Starting to work on Griff's suggestion
- Thread starter MikeS
- Start date
Paleo
Student Of The Blues
'Cause C Major is the "parent" scale. Going to C makes is sound like you were descending the C Major scale, which you ear is probably more accustomed to, even though you started on D.
Stopping on D would sound like you were descending a D Dorian scale.
If you continued down to A it would sound like you had been playing A Aeolian.
Your ear will tend to register the last note it hears when just playing a scale.
Playing over a D chord, stopping on C wouldn't sound "right". It's the b7.
Similar to pentatonic boxes. Are they Major or minor?
Chords always win.
May be a blog post on the horizon?
Stopping on D would sound like you were descending a D Dorian scale.
If you continued down to A it would sound like you had been playing A Aeolian.
Your ear will tend to register the last note it hears when just playing a scale.
Playing over a D chord, stopping on C wouldn't sound "right". It's the b7.
Similar to pentatonic boxes. Are they Major or minor?
Chords always win.
May be a blog post on the horizon?
Last edited:
Yep... probably what @Paleo said, or it may be rhythmic. But remember that C Major sound is a STRONG pull... so maybe record a Dminor chord on a loop just so that you can keep your ear centered. A lot of times with modes, it helps to play the chord behind it.
Yeah, I'll definitely try recording a loop.
I don't know if besides "sounding" like it should go to C, maybe the pattern feels like it should too. The loop[ should help me figure that one out.
Paleo
Student Of The Blues
I hadn’t even thought about the rhythmic aspect 'til Griff mentioned it.
So I thought I'd spend a little more time on this since I always learn something more, myself.
(If you don't feel like wading through this, skip down to the link at the end.)
I was wondering if you were actually counting it the way you wrote it when you play it.
If so, you could just stop on D and “rest” the rest of the measure.
But ending on D you would only use 2 counts in the last measure.
And you were playing groups of 4, so maybe you want 2 more notes.
These could be down to C and back up to D, for a final group of 4, then 3 beats of rest.
Or you could add some more notes and go back up a couple and back down to D, just to fill out the measure.
Something just to finally hear it end on D.
But I don’t see any rhythmic reason to stop on C.
Then I looked at how high up you were going.
You were going to the top of the “Box”, two notes past the D on the 1st string. So you’re actually going from D at the bottom to F at the top.
This is something that drove me crazy for years about “Boxes”. They always start and end on different notes. (This might also affect how you practice them rhythmically.)
So, the Dorian “Box” has 17 notes, D to F.
Playing 2 octaves of the scale from D to D would be 15 notes.
Playing 16th notes neither would come out “even”, i.e. 2 complete measures.
However, If you stopped at E at the top you’d have an even 16 notes up per measure and 16 notes back down.
(But would be playing from D to E.)
Anyway, I think Griff’s point was to get the fingering and movements in the Box under your fingers.
Maybe writing in 16th notes makes you want to rhythmically add “extra” notes at the end, but there’s no reason to necessarily end on C.
I think it’s more probably your ear. When you get used to the Dorian sound, stopping on D will sound just as “natural”.
And personally, I think trying to make sense of Modes without playing over any chords may never make sense to anybody.
And just talking doesn't help much either, so here's a brief demo.
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/t9xkfhr0bm22qll/Dorian.mp4?dl=0
(@1:20 I say "2 beats" when I mean "2 counts".)
So I thought I'd spend a little more time on this since I always learn something more, myself.
(If you don't feel like wading through this, skip down to the link at the end.)
I was wondering if you were actually counting it the way you wrote it when you play it.
If so, you could just stop on D and “rest” the rest of the measure.
But ending on D you would only use 2 counts in the last measure.
And you were playing groups of 4, so maybe you want 2 more notes.
These could be down to C and back up to D, for a final group of 4, then 3 beats of rest.
Or you could add some more notes and go back up a couple and back down to D, just to fill out the measure.
Something just to finally hear it end on D.
But I don’t see any rhythmic reason to stop on C.
Then I looked at how high up you were going.
You were going to the top of the “Box”, two notes past the D on the 1st string. So you’re actually going from D at the bottom to F at the top.
This is something that drove me crazy for years about “Boxes”. They always start and end on different notes. (This might also affect how you practice them rhythmically.)
So, the Dorian “Box” has 17 notes, D to F.
Playing 2 octaves of the scale from D to D would be 15 notes.
Playing 16th notes neither would come out “even”, i.e. 2 complete measures.
However, If you stopped at E at the top you’d have an even 16 notes up per measure and 16 notes back down.
(But would be playing from D to E.)
Anyway, I think Griff’s point was to get the fingering and movements in the Box under your fingers.
Maybe writing in 16th notes makes you want to rhythmically add “extra” notes at the end, but there’s no reason to necessarily end on C.
