those that might not.

    Attenuator switch? This just seems to fit the retro design of the amp. IMO it's a Fugazy. But if it plays good and you like it, who cares?

    On a separate not I wish we would get away from using watts as a measurement of how loud we perceive an amp to be. Who cares what the power consumption is especially in a class D power amp?

    How loud it is a much more important matter.
     
    #20 Crossroads, Nov 9, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019