Soldering

[Silicon Valley Tom]

Tom, I have nothing but respect for you. You have always given sage advice and I value the contributions you've made, and continue to make to this forum. But I'm at a loss as to why you would say not to ever use flux when soldering electronics.

I've been soldering since I was a kid, and weather it's a rosin core solder, or a flux free solder with a seperate flux, in some manner flux is always involved. Even the article you linked to indicates that there is a flux core in most modern solders.

Yes, flux for copper pipes is not the same,
And should not be used on electronics. But electronics soldering flux is meant for soldering electronics. It is produced, marketed, and sold for that purpose.

Perhaps I misunderstood your post, and you simply meant to say not to use plumbing flux on electronics. But it looks like you're saying no flux at all, and with most modern solder that's just impossible.

I mean no disrespect, just trying to understand.

I have been soldering since I was 5 years old. If my dad was still alive, he would verify that statement!

One of my hobbies as a kid was electronics. I built many things, including short wave receivers, and got into amateur radio as WA6FCO (1958). I was a student at Poly High Lux Lab, the most advanced electronics lab in public schools in the United States. After a few years in the Air Force, I found myself at Dalmo Victor, in Belmont, California. We worked on radar systems for the F-111, and APOLLO/LEM. I was certified and allowed to solder by NASA. Not a easy task! I was an electronics technician at that time, while attending engineering college at night.

I built many computers (S-100 bus), which required thousands of soldered connections. People around me could not believe how fast I could solder components into a PC board. At the time I was a manager at AMPEX, in the Calibration/Metrology Laboratory. That was a fun job!

Along the way I build so many things for electronics, including but not limited to amplifiers, receivers, transmitters, satellite receivers ( I was one of the members of the first group which included satellite communications) Radio Teletype, and the list goes on.

Yes, I do nave some background with soldering. Solder must have a proper flux core, but not some type of external paste. I could teach you how to solder (I have a good deal of proper equipment) and wish I could do so for members of this forum or anyone interested.

By the way, I have equipment I built in the late 1950's that still works. The soldered connections are still bright. The flow of the solder is so important. How much heat, and how to apply it is important. But don't take my ford for it - just use a solder gun, get out your solder flux, and have at it!

Tom

 

[MarkDyson]

In high school I took typing, on an actual typewriter. I think we were transcribing from papyrus scrolls.

We had IBM Selectrics. The ones with the metal golf ball studded with letters.

 

[MarkDyson]

Typing is the only course I ever got an F in

I figured out how to game the grading system. Type enough volume to qualify for a C, with few enough errors to get an A there, and end up with a B for the test. When I hit the C level of words typed I'd just stop. Plus, lots and LOTS of girls around me every day.

 

[blackcoffeeblues]

Clean surface-and clean solder--I have always used rosin/flux core solder- the thinnest diameter I can find. The thinner the better. The thicker the solder--the more heat it takes to melt. The larger the piece of metal you are soldering to also requires more heat. For instance the ground wire on your Strat that goes to the spring tree of the tremelo.is a big piece of metal that absorbs a lot of heat. If you use a larger tip soldering iron
on the big pieces it works much better. I have 3 soldering irons.with different size tips--small-medium-large. Small as you can get for pot lugs-..
To do it right all old solder should be removed---You can remove that buy fluxing a piece of cooper wire hold it on the old solder and heating it up then it will melt the solder and it will transfer to the copper wire (but you still have to sand/scrape the surface). The braided ground wires can be a pain in the butt. A larger tipped soldering iron should be used. JMOP

 

[JestMe]

Yeah, that was a long time ago. We had classes in stone tablets when I was in school.

LOL... Man those school bags were heavy carrying them to and from school... and all uphill... both ways to and from! ;-)

Thanks! I needed a little humor!

 

[PapaRaptor]

I still have a good portion of a 2 lb. spool of extremely thin solder I carried in my toolbox back in the 70's when I was doing two way radio work. It's 60/40 tin/lead so be warned if I work on your guitar, it is NOT ROHS compliant!

 

[tommytubetone]

Typing is the only course I ever got an F in

I didn't get an F, but it was tough competing against all the girls that wanted to be secretaries.

 

[PapaRaptor]

I didn't get an F, but it was tough competing against all the girls that wanted to be secretaries.

My dad had a typewriter and taught me how to type way before typing was available to me in school (junior high). I took the course for an easy A. It turned out I had developed an extremely bad habit of overstriking whenever I made a mistake. My typing teacher was a real stickler and overstrikes were a pet peeve of hers. She announced to the class within the first day or two that an overstrike on a class lesson was an automatic F.

The bad habit was so ingrained, that I did it before I realized what I had done. Needless to say, what I thought was an easy A turned out to be a very frustrating D.

 

[Bill_B]

I only saw it mentioned twice, but it is critical. Make sure it's a rosin core solder or flux, and not acid. I have both types laying around, so you may also.