I think it’s more probably your ear. When you get used to the Dorian sound, stopping on D will sound just as “natural”.
And personally, I think trying to make sense of Modes without playing over any chords may never make sense to anybody.
And just talking doesn't help much either, so here's a brief demo.
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/t9xkfhr0bm22qll/Dorian.mp4?dl=0
(@1:20 I say "2 beats" when I mean "2 counts".)
Last edited:
So, recently I heard Laura refer to playing a scale "full range," and I asked her what that meant...
On a saxophone (and any other one dimensional instrument... piano, etc.) if you play a C Major Scale from C to C, you're playing one octave, from C to C to C would be 2 octaves, etc.
But to play "full range" means to play all of the notes playable on the instrument in that key. So you'd start on C, go down to the lowest possible note you can play and still be in the key of C, then back up all the way to the top of the range of the instrument, and return to C.
I've sort of adopted the term "full position" from that - playing all of the notes in a given scale, in a given position... feel free to use that term from here on out
-- also ---
What I meant by rhythmic sense is that your ear might naturally want to hear the D on a certain beat, and in @MikeS's case, the last note, the D, was on the off beat, which would be very unsatisfying. Perhaps the C was not only helping harmonically, but putting the last note on a beat that felt more settled?
On a saxophone (and any other one dimensional instrument... piano, etc.) if you play a C Major Scale from C to C, you're playing one octave, from C to C to C would be 2 octaves, etc.
But to play "full range" means to play all of the notes playable on the instrument in that key. So you'd start on C, go down to the lowest possible note you can play and still be in the key of C, then back up all the way to the top of the range of the instrument, and return to C.
I've sort of adopted the term "full position" from that - playing all of the notes in a given scale, in a given position... feel free to use that term from here on out
-- also ---
What I meant by rhythmic sense is that your ear might naturally want to hear the D on a certain beat, and in @MikeS's case, the last note, the D, was on the off beat, which would be very unsatisfying. Perhaps the C was not only helping harmonically, but putting the last note on a beat that felt more settled?
snarf
making guitars wish they were still trees
That gets me to thinking. We generally practice/play a box or a box + 2 or 3 with the eventual goal being able to traverse boxes without having to think about it, but I don't recall really anything in the curriculum that does a long scale like that. We don't generally practice those big scales that start way down low on the fretboard and end way up in the teeny frets. When would you normally have a student start practicing that kind of scale like G starting on the 6th string 3rd fret and goes to the 1st string 15th fret (or higher)? Or is that something that you don't really feel is needed?So, recently I heard Laura refer to playing a scale "full range," and I asked her what that meant...
On a saxophone (and any other one dimensional instrument... piano, etc.) if you play a C Major Scale from C to C, you're playing one octave, from C to C to C would be 2 octaves, etc.
But to play "full range" means to play all of the notes playable on the instrument in that key. So you'd start on C, go down to the lowest possible note you can play and still be in the key of C, then back up all the way to the top of the range of the instrument, and return to C.
I've sort of adopted the term "full position" from that - playing all of the notes in a given scale, in a given position... feel free to use that term from here on out
And I guess I should clarify. In that previous paragraph, "we" = "me". Maybe I'm not doing something I should be.
So, recently I heard Laura refer to playing a scale "full range," and I asked her what that meant...
On a saxophone (and any other one dimensional instrument... piano, etc.) if you play a C Major Scale from C to C, you're playing one octave, from C to C to C would be 2 octaves, etc.
But to play "full range" means to play all of the notes playable on the instrument in that key. So you'd start on C, go down to the lowest possible note you can play and still be in the key of C, then back up all the way to the top of the range of the instrument, and return to C.
I've sort of adopted the term "full position" from that - playing all of the notes in a given scale, in a given position... feel free to use that term from here on out
-- also ---
What I meant by rhythmic sense is that your ear might naturally want to hear the D on a certain beat, and in @MikeS's case, the last note, the D, was on the off beat, which would be very unsatisfying. Perhaps the C was not only helping harmonically, but putting the last note on a beat that felt more settled?
Yep, I'm certain that it's both not hearing the D chord. I tried looping a D and it sounded better to my ear but still left me expecting another note, So I'm sure that the fact that it ended on the wrong beat is part of what I'm sensing too. I think I'll try changing the two highest notes to eighth notes and see if it "Feels" better. I know none of this has anything to do with getting the scale under my fingers (other than ensuring that I wrote it correctly, IT was just something I noticed and was wondering about.
What you're describing, however, requires getting out of one position - so it's not the same thing as what I'm describing.
If, however, you want to practice playing around like that, use the 2+3, 3+2, or 2 strings per box ideas in the Rut Busters course... there is MUCH fun to be had with that stuff.
Similarly you could tweedly the top note...
OR...
START the scale off beat 1! (practice starting off beat 1 and get it to sound right with one swell foop!)