 

[MarkDyson]

I didn't get an F, but it was tough competing against meeting all the girls that wanted to be secretaries.

Fixed it for ya.

 

[DesmoDog]

Doesn't mean much since my soldering experience is pretty limited compared to a lot of people here, but I've never used any additional flux either. Brazing, yes, plumbing, yes, but not electronics. Guitars, point to point tube amps, PCB tube amp, various other stuff throughout the years. One of my motorcycles unsoldered a component in it's ECU once but I didn't put that one together, so not my fault! Well, kind of my fault since I didn't monitor the voltage going into it like I should have, but still. Two lessons learned that afternoon - A) lithium batteries require (working) modern regulators plus a voltage montior and B) you can not remove the fairing from a Ducati 851 using only the factory tool kit that fits under the seat. It was an exciting afternoon and you'd be surprised how much smoke those new fangled little batteries have in them.

BTW my dad was a metal shop teacher so I got started pretty young.

 

[MikeS]

You can ruin a pot with too much heat. I know a guy who's done it several times.

You need an iron that has higher wattage than what you need for lugs. Sometimes I melt some solder with the tip, just to help it conduct the heat top the pot back.

I use my chop stick to hold it all down while the solder cools.

Damn! I wish I had thought of chop sticks! When there's a big dollop of solder it's almost impossible to keep everything still enough for the solder to set right. Chop Sticks will do the trick! Thanks!

 

[MikeS]

Speaking of equipment, my soldering iron has two settings 20w and 40w. The 20 w setting works fine for wires & lugs as long as I let it heat up till it smokes & hold it on the lug fro 2-3 seconds. I could not get the 20w to heat the pot enough though at all and even the 40w didn't really do the trick in short enough time that I wasn't afraid of overheating the pot.

 

[zwantedone]

Doesn't mean much since my soldering experience is pretty limited compared to a lot of people here, but I've never used any additional flux either. Brazing, yes, plumbing, yes, but not electronics. Guitars, point to point tube amps, PCB tube amp, various other stuff throughout the years. One of my motorcycles unsoldered a component in it's ECU once but I didn't put that one together, so not my fault! Well, kind of my fault since I didn't monitor the voltage going into it like I should have, but still. Two lessons learned that afternoon - A) lithium batteries require (working) modern regulators plus a voltage montior and B) you can not remove the fairing from a Ducati 851 using only the factory tool kit that fits under the seat. It was an exciting afternoon and you'd be surprised how much smoke those new fangled little batteries have in them.

BTW my dad was a metal shop teacher so I got started pretty young.

I sat here for a minute, thinking about what you said about 851 fairing removal with Ducati supplied tool kit. I really don't think that can be done on any Ducati with a fairing. Not on any i have owned. On some it can be a monumental task...

 

[Silicon Valley Tom]

In high school I took typing, on an actual typewriter. I think we were transcribing from papyrus scrolls.

When I was 10, I became interested in using my mom's typewriter. I started a model train newsletter for the kids in my neighborhood. I used two fingers (the index of each finger) and could type 45 words per minute. When was 15, I took typing in high school, and to this day it gives me a laugh to remember after six weeks of typing class, I could type 45 words per minute! At the end of the semester I could type 65 wpm, which is my max speed even today.

Tom

 

[PapaBear]

I don't use additional flux, I do make sure everything is good and clean and would never use a soldering gun on electronics, I don't like the hair thin solder it's too hard to get it where you want it, main thing is a heated iron with a well tinned tip

 

[gpower]

I use my 100/140w gun for thicker metal soldering Mike.. flux and solid core solder.

 

[ronico]

Just curious but what's the thing about soldering guns? I have other alternatives and guess I may have gone with a myth, or not, and used an iron cuz I had oneBTW I'm with PapaBear. A well tinned tip is critical!

 

[PapaRaptor]

Just curious but what's the thing about soldering guns? I have other alternatives and guess I may have gone with a myth, or not, and used an iron cuz I had oneBTW I'm with PapaBear. A well tinned tip is critical!

I've wondered the same thing. As a geeky kid, I remember assembling several point to point wiring kits from Allied Radio of Chicago (Knight Kits) using a 100/140 watt Weller soldering gun. I knew several radio-TV repairmen who used nothing but soldering guns on point-to-point wiring. But I also remember seeing them pull out the soldering iron whenever they went to work on printed circuit boards.

I've used both on guitars and to me, a gun is more convenient. Then again, I used to use a small butane torch to solder PL-259 RF connectors. They had a lot of metal that had to be heated to make solder flow and you didn't want to have to climb a radio tower (always in the rain) to fix a cold solder joint.

 

[blackcoffeeblues]

I used to use a small butane torch to solder

That is what I use building my jewelry--and on larger pieces like belt buckle---large bracelets I use a propane torch--and in some cases I use both the propane and the butane. The sweat solder technique works pretty good on many projects. . Though the Soldering gun is convenient I could never get use to using one, to bulky.